I have read the scriptures through many times and I cannot find this concept in scripture
Please can anybody help me
I have read the scriptures through many times and I cannot find this concept in scripture
Please can anybody help me
That is a good point, Dom because there are many, many conditions to following Christ and obtaining salvation.
The bible talks about grace from God freely given, but nothing regarding anything unconditional. I think that has been inferred and probably has been the root of several false teachings.
Here are just a few of the many conditions that we may all want to take note of:
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
I guess it depends on whether you think God loves sinners or not. If that is not unconditional, then what is?
Here is just one example;
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(Romans 5:6-8)
Sounds unconditional to me.
In Christ,
unconditional love is not the same as unconditional salvation
by InTheLight on 2016/7/16 17:51:12Here is just one example;
For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(Romans 5:6-8)Sounds unconditional to me.
In Christ,
His death and sacrifice for us was definitely without condition on His part, yet to receive Him the first condition is belief/faith followed by repentance. Then there are a whole host of conditions if you want to walk with Him and have fellowship with Him.
unconditional love is not the same as unconditional salvation
Well said.
I have loved Jacob and hated esaw,, there seemed to be no unconditional love for esaw, as we see god had for jacob,,
God hates all thoses who do iniquity,,, the bible also says that
Also dieing for someone doesnt nesasarly mean one loves them unconditionally,,
I might die trying to save someonei dont love or dont even know , just because it was my duty ,or reaction to save some one ...
I might even hate some one yet still die trying to save them
Jesus dieng for the ungodly, does not mean nesasarly , that he loved all pedafiles and rapests, and massmuderes, unconditionaly ...
Also the elect come to mind that just as jacob was one of the elect ,so jesus also must love unconditionally those whom he new would benfit from his death ,paul is talking about when he said christ died for the ungodly, wile we were yet sinners .... Regardless of our view of election ,christs view was that he chose ,called ,fornew ,predestined,,,is uncondition love was manfeist to some definitely,, but some as the bible says ,were made to be caught and destroyed , like the false propherts.. The antichrist, and many others the gosple his hidden,jesus said he spoke in parables for that reason ,so that hearing they may not hear ,,
God resists the proud ,but gives grace to the humble .......
Grace is part of gods love manfest through the spirit ,which is the manfestation of gods love ,
The wrath of god is revealed from heaven ,against all ungodlness ,,,,,this is a manfestation of not love but a righeousness hate and anger ,hence the turning of people over to a debased mind to do those things which are not fitting...
Try this one, Gary.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
The "world" is not referring to planet earth but rather mankind, all of the terrible sinful people that make up mankind. He died for the Pharisees, as well.
Obviously that does not contradict the scriptures that say god hates all those who do iniquity , does it..
That scripture is speaking of a general love he has for his creation ,is says nothing about unconditional love , but refures to gods love to jews and Gentiles, obviously jews struggled with the idea that god had chosen to save some gentiles .....
The world if i rememer in greek was cosmos ,or that our world for cosmos comes from that world ,,,,and acualy it is speaking about the world rather then sinners in this instance ,,rember the whole of creation grones with labor pains now ,waiting for the revealing , of the sons of god ,it was subjuct to futiliy ,not willing ,but in hope ,,,, god loves the world
God is agape'. 1 john 4:8
Yes, Gary, you can find many scriptures that teach God hates sinners, yet you can find many that show Him loving sinners, too.
It seems contradictory, but it is not.
Julius so you're saying god loves and hates a sinner at the same time ,is that how you deal those scriptures??
My thing is leting the scripture interprate scripture ..
To start with no where in any parT of the bible to my knowledge,
A verse that say god loves and hates sinners , its not there,one would need to inject that statment, wich is dishonest,,.
But the bible does say god loved jacob and hated esaw,and the context was gods choice his election ,and it had nothing to do with works ,because the bible says the choice was made before they were born , so if see that prinicaple in action ,that makes it clear that god does do that , that can explain away the seeming contradictions........
Gary,
I think hating Esau is a relative expression and it only means that He loved Jacob more than Esau.
Luke 14:26King James Version (KJV)
26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
I think this verse means that you have to love God more than your wife etc. you are not required to actually hate them.
What you say about hating sinners... I have to think about that...
That verse regarding esaw shows no indacation that god ment to say that ,but god rejected esaw and alloud his birth right to be taken from him ,esaw was descibed in averry negative way by the apostals , not becasue god loved him less , also that esaw saw the wrath of god ,but jacob was blessed , paul compared him to one that ends up in hell, not being justafied ...
The verse jesus spoke was obviously not in that context ,our familys we are Comanded to look after ..
But esaw recieved no blessing from god , he said i hated ..
Jesus said unless you hate ,in an intirly differnt context ,, our familys were to be number one under god ,jesus made it clear in other verses what he ment by saying if any one loves his father or mother more then me he is not worthy to be my deciple , mathew recored jesus saying that .
But when it comes to the bible saying god hates all thoses who do iniqiuty ,and i have jacob and hated esaw,, we see clearly what god ment by rejecting esaw,and killing and judging punishing servealy , those who did iniquity ,,,that wasnt because he loved them less , but because he hated there sin ,,and what a man does so he is ,and wha he seaks so he is ,,he hated them and manfested, a holy righteous hatred and anger ..
4The LORD is in His holy temple; the LORD'S throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men. 5The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates. 6Upon the wicked He will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind will be the portion of their cup.…
Ps 11"15
4For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You. 5The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity. 6You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.…
Ps 5-5
Sister it is a nonessential to me if you beleieve that god hates sinners ,,but i beleieve the bible states that , i would stil worship god beside you ..!!
I think election in the case of Jacob and Esau refers to not their salvation but to Jacob's special calling. I think Esau is not totally rejected as sinners are but simply locked out of the special calling.
Edited to add:
I have not yet decided how it is with God hating/loving sinners.
I hope you dont mind me posting some scripture , i nomaly dont post large amounts , but to get cotexual flow of pauls leter sometimes it is esential....
6It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, "Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.”a 8So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring. 9For this is what the promise specified: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”b
10Not only that, but Rebecca’s children were conceived by one man, our father Isaac. 11Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, 12not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, "The older will serve the younger.”c 13So it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”d
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Absolutely not! 15For He says to Moses:
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”e
16So then, it does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”f 18Therefore God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden.
The Calling of the Gentiles
19One of you will say to me, "Then why does God still find fault? For who can resist His will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, "Why have you made me like this?”g 21Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use?
22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction? 23What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory”” 24including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? 25As He says in Hosea:
Verse 15 ,seems to take the idea that jacobs election was just a calling ,and that esaw only missed out on that , but that Jacob receved mercy and compassion, and esaw did not ,,mercy is a associated with a blessing that is linked with salvation in this case ,as at the time jacobe need no temporal form of mercy ,for was not under that type of judgment ,
Also the harding part was mentioned as a withdrawal of blessing ,regarding election , so esaw. Edited...who god hated recieved the opasite of compassion as did pharo .
In verse 22 now paul links the idea of gods wrath and destruction upon those that are not elect,, rather then the context being just a special calling ,it seems to travel right to the end of the road,,then paul includes us and the saved jews into the story of gods choosing to show love to us rather then punishment and gods hate and anger which palms speaks about in the verse i posted .......
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