Jesus drowned in a multitude of words.......

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The Bible is a wonderful book. It is the truth about the Truth. It is not the Truth. A sermon taken from the Bible can be a wonderful thing to hear. It is the truth about the truth about the truth. But it is not the truth. There have been many books written about the things contained in the Bible. I have written some myself. They can be quite wonderful to read. They are the truth about the truth about truth about the Truth. But they are NOT the Truth. ONLY JESUS CHRIST IS THE TRUTH. Sometimes the Truth can be drowned in a multitude of words.

...Richard Wormbrandt...

Read and read again, and do not despair of help to understand the will and mind of God though you think they are locked up from you. Neither trouble your heads though you have not commentaries nor expositions. Pray and read and read and pray for a little from God is better than a whole lot from men.

...John Bunyon...

...Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, like newborn babies, LONG FOR THE PURE MILK of THE WORD, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord...1 Peter 2:1-3

... As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, just as it has taught you, you abide in Him...1 John 2:27

... But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you...John 14:26

Brothers and sisters all we need is Jesus living in us by His Spirit and a New Testament to learn about Him. If we look to men and their commentaries and their systematic theologies and their sermons, we lose sight of Jesus. We fail to hear the Voice of the Shepherd. Or His Voice is drowned out with the voice of men who profess to speak for Him. Our longing should be for the pure milk of the word of God. Not for the word of men. Our longing should be for Jesus Himself who is the Word.

You may have all of this theology but give me Jesus.
You may have all of this theology but give me Jesus.
You may have all of this theology but give me Jesus.

Simply my thoughts this Sunday morning.

Caps are for emphasis only.

From the bear cave.:)

My brother you're coming with the spirit of argumentation. I will not engage in such. If you have the Spirit of Jesus living in you. And you have a New Testament. Go with a teachable heart and see if what I say is true.

I have put verses in the OP. You pray over them and ask God to show your heart the truth of these verses. Be as John Bunyan who said read and pray and pray and read.

Gary don't come with an argumentative spirit. But come with a teachable heart. Ask God to show you the truth and to reveal Christ to you.

My thoughts bro.

That is so true brother. I do not dispute that. You did not need me. You need Jesus and His Holy Spirit to show you the truth of His Word. I am simply sharing thoughts as God puts them on my heart. I'm not professing to speak for Christ.

Brother I sense the hostility in your post toward me. I urge you to go to Jesus with a teachable heart and ask Him to show you the truth of Hinself. You will be blessed with a far greater revelation of what Jesus will show you. I will pray that God will give you a sweet revelation of a deeper reality of Jesus in your heart.

Gotta go bro. And you probably need to get some rest as it is probably night over there in Australia. May God grant you a sweet rest brother.:)

Brother Blaine

Lord Jesus I pray give my dear brother, Gary, a greater revelation of You through your Spirit. May Gary see the wonders of Jesus as displayed in the pages of your Word. Lord may verses that Gary has read just come alive and resonate in his heart. May my brother know that You are real. That you are the Living Word who lives in him. For Jesus I ask this in Your Blessed Name. Amen.

Brother you do well to quote a dozen verses. But what is Jesus saying to you. I have already shared what he said to my heart this morning. What is he saying to you?

Just take one of the verses you quoted to me and share with me what is he speaking to your heart. Or share something from your quiet time. I don't doubt you know the word. But what has the Shepherd spoken into your heart.

Gotta go bro. But look forward to hearing what Jesus has shared with you.

Gene Edwards once said that all Christians should put their Bibles away for one year and just follow the Spirit.

I found this a very troubling exhortation.

I have read many books about persecuted brethren and especially testimonies where if one finds a copy of the Bible they tear out the pages and distribute them to the saints so that each saint has a page to memorize. Christians shed tears at being given one page of the Bible even if it is from the book of Numbers. Saints have also smuggled Bibles into countries where they are banned at great peril to their lives.

Gene Edward's house church theology will be 40 years old in 2027 and he once said that a man's work should be judged after 40 years. So far, his work has produced bad fruit by and large. He did not suggest that people put away his writings for a year, only the Bible. Many people followed him blindly and have fallen into terrible ditches. A major sign of a cult leader is to de-emphasize the Word of God.

I kind of see where both of you are coming from (I think), but if I may add a few thoughts:

The scriptures are clear that God gave the various parts of the Body for the Building up of the church. The Five Fold ministry and all the gifts of the Spirit (as God ordained) are for the building up and encouraging of the rest of the Body. This is clear from Romans, the Corinthian Letters, etc. in Fact, it says "the eye can not say to the hand, 'I have no need of you'...if the whole body we're seeing, where would the hearing be?..." Etc. So there is a divine setting in place all the parts of the Body "somewhat" dependent on the others to come into the fullness of Christ. Not that God can't work when that truly isn't available (like in Wirmbrand's case in a Romanian cell), but that the rejection or minimizing of that when it is...that's another issue & can signify something in our own heart that still needs the wisdom, & especially humility, of Christ to touch on it.

As far as the verses in the OP, I do think some context is important:

1.) I John 2 "you have no need that any man teach you.." But wait? Wouldn't that be scripture contradicting itself? If that's true in how you are reading it, then why did God appoint teachers, tell teachers to teach, tell the Body all parts are needed and to be cherished, etc.? Because in 1 John there he is speaking of "false teachers" and false teaching. In its context, John is saying that the true believer has the Holy Spirit to "teach" between the true and the false. Between the Ekklessia in the Sunagaguae which pours out the fragrance of Christ from the anti-Christ & the wolves, the Gnostics (heretics they were already dealing with at that time), etc.

2.) 1 Peter there seems in context to be speaking to "babes", newborns in Christ. Specifivcally and especially that they should desire and crave pure spiritual milk of the Word. That they should drink it up night and day. I know I did as a babe in Christ & I still enjoy a good glass of refreshing milk on a fairly regular basis now too. My 2 month old, Micah Israel, craves milk every 4 hours, "straight from the spout" as it were. 😊 But as for me, I actually prefer meat. Can't give Micah meat or he will choke on it, but I need to move on to the meatier things past the 6 foundations of the faith. Hebrews explains all of this full well in the context of all of scripture as a whole. That's what I believe I Peter is saying in its context.

3.) And the Holy Spirit Jesus sent no doubt "brings to our remember since all the things He said.." The Holy Spirit quickens me at times in ministering, in evangelism, in personal correction, etc. and applies the Word on a specific situation to bring wisdom, power and application. Thank God for that. But if He is going to quicken the Word to us (all the things Jesus spoke to His disciples as He was referencing & who He was speaking to in context), would that then contradict the Word in the epistles where Paul specifically states that Teachers are for the Body? God never contradicts Himself. And when there is a discrepancy in scripture, the answer is always - more scripture & the Holy Spirit's enlightenment on the text, & yes, sometimes, study & teaching, to help bring a better more accurate scripturally reconcilable understanding.

It's not an "either or" situation either. I mean, if I had to choose between the Word/Spirit and Tecahers in the Body of Jesus, I would choose the former. But I don't have to. And God isn't asking me to. And if I am TOTALLY resistant to what God has ordained, maybe the root of some of that issue is partly something in me? Or in my understanding that's not yet complete? At least worth contemplating?
God Bless you Both brothers!
Jeff

What two brothers are you referring to, Jeff. Gary and Bear?

Sometimes, quotes are helpful.

Type open bracket, "quote", close bracket at the beginning of the quote.

[ quote]

Yes,
that is who I was talking about (the two in most of not all the posts in the thread). Point taken. I would quote more & even give exact scripture references (I usually say, like it says in Isaiah, "xyz.." Or similar). The main reason for that is just time. But yes, it would be more helpful and potentially clear where someone isn't following me, if I did it.
Thanks!
Jeff

I know it takes time, but it actually helps others quite a bit.

It takes time to write long posts, too. ;-)

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"Brothers and sisters all we need is Jesus living in us by His Spirit and a New Testament to learn about Him."

Brothers this is what I quoted in the OP. I never said anything about throwing away your Bible or New Testament. But as in the case of our brother Richard Wurmbrand he was sustained by Jesus himself without access to a Bible. But that is another discussion.

All I am sharing is that one can learn the truth about Jesus by sitting directly under the feet of Jesus Himself. Or rather being in His presence with the Holy Spirit and an open New Testament. Or the complete Bible if you wish.

We have the author of Scriptures living within us. If He is living within us than He is certainly capable of teaching us from the book He wrote.

My thoughts.

You may be misrepresenting brother Wurmbrand a bit. He studied and knew and loved God's word and hid it in his heart. He did not get saved and go straight to prison having never had a bible.

A good example to hide the Word of God in our hearts.

Brothers and sisters where do we get this idea that we have to sit under a man who stands at the front of the church with a seminary degree to expound God's word to us. Where in the New Testament is there such a model?

Out of the passages that have been quoted to me buy those who dispute with me. I would like to look at two of them. In Ephesians Paul writes,

... And he gave some apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the statue which belongs to the fullness of Christ...Ephesians 4:11-13

The above verses speak of positions in the body of Christ. These positions or offices are to be filled by men who have been called and gifted by the Holy Spirit to perform the task of apostle, prophet, pastor, teacher, and evangelust. ( Paul is not saying one needs to go to Seminary).

But certainly one who is called to one of the five positions above needs to be gifted by the Holy Spirit. Four Paul says in Ephesians 5:8,

... And he gave gifts to men...

It would seem that the fivefold ministry as this is some time called will be served by men who have a servant's heart to encourage the body of Christ. I don't think that we have the idea of a professional clergy involved in the above passages.

I find it interesting that 1 Corinthians 14:26 has been quoted to me as justification for sitting under the teaching ministry of a professional clergy. Let us look at the passage as Paul writes,

... What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification... 1 Corithians 14:26.

How on earth one can get a one man clergy/laity out of this passage I have no idea. I look at that passage and I see body life. I see body ministry. I certainly am in agreement for Spirit-filled believers to come together with the psalm, teaching, revelation from God's wotd, a tongue, an interpretation, a word of knowledge, a prophetic insight, a Spirit-filled hymn, a prayer request, etc. For This truly is the New Testament model. This truly is what Christ desires for His bride.

The idea of one pastor educated in a seminary an expanding God's word too rows of people sitting in the pew is not a New Testament model. I will go as far as to say it is highly unbiblical.

But than to suggest such a thing as 1st Corinthians 14:26 will certainly offend the religious spirits that prevail in American Christendom.

Simply my thoughts.

Brother can you show me in the OP where I said we throw away our Bibles. Look at the preceding post and you will see the gist of what I'm getting at.

Can you please show me in the New Testament where we get the clergy laity distinction? Can you please show me in the New Testament where we as believers in the New Covenant are to sit under a professional clergy? Can you please show me in the New Testament where such clergy must have seminary degrees.

These are the issues that I am raising in this thread. Again I have never said nor implied that one threw away their Bible. What I am trying to reason is that one need only their Bible and the Holy Spirit to teach them from the scriptures.

Hope I have clarified myself. I await your response to my questions above.