I am new and would love to speak with some of you

Hello!

Several months ago the moderators gave me permission to post here which is a real blessing. I just discovered the forum, its wonderful. Could I ask a couple of questions here?

To provide a context, I am a 32 year old minister from Northwest Arkansas. I was called to minister at 16 and have done so since then. I grew up Pentecostal, and have seen a lot in the Charismatic churches I grew up in. I grew up fandamentalist, arminian, and charismatic. God moved us from there with my new family to a non denomination church where I youth pastored, and then to a Mega church for about 5 years. My wife of 10 years and I are going to pastor in the area, and sense that our time to start is very near.

However, I have noticed a massive change in my theology. Where I was once a New Apostolic reformation man, loved Bill Johnson, Bill Hamon, Cindy Jacobs, etc. God has moved me on from much of that. While I hold a classical arminian view, God has driven me to the Puritans and men like Ravenhill, David Wilkerson, Jim Cymbala, Paul Washer and many other Calvinists as well.

My question is this. I have seen how a multi million dollar building and thousands of people in attendance can be achieved. And it breaks my heart. The message God has laid on my heart is holiness. Brokenness. Prayer and purity. These are not topics I would have chosen. In the past I held to fluffy theology and sermons, but now its my pleasure to pray for 2 hours in the mornings, pour over the word and old theology at night, and I cant stand with the weakness of most modern preaching and many preachers and churches.The rampant lack of holiness and true sincerity and sanctification. So, to the question, what does it look like to start a church that makes these things (holiness, sanctification, prayer, biblical preaching) an emphasis? How would that church begin? how would it grown in these things? What have been your experiences with these things?

I know I am asking a lot, but do many of you find that there is a kind of loneliness to your calling when holiness is an emphasis? I feel that I look around constantly to my Christian friends shallow Christianity and careless ministers who are concerned with numbers. Not all of course, but many. Do you ever feel like you have had specific seasons of separation from people?

Probably too much in one post here, but thank you for letting me join. I feel like I am about to explode typing it all out, haha. THank you for your time

I don't know much about "starting a church", per se, but I do know something of the feelings and concerns you describe. My email is fgump195@gmail.com if you'd like to correspond more on a more personal level... I believe that you are very likely in a good place.

I do have some experience with home gatherings, or "house church."

Blessings, brother(?)

Id love to hear more about home churches, and do you see them as more biblical, their function, etc.

I had, at the very least, considered starting in a home. But will pray more about this being an option as well.

Thank you!

Thank you for sharing with us.

I can say that these days I enjoy my Friday night home prayer and study group more than I do the Sunday meetings of the corporate body although I still enjoy Sundays. If you do decide it's God's will for you to start a home church there will not be anything second rate about it. That's for sure. That model is likely to become more and more common and even necessary in the coming days.

If you minster on brokenness, prayer and purity I believe God will be there with you helping confirm the direction you set by doing this. May the Lord continue to bless the times of study in the mornings and nights that you mentioned.

KC, perhaps God has placed you even in this forum at this moment with your post. I encourage you too. Keep seeking Him as you already do. Also, please consider the book by bro. Greg, who runs SermonIndex, at https://gfel.org/principlesbook-3/ . Use Forrest's invitation to talk. I pray that God takes your heart and your wife's in His hand and personally shpeherds you as it pleases Him in this direction of home-based church.

by brother KC
The message God has laid on my heart is holiness. Brokenness. Prayer and purity. These are not topics I would have chosen.

by brother KC
So, to the question, what does it look like to start a church that makes these things (holiness, sanctification, prayer, biblical preaching) an emphasis? How would that church begin? how would it grown in these things? What have been your experiences with these things?

The church grew out of word of mouth, they never advertised. They had sunday school but they didn't have anything else, sunday school and then church that might last up to 3 hours!! LOL It was out in the middle of nowhere Indiana and most people had to travel and did so happily (me included) 1 and 1/2 hours to get there from south dayton ohio.

Most people didn't like to go because it they didn't have all the bells and whistles that other churches have but those that came and stayed wanted Jesus and to know Him.

You are going to have to fast and pray and follow the Lord, how He leads you and where He leads you. If He doesn't lead, I believe He'll be testing you to see if you will go ahead and break out on your own but please don't, even if you wait for 5 years, then wait and minister where you are at right now.

Remember the fruit of the Spirit and
have love where you are,
have joy where you are,
peace where you are,
patience where you are,
kindness where you are,
goodness where you are,
faithfulness where you are,
gentleness where you are and
self-control where you are.!! :) :) :)
If you do, you will never regret it!!

God speed on this new adventure!!!
Lisa

Hi Collins,

Here's a body of believers in Missouri you may want to contact;

http://www.ntrf.org/find-a-church/st-louis-missouri.php

The website they are listed on is an excellent place to get connected and to find resources all about believers meeting in homes.

Do hope that it is an encouragement as well as a help to you and your family along your pilgrimage.

Worship God. Rev. 22:8,9

Well brother, let me simply say this, praise God for where He has you. I love reading/hearing people's stories, both testimonies of God's redeeming grace, and stories of sanctification. Just reading this thrills me and makes me praise our great Lord and Savior all the more.

I too have had a "broken heart" over seeing mega-buildings and denominational divides. Recently, for me, I have been broken over people. I feel broken over those who just don't know any better and have been under false teachings, broken over those who are simply wayward, and broken over the what is happening globally.

I would say this as well, the emphasis for any church ought to be one thing - Jesus Christ. For to be holy we do not talk about holiness, but we look to the one who is holy. For if we our vision is on the One to whom we are claiming and we are walking with Him in reality, then the admonishion, edification and discipline He will most assuredly supply. For holiness and sanctification will come from the "Author and Perfecter" of our faith. So focus on Christ, the attributes of God, the sacrificial grace of God through Christ, propitiation, and then the preaching will be directed rightly, the people encouraged to walk the narrow path walking with God and prayer will all increase.

Blessings and would love to connect with you more.

Sincerely,

jeremy

Boy, I have not been on and I so appreciate every one of you, Forrest, thank you for your email as well I have not mean to put you off and value you all very much. I will continue to pray and stay on this forum and seek your fellowship. thank you

Collins: I have thought about your original post for some time now, and have never responded. I am blessed to be part of a fellowship in the Joplin area that is, in my opinion, what you describe. I can tell you how we started.

The leadership of our fellowship are all men who have experienced the negative side of "church" in the past. Two out of three of us have been through at least two church splits. I have moved around the body of Christ a bit and have had some experience with different movements. I can often tell who someone has been listening to by the words and phrases they use. All of us have a burning desire to see the church be what God has called it to be.

We are zealous of sound doctrine coupled with an openness to the genuine move of the Holy Spirit of God. We honor the word of God, both spoken and written, with the former being judged by the latter in all cases.

We all realize that the growth of the body of Christ is described in Ephesians 4. Numbers can take care of themselves. We would rather see the people that we have been given to minister to grow into mature men and women of God who are totally in love with their savior and submitted to Him, walking in the Spirit. We believe if that is the case, the church will grow numerically as God adds to the church. So, we have not church growth model other than to serve as ministers of reconciliation, winning the lost, and then discipling them into maturity.

We have a philosophy that we want the truth to be preached and the presence of the Holy Spirit to be so manifest that unbelievers will either run to the altar or run out the back door, but cannot remain neutral and complacent for long. We do not hype up the fire and brimstone, nor do we fail to clearly teach and demonstrate the grace of God. We simply preach and teach what we see in scripture in truth, love, and sincerity.

We have LOTS of fellowship gatherings. We see ourselves like a family. We like to say we have the best hot-dogs in the area and we eat lots of them together around a bonfire worshiping, fellowshipping and establishing relationship with each other. We regularly text and call one another with encouragement and exhortation.

We allow the love of God to flow from us to others. People who come in say that they have never been in a place where they feel genuine love like our fellowship. It brings them back and keeps them coming. As a testament to this, we have grown in the past two years from around 30 to around 130. We are meeting in a building one pew wide and eight pews deep while we build a new building and call ourselves sardines for Jesus since we are packed in so tightly. Totally blows away all "church growth" wisdom, but then again, God never read those books I don't think. :-)

We are hungry to see God change our community and meet to pray regularly toward that end. We do not have a "board" and we do not vote on anything. The eldership (3 men right now) are accountable to each other and we pray until we have God's direction, then we act. We will at times poll the body to see what they are thinking about some decisions, but we do not vote or hold any kind of elections. We strive to keep the unity of the body in the bond of peace. We refuse to allow gossip, backbiting, or complaining among the body. We are very proactive about this.

The pastor is a man with a clear vision. God told him to start the church and he is zealous about seeing it come to pass as God instructs him. I am a teacher and bring weekly foundational teaching. We have some trusted men who also come in with different giftings and callings to minister to the body.

I say all of this to give you a feel for what we do. You will have to ask God to lead you into the vision that HE has for you to do. But I think the things I wrote are symptomatic of a healthy body.

The church started very small. The pastor and about 15 others or so, most of them related to him who just wanted to support what he felt God was leading him to do. Through much prayer and over time God brought in others to walk with the pastor and help in ministry. We see the importance of identifying the giftings in people, seeing them mature, and then helping them to step into their callings. This will guarantee that as we grow, we will train new leaders from those who were once new believers.

We are careful to communicate our values and standards to new people coming into the body. We know where God is leading us and we want them to know clearly where they are going if they get on board the train.

I am not sure if any of this is helpful. I am hoping you can weed through some of it and get a sense of what it looks like. God will lead you uniquely, but the basics are the same. I pray God will truly lead you into His will and that you will bear much fruit in NW Arkansas. I know a man down there who has the kind of heart you have. Maybe I can get with you somehow and get you his name.

It starts with the preaching of the Gospel. There is an allure (and rightly so) to getting back to the "old ways"; however, it is vital that we don't do that only. It is the hearing and believing the Gospel--the Christ-centered, soul-stirring, life-changing Gospel of Jesus Christ--that transforms the hearts of men.

Once people are converted, then you meet together with them very, very often and teach them to walk with the Lord, learn from them the wisdom that God gives, and take seriously what the scriptures say our lives should look like.

Love God, love people, resolve to know nothing but Christ and Him crucified.

Havok: That brings up a point I think. There really should be no old ways or new ways. There are only God's ways laid out in His word and now obedience as He leads us. I understand what is meant by old ways, that we need to return to the type of passion and obedience and simplicity of the gospel that some of the older moves of God were marked by. We do need to be careful that the cares of this life and the glitter of what is modern does not captivate us instead of our being captivated by God. But old ways for the sake of old ways are as dead as new ways for the sake of modernity.

Exactly my point twayneb! Appreciate it!

"I cant stand with the weakness of most modern preaching and many preachers and churches.The rampant lack of holiness and true sincerity and sanctification."

I understand and sympathize with you. But we as christians have to remember to love everyone, even the lukewarm christians who hold to fluffy theology. Pray for them. They desperately need your help, and most importantly, Jesus has an undying love for them.

In Christ,
Nigel