Two natures in every believer?

I think this explains it very well.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/probprov.html

It is very important to understand Romans 7 correctly, and the position of the writer in the link from Julius, is of pre-conversion, which is better than the post-conversion view as it is understood, but still not the whole story.

"The Similarity Between Romans 7 and Galatians 5 Favors the Post-Conversion View.

Another post-conversion argument involves the relationship between Romans 7:14-25 and Galatians 5:16-18. Galatians 5:16-18 says, "I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.”

There is an obvious continuity between Romans 7:14-25 and Galatians 5:16-18. Both sections of scripture
describe an internal battle between the desires of the flesh and spiritual desires. In Galatians 5:16-18, the
battle is between the Spirit (Πνεῦμα) and the flesh (σάρξ). In Romans 7:14-25, the battle is between the
mind (νοός) and the flesh (σάρξ). Because of the mention of the Holy Spirit in Galatians 5:16-18, this
passage is dealing with the experience of a believer. Because an almost identical experience is described
in Romans 7:14-25, this portion of scripture must also be speaking of the experience of a believer. 35"

http://www.chafer.edu/files/v14no2_romans_7_and_sanctification.pdf

Neither side of the divide, that is between Arminians and Calvinists explains it for me in the way that holiness teaching does.

In that interpretation, the man whom Paul is representing, a believer, has been trying to please God in the flesh, and has come to the end of his tether. This is the crisis point where a man learns what walking in the Spirit means whereby the old nature has been put to death and indeed he now has one nature.

The pre-conversion model is defunct by experience. The flesh is patently not put to death in most believers until that person comes to the crisis Paul is describing of entire sanctification.

Ezek. 36:25-27, "I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean, I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from your idols. Moreover I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you, and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances."

Now the word "heart" here is our very essence and core of our very being. It is the root and foundational source that makes us - us. I think would could use the word nature here instead of heart without twisting the scripture.

It is clear that God REMOVES the old heart (nature) and the gives us a NEW heart (nature) in its place. No person can have two hearts at the same time. That is impossible.

Now is this not the same thing thing here?

Romans 6:6-7, "Knowing this, that our old man (nature)is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin."

When I first came to Christ I did not fully realize or know all of what God in Christ had accomplished for me and in me. I knew that I was forgiven and Christ was now part of my life. At that time I was taught that you could have Christ in your life but it was up to me to make Him number one. I also was taught that Christ could be present in my life but I had to make Him president. As a result of this teaching I always considered the "Real Me” as separated from Christ. I felt it was up to me to somehow make Christ the lord of my life.

For over 40 years I attempted to live the Christian life by applying the teachings of Christ to my life. When I became I Christian I was determined to be "A GOOD CHRISTIAN” so I studied much. I went to church every time it was open and listened many messages by respected leaders.

Most of my time was spent on putting forth much effort to do good things while avoiding bad things. I was always involved with some form of behavior modification or sin maintenance program to please God. None of this brought the victory I so longed for. Some of you may be attempting to do this now but you will only find complete failure and defeat like I did.

I confessed my sins daily but found out this did not give me any victory over them. I prayed to God many times thanking Him for his forgiveness but I wanted more than just forgiveness. I wanted to be free from the domain from sin. I did not see much good in the fact that I was forgiven if I had to continue living in sin. I had NO desire to continue sinning and prayed for complete freedom

I read in the bible that I was free in Christ but when I looked at myself I felt that I was desperately wicked, and totally corrupt. I felt that I had indwelling sin. During this time I was taught that I had two natures within me. I am sure you know this teaching - that these two natures are like a white good dog and a black bad dog both living inside me fighting against each other. Now I was told the dog that wins is the one you feed the most.

Well I spend much time reading the bible, praying, witnessing while avoiding anything I thought might feed the bad black dog. I rebuked the devil, put on the armor of God but still continued to fail and sin every single day. I confessed and confessed. I repented and repented. I rededicated my life over and over again to God. I hated my sins and truly wanted to be free but nothing ”THAT I WAS DOING” worked at all. The truth was it only made me worse.

So now I asked over and over again - what was wrong with me?

Some of you may be in this situation at this time so I am hoping that this will help you see the truth. My problem was that I saw myself as an "independent" person and I acted from that belief. This is a total lie from Satan. When I was born again I was paced in union with God. It is Satan who initiated this false divided outlook. This was my sin of unbelief - unbelief about who God says who I really am.

The Holy Spirit opened my eyes to see that this was something that God had already done for me and in me. I saw it was ONLY by HIS doing that I was in Christ. 1 Cor. 1:30 New American Standard Bible (©1995) "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption."

God has said that He that is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him (1 Cor. 6:17). He has also said that He is the vine and believers are the branches. He is their owner, and believers are His bond slaves. Our Body is His Temple and He is the deity who lives and abides in that temple. We, the believers, are the temple to manifest and display Him. He is the husband, furnishing the seed to the productive wife. Believers are the wife, wedded to this One. He is the treasure, and we, the believers, are the vessels that contain Him.

The branch, the vessel, the temple, the wife - all are dependent. The branch is dependent upon the vine, the vessel upon the contents, the temple upon the deity, and the wife upon the husband. The analogy of the owner and the slave shows that the master is the one who owns the slave, and as in Romans 6:17, the slave is never his own owner or his own operator.

So, if you are a believer, to even "see" yourself as a "separated - I” or an "alone - I" who has the ability to operate by himself - even that seeing is sin.

Here was the root of my real problem. Look what I wrote in my first paragraph. I always considered the "Real Me” as separated from Christ. I felt it was up to me to somehow make Christ the lord of my life. Yes I fell for Satan’s lie and spent 40 years attempting to do what God had already accomplished in me and for me.

Are you struggling with sin or trying to get faith?

Basically, many Christians are trying to get what they already have in Christ. They are trying to get into a room that they are already in. Christians are striving to improve themselves instead of resting in the power of His resurrection life. If we understood what the Bible declares to be true, then there is no self to improve. For a "dead man" can't be improved. "You are dead, and Christ is your life..." (Col. 3:3-4). God doesn't want improved nor recommitted people. He wants dead people. Why? You can't be raised with Christ if you are not dead.

The way for the Spirit's transforming power to be activated in us is by simply believing what God says instead of striving to become who we already are. Once we lay hold of the truth, the Truth (Jesus) will lay hold of us and by His Holy Spirit transform us into the new persons we already are, thereby causing us to spontaneously manifest righteousness.

We need a change of minds renewed to the sanctifying truths of the Gospel. Our carnal minds are polluted with lies from the Fall. Deep in our consciousness, redeemed man is still wearing the grave clothes from his former owner. We are like Lazarus coming alive out of the tomb. He was alive, but after four days, Lazarus's grave clothes stunk with death. As long as we live from these lies, we too are living with the stench of dead grave clothes. Take off your stinking grave clothes and put on Christ, who is your sanctification, your righteousness, and your glory.

Are you trying to add Jesus Christ to your life? Are you trying to apply His teachings to your life?

This is NOT TRUE CHRISTIANITY!

You do not apply Him or His teachings to your life at all. You have died and you have His LIFE.

He applies HIS Life to you and in you - it was a total exchange. You died - He lives. You no longer have a life - He is your LIFE!

Gal. 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Now look at this part, "yet not I, but Christ liveth in me." the I was replaced with the person of Christ.

If you think that you are separated from Christ or think that you are independent from him - you need to repent.

Satan's temptations are not primarily to make us do something particularly sinful, but merely to cause us to act in our own energy;, and as soon as we step out of our hiding-place to do some thing on that basis, he has gained the victory over us. If we do not move, if we do not come out of the cover of Christ into the realm of the flesh, then he cannot get us.

The Divine way of victory does not permit of our doing anything at all-anything, that is to say, outside of Christ. This is because as soon as we move we run into danger, for our natural inclinations take us in the wrong direction. Where, then, are we to look for help? Turn now to Galatians 5.17: "The flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh ". In other words, the flesh does not fight against us but against the Holy Spirit, "for these are contrary the one to the other ", and it is He, not we, who meets and deals with the flesh. What is the result? "That ye may not do the things that ye would."

I think we have often understood that last clause of this verse in a wrong sense. Let us consider what it means. What 'would we do' naturally? We would move off on some course of action dictated by our own instincts and apart from the will of God. The effect then of our refusal to act out from ourselves is that the Holy Spirit is free to meet and deal with the flesh in us, with the result that we shall not do what we naturally would do; that is, we shall not act according to our natural inclinations; we shall not go off on a course and plan of our own: but shall find instead our satisfaction in His perfect plan.

Hence we have the principle: "Walk by the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh" (Gal. 5.16). If we live in the Spirit, if we walk by faith in the risen Christ, we can truly 'stand aside' while the Spirit gains new victories over the flesh every day. He has been given to us to take charge of this business. Our victory lies in hiding in Christ, and in counting in simple trust upon His Holy Spirit to overcome in us our fleshly lusts with His own new desires. The Cross has been given to procure salvation for us: the Spirit has been given to produce salvation in us. Christ risen and ascended is the basis of our salvation: Christ in our hearts by the Spirit is its power.

Julius, you put a teaching on this thread, I do not understand....how is this Jim Fowler?

i'm going to look into him....remember those "WOLVES"?

You know what they say Neil,
A heretic a day keeps the truth away.

Here is some of Fowler's foul replacement religion teachings on Israel that J promotes here on a regular basis.

"Israel of God
Just as hieroglyphics were pictures with a meaning, in like manner God used pictorial representation to explain what He intended. One of God's pictorial preliminaries was the nation of Israel."

(Fowler said here the Israel was just a picture of what God was doing, just using them as an illustration of his eternal purpose and then to be discarded)

"As a physical people and nation they represented the spiritual peoples who would receive the resurrection-life of Jesus Christ; people who had striven with God and surrendered to God and in whom God now rules (Gen. 32:28; 35:10)."

(Fouler postulates his opinion here that God is finished with Israel because they were just set pieces in the grand scheme of things. Used up and kicked out and replaced by the church)

"This it is that Christians are now the "Israel of God" (Gal. 6:16), though not descended from physical Israel (Rom. 9:6). Christ rules as risen Lord in the lives of the holy nation (I Peter 2:9) of Christian Israel, that is all Christians who have received His resurrection-life by faith and are living by faith."

(Again more nonsense from Fowlers warped views regarding salvation and the the Jewish nation)

"Kingdom of God
The "kingdom of God" is another figure that God used to pre-figure His intent. The Jews conceived of the kingdom of God as a nationalistic kingdom with a Jewish king in the realm of Palestine. There are still Zionist expectations in Judeo-Christian religion today, focusing on a futuristic physical millennial kingdom in Palestine."

(He concludes with this utter self fabricated nonsense and ultimately a demonic view that is replacement baloney.)

Hear hear David. It gets very frustrating for those who follow the rules when the badly behaved won't.

Being dead, resurrected, and in union with Christ makes you a whole new being and gives you a whole new mentality/identity. Since the Old Man (union with Satan) is dead, that "self-centered" power source is gone in us. Think about it: what can a dead person do? "Well, NOTHING"! Basically, we don't live our own lives any more. We have to totally depend on the RESURRECTED LIFE of Christ to be our life. So therefore we are crucified with Christ, we are raised in union with Christ, and ascended in union with Christ. That is the living gospel in operation.

As long as Satan lies to you and you believe him, you are the one who gives him power. And, if you want to talk about "free will," here it is: it is your choice. Which is it? Believe Satan's lies, or believe the truth of the Gospel?

When a Christian believes the lie of "my own self-life," a false reality comes into being and Satan counterfeits the truth and changes it into a lie and deceives the Christian who believes it. This is the very nature of deception, and is exactly how Satan gets power over Christians. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. The answer is as simple as switching minds: "You are not in the flesh, you are in the Spirit in union with Christ" (Rom. 8:9)! "You are not just you, you are joined to Christ; He is your life" (I Cor. 6:17; Col. 3:4).

We Christians are of Jesus (The Truth), and not of the Lie. So as children of Truth, believe what Colossians 3:9 says, "Lie not one to another seeing you have put off the old man with his deeds, and have put on the new man which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him." Do you hear what the scripture is saying? STOP lying about yourself. See that? You already have put off the old man (Rom. 6:6) and you have already put on the New Man. "When did I do that," you ask? When you were put into Christ at your conversion. You were baptized into union with Him at the Cross. So, you derive your righteousness and holiness from His Life and declare by faith that you are righteous and holy by virtue of His righteousness IN you.

Jesus Christ has redeemed us; He has reconciled us to the Father; He re-"gene"-ed us with a new genealogy; He restored our soul; He healed our body; He justified us; He sanctified us; and, He did it all by the transforming power of the Cross. Christ was made sin on our behalf that we might be made His righteousness (II Cor. 5:21). Sin means being indwelt with a satanic sin nature, producing self- centeredness, blindness, pride of life, vain glory, love of the world, the lust of the eye, the lust of the flesh, envy, strife, separation from God, and so on. Christ died to all these misuses and has raised us up together in union with Himself in His holy life making us a New Creation. Believe God and live in union with Christ.

"According as his divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of HIM that has called you to glory and virtue; Whereby are given unto us exceedingly great and precious promises, that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" (II Pet. 1:3-4).

Stand by faith in the fact that you are already delivered. Are you still manifesting some dark behaviors? It's only because Satan has you believing that you are permanently trapped AND THERE IS NO DELIVERANCE.