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(video) "Covenant and Controversy Part One: The Great Rage"

sermonindex Aug 7, 2016

why are the Jews so hated?......1:40 documentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0iTHHKqFRs&t=1419s

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

For those who have not seen this series:

COVENANT AND CONTROVERSY is a series of films produced by Frontier Alliance International.

Throughout centuries, judenhass has found expression in political, religious and social contexts spanning continents and cultures without discernible cause or correlation. The Great Rage is the first installment in this five-part series, which assesses these historical expressions of Jew-hatred and grapples with the modern progression of this international rage in present-day.

Covenant and Controversy is produced by FAI STUDIOS, exploring the history and theology of the enduring controversy over the Jewish people, the Land of Israel, and the city of Jerusalem. The Great Rage features Dalton Thomas, Stephanie Quick, Michael Reynolds, Joel Richardson, Dr. Michael Brown, Dr. Barry Horner, and Scott Volk.

Part 2 trailer is available and soon the second part of the entire film: https://vimeo.com/ondemand/thecityofthegreatking/172282547

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Yeah, good stuff. All of the previous people in part 1 will be in part 2 that releases September 1st (I got to film some of it in Jerusalem which was cool since I know nothing of what I am doing). Reggie Kelley will also be in part 2, "The City of the Great King". It will be on Vimeo on Demand for purchase screened for like 1-2 months (to help fund the next in the series) & then available online for all to view for free (like what Ray Comfort does). I Can't more highly recommend it.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

thank you Greg!

H
Heydave Aug 8, 2016

Has it been forgotten so quickly?! It was only last October when I posted a link to this film that we saw the beginning of much 'controversy' and 'great rage' from some on this forum.

Maybe there are some newly joined or re-joined since last October, but it caused quite a storm to the point that the many threads related to this were locked and some folk ended up leaving the forum or at least not participating on it anymore.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that this should not be promoted, as I think it is an important issue that needs to be made visible, but I guess I am just very surprised (but pleased) that it is now being endorsed by SI, as previously much slander against the film was allowed to go unchecked.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

imagine that

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

I actually went back & watched the film again. Powerful. Significant. Prophetic. With real world Gospel & Eternal implications. When the future prophesied Israel-centric words come to pass - thee will be important theological implications to have thought out well & taken to the Word & before the Lord. I believe the stance of the heart in either arrogance or humility towards this people will have serious implications. As serious implications as it did during Nazi Germany, or likely exponentially more in scope. And oh yeah, there's that whole scripture thing God laid out in His Word too in serval places, and especially what Paul says in Romans 11 (there is MUCH more in the total context of Romans 11, but let's take a close look at Paul's warning here):

17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, 18do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. 19Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. 22Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.


T
TMK Aug 8, 2016

Jeff- what do you think gentile Christians should do for the Jewish people/Israel so as not to be considered haters of the Jewish people and/or Israel?

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Hey TMK,
Quick question first: Did you watch the film? I know before I began to really study the issue & especially the true history of Jewish anti-semitism, I had a compassionate but defensive response. And I totally relegated it to the Roman Catholics (& Muslims) in my mind. Then when I really learned of the theology & statements as early as the "early church fathers" (especially, but not limited to Augustine/Origen), how that trickled down to Luther, Calvin, etc. (they literally quote them more than any other & take it farther), on to the more modern NT Wright, Stephen Sizer, Phillip Maurro's of the world, etc. & see in history exactly how this theology was used/spread & what the end fruits of the true were (not to mention dissecting the just straight up propaganda & lies of movements like Christ at the Checkpoint & so many others locking arms with Muslims against the Jews) this really started to hit home. It's a "heart stance" issue first and foremost. Paul makes that clear. Arrogance or humility? These inward things always eventuality in outward manifestations with implications. Maurro's arrogance caused him to make bombastic statements that we must question the whole NT if Israel was ever formed again (& he died & then it was). Luther's arrogance caused him to write "The Jews & their Lies" & say incredibly amazingly ridiculously hateful & ungodly things. Things Hitler used to carry out the holocaust. And I could go on and on. But what did Corrie Ten Boom's father, Casper, do as a result of his thinking? He hid Jews in his home's walls & lost his life and family doing it. Similarly with Dietreich Bonnheiffer.
Don't take this personally aimed at you, but often When people say, "how does this affect me?" Or "exactly what will you do differently?" It just seems so self-focused, apathetic, & shallow really. Like Abortion. "Well, what will you do differently? You can't change the laws. What difference does it make on my day to day life if I can't change it?" Etc. Etc. the fact is that thoughts/ideas/theologies affect lives/walks/people. I speak out on abortion in every realm and sphere I am given. We must be a people of truth & of principle, & of the scriptures. Arrogance & apathy can be really sneaky to the self of the person operating/walking in & even perpetuating it. Fact is, what would you have done in Germany? If your theology (as was by far the common theology of the day) Replacement Theology/Supercessionism, then you might just see it as God's judgement on those stiff necked Jews (which in some sense it actually could be used by God to awaken them to their Messiah which is a controversial whole other subject that got Art Katz more than a few enemies even in Messainic Believing Circles) & why would you ant to get in God's way with a people He's already forever cursed? Because we are God's people now and have replaced them and there's nothing left for them but God's judgement? Fact is that how you think/believ affects how you speak, teach & act. This is why World Vision (@ the checkpoint) could allow a guy named Mohammed funnel $40,000,000 of donations to Hamas!
So my question before we get into a long thread is two fold:
1.) Did you watch the film? (Barry Horner goes into more specifics on the Protestant church's part outside the film, as does Michael Brown in "Our Hands are stained with blood" as does Joel Richardson in "When a Jew Rules the World" - FYI)
2.) If you lived in Nazi Germany during WW2, what do you think you would have done? If it happened again tomorrow, what would you do?

T
TMK Aug 8, 2016

I haven't watched the film yet (I will) but I have listened to tons of Mike Brown and Art Katz so I have a decent understanding of the issue from their perspective.

I don't know what I would have done. How could I know? Art Katz said that some of the Christians there when they saw Hitler Youth tormenting a Jewish man and trashing his store that they simply closed their blinds. If you would have asked them 10 years earlier what they would do I doubt they would have said "I'd close my blinds."

We have not yet been in situations here where our families might be killed if we do or don't behave a certain way. I don't think any of us can say what we would do for sure. We can say what we HOPE we would do but the best we can do is hope God grants abundant grace in the moment of need for the courage to do the right thing.

But I still think my question is a fair one.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

The first thing any genuine Christian should have done/do is to pray for Israel's salvation through their messiah Jesus .
Everything else is a byproduct.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

But so is mine:

Those German youth who closed their blinds where raised in a German society, & yes, even a German Protestant church theological atmosphere where those Jews out there were just receiving God's judgement of their eternal curse & casting off (words Jesus spoke at times specifically to the Pharisees get wrongly applied to the entire Jewish race for all times) at the hands of the Nazi's, & according to the Replacement Theology/ Supercessationists & such, this was good & should be done. So no wonder they closed the blinds. But when you get to the Ten Boom's or Bonnheiffer, they didn't have that theology & their actions also followed suit. Jesus in the Gospel's, in the immediate context discussing False Teachers and False Teaching, said you will recognize a tree by its fruit. What it produces. What fruit has Replacement Theology/Supercessationism produced historically? It's a lot more than just WW2. Naziism wasn't a "one off oddity". The pogroms, the constant persecutions and expulsions & genocides, the infatadas, etc. But what about those who didn't hold to this theology and took God's Word seriously? They hid them in the walls. They reached out to them. They shared the Gospel with them not from a place of replacement arrogance, but of humility, compassion & eager expectation of the fulfillment of these prophecies!
Yes, the best thing we can do is pray for Isael's salvation & preach the Gospel (and/or support that mission) to the Jews. But you won't be able to do this effectively if you are ignorant or in arrogance of the entire history of what people have done to Jews for centuries in Jesus' name, both catholic & Protestant. It's a heart issue first. A theological issue second. Then an orthopraxy (practice & speech) will flow out from there.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

And FYI - If you watch the film & decide to purchase it (DVD or Vimeo's special edition - helps funds the future films in the series), the Extras are really good question and answer interviews with Joel Richardson, Micahel Brown, Scott Volk, Barry Horner, Dalton Thomas, etc. Good stuff. Really good stuff.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Some "christians" are willingly ignorant of the Jews and Israel's history and God's eternal and unchanging plan for them.
They have within them an ingrained predisposition (from satan) to hate the Jewish nation. Met many myself and seen them here, And unless God brings repentance and illuminates the heart though his Word nothing gonna change,

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

I don't disagree there are some like that (I already discerned such & then the Lord even confirmed such by a dream to me), but some are just plain ignorant (in the purest form of the word by definition - "having a lack of knowledge") of this. My heart is that those who are just ignorant of these things and have read & bought the wrong theology of the NT Wright's, Phillip Mauro's, Stephen Sizer's etc. of the world would have an open heart to see the Lord's heart (& Word) on this matter & reject their arrogance & bad theology. My heart, as in all things where we walk in darkness on a matter, is that we all repent and get in line with the heart, Word & Spirit of God on the matter. And my heart is that I stay humble while people still disagree with my position, but hopefully not my disposition. 😊

T
TMK Aug 8, 2016

Rev- could you explain what you mean when you say "hate?" I personally don't know any Christians who hate the Jewish people or who say they hate them. They may not feel a special place in their heart for them, but perhaps that is what you mean.

Jeff- I understand where you are coming from and you are probably correct.

But I guarantee you that very few evangelicals in America know anything about "replacement theology" and most probably are still rather apathetic about Israel. Oh, they say they care about Israel and the Jewish people but it is an apathetic sort of caring.

Rev indicated we should be praying, which I certainly agree with, but I also asked what else Christians should be doing so as not to be deemed haters of Israel.

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Todd

My sarcastic self is threatening to kick in so therefore I will just leave some
synonyms for the word hate that can be applied in the attitude towards Jewish people. Unfortunately it includes "christians" as well as the usual suspects.

hatred, loathing, detestation, dislike, distaste, abhorrence, abomination, execration, aversion; hostility, enmity, animosity, antipathy, revulsion, disgust, contempt, odium

The number one reason for this satanic hatred is that the messiah and the Word of God came through them. And God is still in the process of fulfilling his ultimate purpose for them .

If there were no Jews there would be no possible way for the fulfilment of God's promises to them. And no second coming of Jesus. It's not going happen like they think

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Thank you Rev for taking the right road & not letting your "sarcastic self kick in". 😉👍
God Bless,
Jeff

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Jeff. Your encouragement to Neil to be a little
nicer had a rebound affect on me!

sermonindex Aug 8, 2016

Praise God! 😉👍🙏🏻☝️💪🏻

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