The Pretrib Rapture???

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Is this pretrib rapture scriptural? Can the idea of a pre-trib rapture before the 7 year tribulation be supported out of the New Testament?

Not trying to be argumentative here. But I thought since we were discussing the mark of the beast may be we might get some discussion to the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture.

There are many Bible teachers of prophecy that are really adamant that this is a cardinal doctrine that one must believe in. Some have even questioned whether one is saved or not if they do not hold to the pre-tribulation rapture.

A noted Bible teacher that I kisten to out of Hawaii has said that this is an attack on the doctrine of imminenece. I'm supposing he means the imminent return of Jesus.

Personally I do not hold to the view of a pre-trip rapture of the church before the 7 year tribulation. For the simple fact I don't see it taught in the New Testament.

But for those in the forum that may hold to such a position. I would love to see the scriptures and go back and reevaluate my position. Personally I like the idea of being taken out of here before the real persecution starts. But then that is my fleshly side speaking.

My understanding is that many of our persecuted brethren in restricted nations do not hold to this pretrib view. They would even argue that they are in the tribulation. Particularly those in North Korea. No doubt they would probably regard the present ruler of North Korea as their Antichrist.

Anyway would like to hear from the forum. Is the pre-trib rapture taught in the New Testament?

Bear/Blaine

Haven't you red my version of the Bible, the RTNV? (Replacement Theological Nonsense Version)
jesus already returned in 70 AD and we were all raptured by then. Even those of us who were not born yet. So your question is redundant. Right now we are in the invisible kingdom age with jesus reigning invisibly on his
invisible throne from the invisible Jerusalem having been invisibly raptured ..... er strike that part about Jerusalem please.

And here is a complete work on the origination of the Pre-Trib Rapture. (goes back to yes, guess who, the RCC) Only 3.99. Read it and decide for yourself.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001MLZJPW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Rapture of the Saints Paperback ”“ 1970
by Rev. Duncan McDougall

If you would like a pdf, you can get it here:

http://emahiser.christogenea.org/Recommended/The%20Rapture%20Of%20The%20Saints.pdf

ABOUT THE AUTHOR
REV. DUNCAN MCDOUGALL,. M.A.
One of Scotland's well-known Gaelic scholars, the Reverend Duncan McDougall graduated at
Edinburgh University in Latin, Greek, Hebrew and Gaelic, taking Gaelic medals, Blackie Prize and MacPherson Scholarship (twice). After leaving college he was Examiner in Hebrew for eleven years to the Free Church College, Edinburg, in which he had taken his theological course. Having been posted to Holland in the First World War, Mr. McDougall had acquired a working knowledge of Dutch, and in expectation of a mission appointment in South America, which, however, did not materialize, he set himself to acquire a working knowledge of Spanish.

He was therefore a linguist of very considerable repute. A devout Christian, Mr. McDougall was ordained to the Ministry of the Free Church of Scotland, a denomination which has long been known for its firm adherence to the teaching of the Holy Scriptures and its repudiation of modernistic and higher critical views. For six years he was Lecturer in Christian Evidences to the Vancouver Bible School, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada. Finally returning to Scotland, he was appointed Minister of the Free Church in Dundoon, a post which he held until his retirement.

PROPHECY AND ITS FULFILLMENT
Many professed Bible Teachers have been busy in Bible studies, conventions, revivals,
religious papers, leaflets, and books, telling with an air of authority (which amount almost to a claim to Divine inspiration), all about the "secret rapture" of the saints and what is to take place on this earth after they are gone. According to their theory the Lord is to come SECRETLY for His saints: they are to be caught up (raptured) to meet Him in the air without the world knowing that anything is happening. All who are unprepared are to be left on earth in an unsaved state, then an individual known as the "Antichrist' is to make his appearance, to assume power as a world Dictator, to revive the old Roman Empire as a ten-kingdomed confederacy, and to rule over it, to make a covenant with the Jews to allow them to set up again their temple worship in Jerusalem, and at the end of three-and-a-half years, to break the covenant and persecute them. After seven years Christ is to come back with His saints to destroy the Anti-Christ and set up His reign of a thousand years on this earth. All these things are described in as much detail as if they were actually taught in the Bible, and even some good men have got the impression that the Bible does actually contain them.

It will come as a shock to many good people that not only is this teaching not in the Bible, but that it was originated by the Bible's worst enemies. If Christians would only study God's Word, coming to the Bible with an open mind instead of coming with their heads filled with the teachings of human and fallible men whom they treat as if inspired, they would not be so readily 'carried away with [this] wind of doctrine'. If they would accept the teaching of Christ that "a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit," or the warning given to Daniel that "none of the wicked shall understand," they would know better than to expect to get a clean bird out of a foul nest.

The pity is that so many choose to remain ignorant of the nest out of which the bird has come, and so, "professing themselves to be wise," they proclaim their ignorance as it were on the house-tops. To these "blind leaders of the blind," ignorance is a Pearl of Great Price, and to offer them any enlightenment on historical facts is an attempt to rob them of their precious jewel. If any of them have ever read any of the writings of the Reformers on the subject of Prophecy, they seldom by the slightest allusion betray the fact. Being neither willing to admit, nor able to refute, the wisdom of all these mighty Spirit-taught men of God, our modem Bible Teachers studiously ignore them, and speak as if they themselves were the people, and wisdom had been born with them. One would never guess from the writings of these "Bible Teachers" that any expositor existed earlier than J. N. Darby. Naturally to tell them the truth is to become their enemy.

Bill,

It doesn't matter unless it moves you away from Christ as it did to the Chinese church during the Mao Tse Tung, "Purge".

by narrowpath on 2016/8/23 16:05:40

I wonder if we can conclude this debate before the rapture takes place, be it pre-post or midtrib.

You never know, we may have to pray the Lord to tarry before we meet Him in the air. ;-)

Then again, the Bible says He can come at any moment.

Anything that causes believers not to "stay awake", be ready, & be prepared to endure tribulation into the end is potentially problematic. Corrie Ten Boom often spoke of how the Pre-Trib Secret rapture theory crippled those in WW2. Theologically/Eschatologically/Philosophically, it's called "Escapism".

I agree with previous posters that Joe Schimmel's "Left Behind or Led Astray?" Does the best job of explaining & showing this theological error's founders, history, etc.

And I agree with JFW that we are seeing, at the very least, the pre-alignments in the Middle East & in the world (Biblical prophecy is thoroughly Jerusalem, then Israel, then Middle East, then to the rest of the world - centric. In that order).

I remember getting radically saved, spending 10-12+ hours sometimes a day reading the scriptures (I was locked up - it was God's grace & plan to give me time to grow in & read/study the scriptures & bathe in the Word of God early on) & thinking after having read the whole Bible through and through - "Secret Pre-Trib Rapture? Where on earth do they get that?" Like most theological errors, it comes from not having a thorough, wholistic, expositional, contextual understanding of the "full counsel of the Word of Godl on the subject & just having "ISO-proof text" (eisogesis) arguments out of context by certain "enlightened ones" who "found it" & then a huge echo chamber somehow carried it down through the ages. That charismatic liberal guy in Europe (defrocked for impropriety) started it, maybe adopted from a South American Jesuit priest, & then John Nelson Darby pontificated it further, tried to use it to exercise control over the Plymouth brethren movement & split the movement drawing disciples after himself, then CI Schofield's bible commentary notes really propagated it as scripture because it was written in scripture (at the bottom notes, but people wrongly treat it as "Bible"), and on and on. Of course Tim Lahaye & Jerry Jenkins most recently put it on the map worldwide in the last couple decades. Kirk Cameron, who starred in the original films, changed to Post-Trib after watching & listening to Joel Schimmel's teaching on the subject. It is quintessential "escapism". I know this experientially too from discussions with friends and close family over the subject & "why" they won't disbelieve it naturally when shown the clear passages. It's also important to note that it's almost entirely a Western doctrine. Similarly to Replacement theology, a metaphorical millineaum, and other mostly western doctrines.
God Bless,
Jeff

Matthew 24:29-31New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Glorious Return
29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from [a]the sky, and the powers of [b]the heavens will be shaken. 30 And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His [c]elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

1 Corithians 15:51-52

Behold I tell you a mystery, we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imoerishable and we will be changed.

1 Thessalonuans 4:16-17

For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with a voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and we shall always be with the Lord.

_______________________________________

Brothers I ask your forgiveness as I am theologically challenged. I mean compared to people like brother Jeff and brother Julius I am a spiritual pynmy. So please forgive me if I stick to the simple written word of God and pose this question.

Are the verses above describing one resurrection event for two separate resurrection events.

I pose this question to my betters in this forum.

Submitted respectfully.

Cameron came out & boldly admitted himself & actually shares it publicly and advocates for and recommends Schimmel's video teaching on the subject. You can probably find it on YouTube I bet

Here is the official YouTube DVD trailer on the teaching that has Kirk in it himself, & Ray Comfort, Joel Richardson, quotes from Charles Spurgeon & George Mueller, etc.

https://youtu.be/N9iRT91_pyo