Just Joint

Hello everyone who loves the Lord and/or seeks him and his kingdom. I am very happy to see that there is still a remnant left who is earnestly striving to know HIM.

I have to start with an apology because as much as I would love to share my whole testimony my own experience and my heritage has brought forth many sceptics and lots of carefulness (not sure if that is the right word) from which I am one of the greatest. But I will under constrain share a little bit and than submit one question that made me join this forum.
(if that belongs to another area the moderator may move the threat)

I was raised conservativ and asked Jesus in young age in my heart because I didn't want to go to hell.
But nothing really changed.
In my youth I found that the Lord is really using his word to speak to me. I also had periods where I seeked him very earnestly. During that time I had definitive prayer answers which still amaze me and would be worth sharing.
Because I keeped confessing sin to the Lord and periodically started afresh with more determination not to sin which worked for some time I really believed that I was free from sin. Bcause everyone says there is no sinless perfection.

After some time I got introduced to paul washer. I agreed on all his self examine messages without thinking that it may concern me. One day I heart the sermon "The man Jesus" which I think is the best sermon that is on video and audio. (maybe someone likes to challenge that😉) I was really thankful for a savior like that. But had after it other things to do.
Then few minutes later totally unexpectedly the reality of God was revealed to me in a way which totally redefined reality and truth to me. After I stood up from a pool of tears I had the peace and the witness of the holy spirit that between me and God everything is all right.
I was free from known sins and all the desire to fall back.
I had an real love and desire for Christ and many other things happend.
With that a burden came for all my people that seem to be stuck in selfdeception like I was. I have many reasons to think that which I don't want to share now but I think that is something not unfamiliar to you guys.

My question there for is:
Is there any material or questions that addresses the issue how to try people which want to join a church or ministry or receive baptism to know if they are self deceived or truly born again.
I was thinking about a series of questions which leave no escape except for direct lying.
I think that according to my experience only the gospel like I heard it and a meeting with God itself can break the strongest veil. But I was wondering because I heart that some ministers have certain questions they ask to find out. Maybe someone knows.

God Bless you all

by Andrev
My question there for is:
Is there any material or questions that addresses the issue how to try people which want to join a church or ministry or receive baptism to know if they are self deceived or truly born again.
I was thinking about a series of questions which leave no escape except for direct lying.
I think that according to my experience only the gospel like I heard it and a meeting with God itself can break the strongest veil. But I was wondering because I heart that some ministers have certain questions they ask to find out. Maybe someone knows.

It is not my intention to be rude but I am straightforward and in the questions that you have asked, it doesn't seem like there is any trust whatsoever in the Holy Spirit.

Did you bring yourself out of self-deception? Or did the Holy Spirit work a work in you to bring you out? You have to trust the Holy Spirit that He will work that same work in other people as well.

We MUST give people as much time as God has given us and is still giving to us!! Is God finished with you yet? Well then imagine that He is not finished with other people yet either!

God bless you,
Lisa

Hey Andrev,

I am not a pastor but in my interaction with people who say they are Christian I always gently challenge the reality of their belief by asking them: "How do you know you are a Christian?"
If their answer reflects a trusting in own good works and not in the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, well then we can have a discussion and try to move the person from self trust to trust in Christ alone.
No matter where people come from or from what religious background our focus as witnesses should always be Jesus Christ, Who He is and what He has done.

God bless,

Question:Is there any material or questions that addresses the issue how to try people which want to join a church or ministry or receive baptism to know if they are self deceived or truly born again.

While I always believe it is best to receive all men/women by faith I also believe that the only real thing we look for is fruit, Jesus said you will know the tree by it fruit, Galatians gives us a list Now the fruit of the spirit is: Gal 5:22
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Eph 5:9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Jhn 13:35
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

With all honesty though from the tone of your request, I think it is best that salvation is left up to God and faithfully ministering grace and love, the Word of God, those are the things entrusted in our hands, just to list a few. If you are a pastor you have to be a patient farmer with the outcome being that you desire fruit in the lives of your flock, no man takes this responsibility on themselves lightly since they personally will give an account before the Lord personally on the day of Judgement. What you sound to be like is one who is in some type of deliverance type ministry mindset? The pitfall I see is one where you may have a tendency to approach everyone as if... as if they are deceived and you are right , as if they really are not born again and you have the proper way....etc....but we both know that is self deception and not at all the way of the Lord.

For the raising of a body of believers the model Jesus had was proper, Follow me.... Paul put this way...Follow me AS I follow Christ, than to see people set free, just teach the truth, the simple truth of the Word of God, it's only that truth that can truly make men/women free. BroDMiller

Firstly I like to thank you all for all answers and especially your honest concern.
I hope I can be more clear in addressing everone.
It would be so much easier to share more about my background to calm you guys down but I would expose more than love is allowing me.

Lisa I agree with you that it's all the work of the spirit which giveth life. But God uses people which have the spirit to call everyone to repent and preach the gospel.
In my case someone first plowed (because you can't sow between the thorns) than planted, lifted up Christ and than God gave sight and life.
We need also to consider that you don't grow slowly into a born again new creature. That happens instantly. The seed which was planted may grow in the heart of an lost person which eventually may lead into repentance. Than as a new born baby you start growing into maturity. My question aim at the fruits and changes which occur right after someone became a new creature.
The problem that I'm facing is that from where I come from it seems that just everyone assumes everyone knows the gospel. In reality it's mostly just words without meaning. As soon you ask questions they look at you bewildered. For me that gospel was totally new. Since that it's clear for me why my people have so many problems and so little fruit. Mostly it's no fruit or some bad fruit. There is no real interest or desire in the Person of Christ. That is my biggest alarm bell. There is to much trust in religion and activities or works. Not all are that way. Some earnest honest people start really searching for answers but come to quick to solution where there put the hands down and sit again in the trap. Add: I hear them groaning under bondage but since they believe that they believe they don't look for a savior. End add. I know some people where the evidence is shown but most of them don't know self deception therfore don't know how to deal with it.
I'm not judging them to feel better than the rest but I really feel compassion with them and it breaks me that I can't do anything to help. I know that I have to show them Christ but as some old preachers and the word say you also have to plow the ground with the word beforehand. Of course everything by prayer and his spirit. I hope that clarifies something.
Shortly after I was converted I started self examination through the word. I also found the book "A sure guide to heaven" and many more heart searching traks and sermons. Which helped me to try the spirits as 1.John says. Because before I was converted i just believed I had the witness of the spirit but had no idea.

Quote:I'm not judging them to feel better than the rest but I really feel compassion with them and it breaks me that I can't do anything to help.

Mar 3:27
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

Mark 3 is a very insightful chapter