Why should we not pray for persecution?

1 Peter 1:5-7

You are being protected by God's power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. You rejoice in this, though now for a short time you have had to struggle in various trials so that the genuineness of your faith--more valuable than gold, which perishes though refined by fire-- may result in praise, glory, and honor at the
at the revelatiom of Jesus Chriat.

1 Peter 4:1-2

Therefore, since Christ suffered In the flesh, equip yourselves also with the same resolve-- because the one who suffered In the Flesh has finished with sin-- in order to live the remaining time in the flesh, no longer for human desires, but for God's will.

James 1:2-4

Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. But endurance must do its complete work, so that you may be mature and complete, lacking nothing.

Romabs 5:1-5

Therefore, since we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have also obtained access through him by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also rejoice in our afflictions because we know that affliction produces endurance, endurance produces proven character, and proven character produces hope. This hope will not disappoint us because God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
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If God uses persecution to refine our faith in Christ?. If God uses persecution to purify our faith in Christ. If God uses persecution to mature our faith in Christ. If God uses persecution to develop the character of Christ within us. If we are to rejoice in our afflictions and trials because God is molding the character of Christ within us.

Then what is wrong in asking God to send persecution that are fairh will be purified, refined, and our character be perfected as unto Christ?

Bear,

Why pray for God to send it to you, when you can go get some anytime you want? And you can get some persecution in America, right now. Just live godly (all those who live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution). You can embrace the cross and deprive your flesh (lusts), now if you want to be refined by the Holy Spirit and suffer in the flesh. Anyone who embraces the cross will suffer in the flesh. You don't have to have your eyes poked out to fulfill that scripture.

Persecuted people don't pray for it or wish for it because they can't bring themselves to obey God and so they ask God for a little help in making them obey Him.

It is the Spirit that sanctifies, not physical pain and deprivation. Pain and deprivation usually test our hearts (the results are unpredictable), but do not sanctify our hearts.

Only the Spirit can sanctify our hearts and He does not require persecution as a tool.

2 Th 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT and belief of the truth:

1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

I have never heard people praying for sickness, pain, poverty, loneliness, hatred against them, etc, etc.

I see totally what TMK is saying. Makes perfect common sense.

However/also, on the other thread of the Chinese underground churches praying for persecution (who also have in the past asked us in the West NOT to pray the persecution is taken away but that they are faithful in it & God is glorified & grows the church to thrive through it) for America, I also have NO problem & understand such a potential "prophetic burden" in prayer. When you see DECADES of talk about revival in the West but the same old same old, praying for the Lord to use "whatever it takes" so that the lost are awakened to reality from their spiritual drunken stupor (judgement, calamities, whatever) & also whatever it takes to awaken the church en made to WAKE UP (I can hear Ian Paisley crying out "wake up you sleepy Christians" in my head 😊) be it persecution, trials, etc. then I don't see that as inherently "wrong" or "morbid" either. Question is, we're such prayers birthed in the spirit of prophecy from the thron room & actually the heart of the Father, or the mind of man. The apostles didn't have to/need to ever pray such a thing. Persecution was everywhere they went. So I think that observation/differentiation should at least be noted before just "quoting specific examples in scripture". Just like how the apostles never specifically spoke up about abortion (it was big in Baal worship LONG BEFORE their day & is now, but not so much during the apostolic era), why they never speak on "Gay Marriage" (such an oxymoron never existed until recently), etc.

by jeffmar1130 on 2016/9/2 15:36:24

Question is, we're such prayers birthed in the spirit of prophecy from the thron room & actually the heart of the Father, or the mind of man.

That is easy to find out. Do we see such a thing in the Scriptures? Do we see that character attribute in the prayers of Jesus for the Church before He ascended? Or Paul, or any of the Apostles. Afterall, they were experiencing persecution as you say on a constant basis. If it was such a great thing, I wonder why Paul and Peter were not telling everyone to git themselves some. Man, this is good stuff!

dohzman, I gave that same scripture in the other thread but it was glossed over. Thank you for posting it again. That is the will of God. His Word is His will.

Yes, and we even know the "sword" is a metaphor for truth, which divides (cuts asunder) people. In other words, divine truth revealed, causes people to make a decision where they stand. With Jesus or not with Him (which is really against him).

But yeah, Jesus said when persecution comes, flee. So, He is not in agreement with us praying for persecution to come upon our brethren. What we should want people to know is how powerful the Spirit is in changing us if we yield to Him.

I guess everyone has given up on the Spirit changing people in America so now they are saying, "just bring some good old persecution on them."

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Matthew 10:23 New International Version (NIV)

23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

This is a good scripture as it says "when" persecution should be expected if we are doing the right thing. Not from everyone but some will react in this way. Our Lord gives us a clear teaching on loving our enemies in response. also:

Matthew 5:11-12 New International Version (NIV)

11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

It is one of the foundational teachings of our Lord that it "will" come and we should except it and how to react when it comes.

Again if we are not being persecuted at all, we have to question if we are living in full obedience to our Lord and the Gospel.

In the book of Hebrews we read:

Hebrews 11:35New International Version (NIV)

35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. There were others who were tortured, refusing to be released so that they might gain an even better resurrection.

There were believers who could have got off "easy" but they choose to stand for the Gospel and where persecuted and become martyrs for the Gospel. We can choose to not be persecuted as much by our actions and lack of verbally sharing the Gospel with those who do not want to hear it.

In China the great revival will stop tomorrow if they stop verbally sharing the gospel. What will also stop is persecution and imprisonment for the same thing!

Yeah, it's not always about soldiers taking your homes and locking you up.

How many who have come to Christ have had to choose between Him and their family members? Probably all of us. And then your earthly family turns on you in many and various ways. How many are persecuted at work because you stand for Jesus? And how many are persecuted by other "church" friends because you won't engage in the same things that they think it is ok to engage in? Now, this present government is persecuting Christians albeit in subtle ways right now.

Great posts Greg & TMK!

One other thing I have thought of:

Often we take that verse "if they persecute you in one place, flee to another" as an all encompassing command for all people to all times and all places. I'm not sure it's an absolutized scriptural command to everyone everywhere forever. It may have a generally applicable principle, but isn't "absolute" to all men throughout all ages in all places. It was given to the disciples for an immediate contextual application on a specific application for them. And there have been MANY missionaries & great men & women of God called NOT TO FLEE at times, but stay and be a witness in tough places under persecution. My good friend David Servant (whom is on the site and js preached at SI Conferences) has many ministries. One of them is to North Koreans who escape to China. One such young girl was found by a brother in China & taken in. Though hard to the Gospel at first, she softened & eventually came to Jesus. She began reading scripture & studying God's Word day and night. And what did this beautiful young Korean conclude the spirit of God was leading her to do? Yep, sneak back into N Korea to be a faithful witness to all of her lost friends/family, etc.!! Similar testimonies are known in Syria & other such places to this day. So just because Jesus said it in scripture to His 12 disciples in this one instance, I don't think it's a blanket statement for all people in all times/places forever necessarily. We must be led by the spirit.

Similarly, the "if they don't receive you, shake the dust off your feet & move on to another city" instruction Jesus specifically gave his disciples one time in scripture also isn't necessarily a "proof text" of absolute doctrine for everyone in all times. If you've done much evangelism in the USA in the last 2 decades, you've probably wondered about this at some point 😊.

Just an observation when thinking about these passages.

God uses persecution to refine our faith in Christ?. If God uses persecution to purify our faith in Christ. If God uses persecution to mature our faith in Christ. If God uses persecution to develop the character of Christ within us. If we are to rejoice in our afflictions and trials because God is molding the character of Christ within us.

Then what is wrong in asking God to send persecution that are fairh will be purified, refined, and our character be perfected as unto Christ?

Very good questions, and I can understand your reasoning, Bear.

I know all things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purposes. I also know that God uses sickness in people's lives but I don't pray for people to get sick. I know some people who have a very deep walk with God because their spouse left them but I don't pray for more divorces.

I think Christians have a tendency to get their eyes on the tool that God uses in some lives and then think this same exact tool should be good for everyone. The problem is that it is God's decision what tool to use in someone's life, not ours. We also have a tendency to glorify the tool and we forget that it is the work of the Spirit in a person's life that is bringing change.

Hopefully, we can understand that it is the love and grace of God working in someone's life, which are good things to pray for rather than to pray for more sickness, or divorces or persecution.

I don't ever believe I have heard of Joni Erickson Tada praying that more people get paralyzed just because God used it mightily in her life. I don't think she glorifies paralysis, but rather she glorifies the Lord.

Simply my thoughts, bro.

3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Yes TMK,
I don't disagree. Of course she wasn't seeking persecution by going back in, but we all know severe persecution is likely what she will get in N Korea at some point. So it's not apples to oranges with what the Chinese underground church were praying, but we all know they have real persecution there and we don't here. Let's not compare our "persecution" (family, friends, work, Guy cussing you out on the street, etc.) as an equivalent with N Korean, or apostolic era Jewish, or Islamic, etc. persecution. I believe the Chinese church was essentially praying "lord, do whatever it takes to grow them, even persecution if that's what it takes."

We are not to compare ourselves with one another. Everyone has challenges in their own situation. We are called to encourage and pray for one another not wish harm on each other.

I don't wish the "pleasures" that the West has on any Christian. Some of you know what I mean. For some reason, people think it is easy being a Christian in the "land of plenty".

We all have the same Enemy who is just as able to deceive and trap and wear you out no matter what country you live in.

It doesn't matter what is happening externally to us, it all comes down to what is happening in our heart. People can backslide in any country and as well they can overcome in any country.