Baptism - is it 'for' or 'because of' the remission of sins?

I have been doing a study on this subject because there has been a tugawar within me on this and some around me who are telling me what it really means.

'eis' is the Greek word for this and apparently it is a preposition. I have heard a few people and read a few commentaries say that it is actually referencing 'because of. Yet I am finding much more commentary that 'eis' is looking forward and not backward which means that in context it is saying baptism for the remission of sins and not 'because of' the remission of sins.

Now. Catholic and Lutherans have this teaching as well as the Church of Christ. To my knowledge every other Christian denom would say it is 'because of' or that baptism is a grace to wash away Adam's in and the person needs to fulfill their baptism by believing and repanting at some point in their life. This is what i am come to see at the church I attend.......I don't agree with it.

Have any of you done a study on this 'FOR' as it relates to baptism and the remission of sins?

I did hear a podcast commentary that mentioned baptism was given, and tongues, for confirmation to the Jews that the gentiles received salvation and only in a couple of instances were people saved before they were baptized such as Acts 10:44-49.

I am seeking to understand this. Can you provide me more input that I may not know in this area?

Briefly, I will just say this...

I had a migraine headache today, and I mentioned it to my coworker.

He said, "you should take some Advil for your headache", and so I did!

I may say more about it (the subject of this thread) later!

Savannah

Your post is as if you are drunk and started to respond to my post but then something else got your attention and you went away. It is irrational to my question.

Savannah appears to be analogizing the taking of Advil for a headache with being baptized for the remission of sins.

Sorry John...I'll bow out now!

...but...I wasn't drunk! Just to clarify.

TMK

Yeah, I could see where that was going but it wasn't not going to answer my question though it was going to sound good.

From 1 Peter:{3:18} For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: {3:19}
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in
prison; {3:20} Which sometime were disobedient, when
once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight
souls were saved by water. {3:21} The like figure
whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the
putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a
good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus
Christ: {3:22} Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right
hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made
subject unto him."

Without the shedding of blood, there is NO remission of sins, therefore baptism in itself cannot remit / cleanse sins, but it is a public statement of faith in the dead and risen Messiah, Jesus Christ and an identifying of the individual being baptized with the death and resurrection of Christ for sinners. "the answer of a good conscience to God"

Blessings,

also, Paul said he did not baptize many, because he was called to preach the gospel, not to baptize. He was not saying baptism was not important, but secondary to the preaching of the gospel and having people believe and thereby be "saved" (regenerated)

If baptism was a priority or necessity for regeneration, would Paul (and the other apostles) not emphasized it more?

Blessings,

The NT pattern seems to be that baptism immediately followed conversion such that the two were almost synonymous. In other words if you professed Christ you were immediately baptized. I am not saying this happened every time but it seemed to be the accepted practice.

It is a bigger issue today because most churches have quarterly or less baptisms and people have to sign up and attend a class to be baptized so people put it off and it is not stressed as absolutely essential for a person professing Christ.

I don't believe baptism is required for salvation but nonetheless it is essential in my view and I would question the conversion of any person who does not want to be baptized or who puts it off. It was essential to Jesus who commanded that new believers be baptized so it should be essential for any professing believer.

Incidently I attended a Church Bible study last night because my daugther goes there for awana. There they discussed about Baptism and its significance. The preacher there said Baptism is not for salvation. I kind of agree with him.

But here is a word to balance it. John 3:5-5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So being born of water is very important for entering the Kingdom of God. In my Church we do not allow those who have not taken baptism to break bread.

I believe when a person is genuinely born again they will go for water Baptism. If a person is still deciding on water Baptism then it means they are not fully born again.

I did not know the relationship between baptism and salvation when I took Baptism. But my only motive was to announce to the world that I am now going to live for Jesus. That was the day when I announced my Hindu parents that I am going to live as a Christian going forward. My persecution started from that day! My own parents and siblings started hating me.

Here is a post from the Internet that explains it quite well. I pray it is helpful to clarify:
Baptism

by Bob Vradenburgh

There are so many different views on baptism held by the various denominations, that about the only thing shared in common is the word itself. Surely this confusion is of Satan, when that which started almost 2,000 years ago as a simple, beautiful ordinance has now become cluttered with man's traditions and reasoning.

What is the real meaning of baptism? Who qualifies to be baptized? Do I have to be baptized? How is baptism to be administered?

This tract will attempt to answer these crucial questions from God's Word, the Bible.

I. The True Meaning of Baptism

Baptism is the only true expression of one's profession of faith in Christ as Savior and Lord that is set forth in the New Testament. It is a true picture of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. When a person is scripturally baptized, he is openly identifying himself with Christ, acknowledging that he has both died and is raised again.1 He has died to self, to sin, and to false religion, and he has been resurrected spiritually. "Old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."2

In the early days of Christianity, the sign or badge of being a follower of Christ was baptism. Christians were hated and persecuted. A man might profess Christ as much as he liked, but until he submitted to baptism he was not willing to be "branded for Christ". He wore no badge that identified him with the despised Nazarene in the eyes of the world.

Today, Christianity as an institutionalized religion is much more fashionable (at least in the western world), but the badge remains the same. Are you a believer of Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord? Have you sincerely repented of sin and received His mercy and forgiveness? Then PROVE IT by publicly wearing the "badge"?

II. Baptism is for Believers Only

The ony persons who received Christian baptism in the New Testament record were clearly believers already. When the Ethiopian eunuch asked Philip the evangelist, "What doth hinder me to be baptized?", Philip answered,"IF THOU BELIEVEST with all thine heart, thou mayest."3 The divine order given in the Book of Acts is as follows: 1) receiving the word, 2) being baptized, and 3) being added to the church.4

The practice of baptizing infants or children is wholly without any scripture support or precedent. Furthermore, it is dangerous, because it often causes a child to grow up with the deception that he must be a Christian, although he has never experienced conversion. This writer has had good fellowship with a fine Christian man who thanked God for his being delivered from a scheduled baptism as a very young child. He went on to serve in the Vietnam conflict, where God used the fear of immanent death to prepare his heart to receive the Gospel. He testified that if he had been baptized as a child, he would no doubt have nurtured a false security about his soul.

Are you secretly cherishing a hope of Heaven because you were sprinkled as a baby in some religious service? the Bible says, "There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."5 May God awaken you out of a false hope!

III. Baptism is Commanded by God

It is everywhere assumed in the New Testament that a true convert to Christ will be willing to be baptized.6 Baptism is a command, the first step of obedience for the "babe in Christ."7

This is not to say that baptism is an essential part of salvation. God justifies (declares righteous) the sinner who puts faith in Christ as his atoning Savior, apart from works - even good works, like baptism!8 Baptism does not cause God to justify a man. The Bible says that we are justified "freely (i.e., without a cause) by His grace."9

A classic example of this justification apart from works is the repentant thief who turned in simple faith to Christ hanging on the cross. Jesus assured him that he would be with Himself in Paradise that same day.10 This condemned man had no chance to be baptized, of course. His hands and feet were nailed. He was dying. Yet did he acknowledge "Jesus as Lord" and King while many were scorning and rejecting Christ.

Quite clearly, then, baptism is the divinely appointed means of a public profession. Providential circumstances (terminal illiness, chronic condition, a "hole" in the throat, etc.) may remove this obligation, as in the case of the thief on the cross. To any unprejudiced mind, the issue is the WILL, not the WATER! No man can dictate terms to God by pretending to trust Christ while refusing to down into the "watery grave" with Him.

The waters of baptism can never wash away sin. Only the blood of Christ can do that.11 Baptism is vital to our assurance, however, and, together with the blood and the Spirit, constitutes the three-fold witness on earth.12

Baptism is not optional for the Christian!

IV. Baptism is by Immersion in Water

The method of baptizing by sprinkling or pouring was introduced into churches when infant baptism began to be practiced centuries ago. Both infant baptism and sprinkling as a method of baptism are unscriptural. The Bible says that John (the Baptist) baptized in the Jordan near Salim "because there was much water there".13 When Philip baptized the eunuch, they both went down "into the water".14 The Greek word "baptizo" itself means to be submerged or immersed. Nothing less could picture a burial!

If you were baptized before you received Christ, or if you have only been sprinkled, you have not been scripturally baptized! Will you honestly face this matter before God in the light of His holy Word?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To confess Christ openly before men by means of baptism requires humility. Just as Naaman the leper was insulted by the prophet Elisha's command to go and dip seven times in the muddy Jordan River, so proud sinners today often "balk" at the command of baptism.

I pleadwith you, dear reader, surrender your will completely to God! Receive forgiveness for all your sins through the shed blood of Jesus who died for you and rose again. Believe on Him from the heart, and confess Him openly with the mouth.16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned."17

All Scriptures are KJV
1 Romans 6:4
2 2 Corinthians 5:17
3 Acts 8:36,37
4 Acts 2:41
5 Proverbs 16:25
6 Acts 2:41, 16:32
7 Mark 16:16
8 Ephesians 2:8,9
9 Romans 3:24
10 Luke 23:43
11 Leviticus 17:11; Hebrews 9:22,26
12 1 John 5:8; Hebrews 10:22; 1 Peter 3:21
13 John 3:23
14 Acts 8:38
15 2 Kings 5:10-12
16 Romans 10:9,10
17 Mark 16:16

also, Paul said he did not baptize many, because he was called to preach the gospel, not to baptize. He was not saying baptism was not important, but secondary to the preaching of the gospel and having people believe and thereby be "saved" (regenerated)

If baptism was a priority or necessity for regeneration, would Paul (and the other apostles) not emphasized it more?

Blessings,

Something I am beginning to notice, and your post somewhat points it out. is that Paul doesn't emphasize baptism like Peter does. Paul seems to emphasize the law and sin yet Peter is about repentance and baptism. Yeah, Paul didn't come baptizing but to preach the Gospel

A follow up question then is what is the context to why Peter seemed to place an emphasis on baptism as well especially when the word 'for' in in there and not because of? How does 'for' work in that situation because this 'eis', from what I am reading does not looking backward. in essence it seems to say both repentance and baptism happen for remission of sins vs baptism happens for remission of sins because of repentance. Does that make sense?

Also, how did the early church, before the reformation teach this salvation? I ask because cults spring up to say the church got it wrong so we are here to make it right.

I am interested in what everyones thoughts about this is ? :

What the Early Christians Believed About Baptism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9RGxS4wkMI

I have posted this already, my only point in believing that Baptism is essential for salvation is based on this scripture. How do others see it? Please do not tell me Jesus preached Old Covenant. I do not believe in that. Again I am very much open to ideas, I believe the truth is in the middle, it is both essential and also non essential for Salvation.

John 3:5-5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

RE: /// How do others see it?///

I personally am not conviced that being dunked under water could be said to be : "born of water"

I personally feel that it is probably more in association with these scriptures that seem to imply that By Believing on Jesus a well that flows rivers of Living water is born :

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

HI Sree, in the context of the time and the fact that John the Baptist had been baptizing in the Jordan river unto repentance, Jesus was emphasizing that baptism ( an outward sign) was not sufficient for entrance into the spiritual kingdom, but one has to be born of the Spirit.

One commentator states:

"Baptism, considered merely as a rite, and apart from the operation of the Spirit, does not and cannot impart the new life. Without the Spirit it is a lie. It is a truthful sign only as the sign of an inward and spiritual grace"

Further commentary:
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
5. of water and of the Spirit””A twofold explanation of the "new birth," so startling to Nicodemus. To a Jewish ecclesiastic, so familiar with the symbolical application of water, in every variety of way and form of expression, this language was fitted to show that the thing intended was no other than a thorough spiritual purification by the operation of the Holy Ghost. Indeed, element of water and operation of the Spirit are brought together in a glorious evangelical prediction of Ezekiel (Eze 36:25-27), which Nicodemus might have been reminded of had such spiritualities not been almost lost in the reigning formalism. Already had the symbol of water been embodied in an initiatory ordinance, in the baptism of the Jewish expectants of Messiah by the Baptist, not to speak of the baptism of Gentile proselytes before that; and in the Christian Church it was soon to become the great visible door of entrance into "the kingdom of God," the reality being the sole work of the Holy Ghost (Tit 3:5)

Yes. I believe it is for and because of the remission of sins.

There is a real baptism into the death of Jesus Christ that occurs when we surrender our life to Him and are born again. There cannot be a rebirth without a death. To enter into the new covenant we must sacrifice ourself to Him. He died for us and so we, in taking part of the new covenant, must die as well. We die to self, to the old man, in complete surrender to Him and are raised again unto new life.

The baptism described in Romans 6 is this very real baptism.

Water baptism is the picture of the true baptism. It is a rite that we perform because we have truly experienced death, burial, and resurrection through Christ. It is entirely possible to have both occur at once, that is we are physically baptized and at the same time surrender ourselves to God as a living sacrifice and are born again simultaneous to being baptized in water, but this is usually the exception rather than the rule.

So my answer is Yes. Baptism is both for the remission of sins (There is a very real baptism that Paul describes quite well in Romans 6) and because of remission of sins (We then follow in water baptism as a rite symbolizing the true baptism of which it is a picture.)

I know this one is quite lengthy, brethren, but I believe it answers a lot of our questions. This is by Watchman Nee:

There is not the slightest doubt that whosoever believes in the Lord Jesus has eternal life. We have preached this glad news for many years. As soon as one believes in the Lord Jesus, whoever he may be, he receives eternal life and is thereby forever favored by God. But let us remember: believing without being baptized is not yet salvation. Indeed, you have believed; indeed, you have eternal life; but you are not yet reckoned as a saved person in the eyes of the world. As long as you are not baptized, you will not be recognized as saved. Why? Because no one knows your difference from the rest of the world. You must rise up and be baptized, declaring the termination of your relationship with the world; then and only then are you saved.

What is baptism? It is your emancipation from the world. It frees you from the brotherhood to which you once belonged. The world knew that you were one with it, but the moment you are baptized, it immediately becomes aware of the fact that you are finished with it. The friendship which you had maintained so many years has now come to an end. You were buried in the tomb, you terminated your course in the world. Before baptism, you knew you had eternal life; after baptism, you know you are saved. Everybody recognizes that you are the Lord’s, for you belong to Him.

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved.” Why? Because having believed and been baptized, it is now an open fact where one stands. Were there no faith, there would not be that inward fact which alone makes things real. But with that inward reality, baptism puts one outside of the world and terminates the former relationship with the world. Baptism, therefore, is separation.

NO BAPTISM, NO TESTIMONY

"But he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.” Disbelief alone is enough for condemnation. As long as one belongs to the world brotherhood, his disbelief seals his condemnation. In contrast, he who believes must be baptized, for as long as he is not baptized, he has not come out of the world in outward testimony.

We discover three amazing facts in the religious world of Judaism, Hinduism and Islamism.

(a) Judaism persecutes the baptized. Among the Jews, a person may be a secret Christian without being persecuted. The greatest difficulty with many hundreds and thousands of Jews is not in believing the Lord Jesus but rather in being baptized. Once the person is baptized he is liable to be cast out and disowned.

(b) Hinduism ostracizes the baptized. In India, no one will lay hands on you if you remain unbaptized. But as soon as you are baptized, you will be ostracized. It is as if the world permits you to have eternal life but stands against anyone being baptized.

(c) Islamism murders the baptized. The reaction of Islamism is more severe. It is rare to find a living Mohammedan who has turned Christian, for the Moslems kill those that do. One of the most successful workers among the Mohammedans, Dr. Zwemer, once declared that his work would never be big since the results of his labor all ended in death; no one lived on. Among the Mohammedans, those who believe must immediately be sent away or else within two or three days after baptism they will be murdered.

Baptism is a public announcement that declares, "I have come out of the world.” Never take the word "salvation” purely in the personal sense. According to the Bible, it is more a matter of coming out of the world than of escaping hell.

2. UNTO THE REMISSION OF SINS.

"And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins” (Acts 2:38). Does the word of the apostle sound strange in our ears? Again, many Protestants seem to have difficulty with this verse so plainly spoken by the apostle. In what way can baptism lead to the forgiveness of sins? Is it not strange that the apostle does not lay stress on "believing” in his message?

We may ask ourselves whether Peter in this message recorded in Acts 2 is seeking to persuade people to believe. Not at all. Is this a reflection upon Peter’s ability to preach the gospel? Is his preaching inferior to ours? Is his presentation inadequate? We know that, according to the whole Bible, the most important point touching the gospel is belief. How then is it that Peter overlooks such a cardinal feature? He can omit other less important aspects but surely not this one. Yet strangely enough, he speaks on baptism instead of on faith, and the Holy Spirit causes a pricking of the hearts of those who listen to him. In accordance with orthodoxy, we would claim that faith alone is necessary; but Peter declares that his hearers must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Why is it that Peter speaks only of baptism? It is because all of his hearers were participants in the killing of the Lord Jesus. Fifty days ago they had cried out: "Away with this man!” (Luke 23:18) They had been in the crowd shouting their rejection. Now, though, some of them desired to be separated from the crowd. How? By being baptized. Through baptism they would come out of the world and sever their relationship with that brotherhood. As soon as I step into the water to be baptized, my sins are remitted, that is, I come out of the brotherhood to which I once belonged. This is why Peter on Pentecost tells them to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus that their sins may be remitted. This single act of baptism causes them to come out of the world.

Do you now see that you who originally were of the world and therefore were enemies of the Lord will be saved if you come out of it? You need to confess before God and man that you have come out and are today no longer associated with the world. This is the greatest teaching of Pentecost. Let our minds be molded by God’s record instead of by any system of Protestant theology.

3. WASH AWAY SINS.

Let us next consider the case of Paul. Ananias says to Paul, "Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on his name” (Acts 22:16).

Paul is universally accepted as the foremost teacher and prophet and apostle in Christianity. What if there were some flaw in his experience as well as in his teaching? He is told not to tarry but to arise and be baptized. Why? To wash away his sins. The Roman Catholic Church errs here in changing this verse into a personal experience before God. They fail to see that this Scripture deals with the question of the world. Consequently they baptize dying people in order to wash away their sins. They do not recognize that baptism is related to the world instead of to God. But Protestants equally err in attempting to hide the verse.

Being formerly a person of the world, Paul, now that he has both believed and seen the Lord Jesus, should arise and be baptized. Thus baptized, his sins are washed away, for he has severed his relationship with the world. If one becomes a Christian secretly without being baptized, the world will still consider him one of its own. The believer may say he is saved, but the world will not accept his statement. Not until he is baptized does he compel the world to see his salvation. Who would be so foolish as to go into the water unless there were a good reason for it? Yes, as soon as a Christian is baptized he is freed from the world. Hence this water is linked to the world.

The world will still reckon a person one of its own if he does not give an outward expression of his inward faith. For example, in Kuling, Foochow, there is an idol festival in the autumn. Every inhabitant is supposed to contribute to it. If one merely says he has believed in the Lord and cannot therefore participate, he will nonetheless not be excused. But let him be baptized, and he will immediately be known as having left the world. Consequently, baptism is the best way of separation. Through baptism the believer declares to the entire world that he has severed his relationship with it and has come out of it.

Since baptism is a public testimony, it should be openly conducted. Oftentimes unbelievers may come to a baptismal service. But some believers suggest that in order to avoid confusion there should not be too many spectators in a baptismal service. Well then, does this mean that John the Baptist has yet something to learn at their feet, for without doubt the scene at the Jordan River was quite disorganized! No, let the world witness what we are doing!

4. SAVED THROUGH WATER.

God’s words maintain a unity of thought. It is said in 1 Peter 3:20-21 ". . . in the days of Noah . . . wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.” This gives a slightly different angle to salvation. The Lord states that "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”; Peter declares on the Day of Pentecost, "Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit”; Paul is told to "arise and be baptized, and wash away (his) sins, calling on his (Christ’s) name”; but Peter here shows us how to be saved through ("dia” in the original) water.

Whatever cannot pass through water is not saved but is drowned. At the time of Noah all were baptized, but only eight souls came safely out of the water. Except for the eight, all were washed down and failed to come up. In other words, to them the water became the water of death. But to us, this water is the water of salvation. They were immersed by the water and sank to the bottom, but we emerged from it. Do you not notice that there is something positive in Peter’s word? It is quite true that when the flood came, all mankind was drowned. There were nevertheless eight persons in the ark who emerged from the water. The water could not retain them. These eight were saved while the remainder all perished. Today the whole world lies under the wrath of God. Yet if I am baptized, I have passed through God’s wrath and have come out from the condemned world. This is the meaning of baptism.

Baptism is immersion on the one side and emergence on the other side. It speaks of passing through the water and of coming out of it. Let us emphasize the side of emergence. All went into the water, but only eight persons came out. Today we too are saved by baptism. How is this? Because we have entered into the water and have then emerged from it. No person who has not yet believed in the Lord Jesus should be baptized, for he will not be able to emerge from the water. But we believers can testify to the world that we have found the way out.

HEREAFTER WE ARE OUT OF THE WORLD

From this first set of four Scripture passages, we now ought to be clear as to what baptism can do for us. As we are baptized, we are delivered from the world. The new believer should not let many years pass before he is liberated from the world. The first thing he should do is be baptized. He must understand what the state of the world is before God. What is it to be saved? It is to be dissociated from one’s former state. It is to have one’s relationship with the world cleanly dissolved. Henceforth the believer is on the other side of the world. The newly converted needs to be shown this way.

Soon after one has believed in the Lord, he should be shown that he is one who stands outside the world. His baptism is a definite expression of his being delivered from the world. Hereafter he abides in the ark and therefore has gone over to the other side. Many things he cannot do, not only for the sake of his having believed in the Lord Jesus but also because of his having been baptized. He has crossed over a bridge to the other side. This makes baptism most meaningful.

BAPTISM MEANS YOU ARE FINISHED

The error of Protestantism is in overlooking the significance of baptism when it seeks to perfect the doctrine of salvation. We must restore the place of baptism today. What is its meaning? It is a coming out of the world; it is the proper procedure for being delivered from the world. When one is baptized he declares to people that he has come out of the world. Miss M. E. Barber has put it in poetic form: "Then the grave, with dear ones weeping, knowing that all life has fled.” These dear ones know that you are finished, that you have come to the end of your road. Such baptism is most effective. Anything higher than this would be impractical. You must come out of the old realm. To have eternal life is the story of your spirit before God; but to be saved is your testimony to the world by declaring you no longer have any part in it.

Reply To This Post |
I am interested in what everyones thoughts about this is ? :

What the Early Christians Believed About Baptism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9RGxS4wkMI

This video is fascinating!