I would council Christians all over the land to look into the eyes of the protestors. One day we shall fall into their hands.A desensitized generation angry and amoral. The winds are being restrained and we should take advantage of that, but it is only for a time. One day the winds shall be released and the pent up hatred of the amoral, the elite, the media and the religious will be loosed.......bro Frank
Yes Brother, so true. My heart breaks for them because of the deception they have bought into. If only to share the love of Christ with them, the uncompromised gospel, in hopes many will repent and put their faith in Jesus. We must work while it's still day, the night quickly approaches.
The winds are being restrained and we should take advantage of that, but it is only for a time.
This might be very well our time of preparation dear brother and period of grace for the West.
Hi Frank
Amen to that not long before the whole world will see our savior in all his glory. When i walk around in the flesh i see hints of the world and whats to come which is easy to predict with out the holy spirit but when i walk in the spirit the warfare is sooo in tense. how subtly Satan has deceived the nations in thinking evil is Good and Good is evil. I think the most challenging part is the teachings in many new churches and the lack of insight into how to study the bible correctly like our fathers of the faith did.
The message that is now on my heart that i am spreading is know the Lord as intimately as you can because once you know the truth the counterfeit is easy to spot no matter how good the copy is. We no longer can be pew sitters with the pastors feeding us milk for the rest of our lives, we must learn to eat the meat of the word as we will enter a time were fellowship with others will be very difficult, we must keep our lamps full at all times and encourage one another to stand and then stand thereof.
Sorry went on a bit but its what came to mind reading your post.
Hi SI,
I didnt see this "restraining of the winds" predicted or prophesied anywhere on SI over the last few years all I heard was "Persecution Watch".Could it be that you were wrong?
Maybe God is more graceful than we think?How long will that grace period last?We didnt seem to need that grace period for prepartion over the last few years why do we need it now?
Yours Staff
Maybe God is more graceful than we think?How long will that grace period last?
Good questions brother. I do believe we should not be like Jonah spurning God's kindness to give the American Church another period of grace. But it is not clear if that will actually happen still.
I wrote this in 2012 and believe the Lord had me to share this with the saints then to have them prepare:
The Coming Great Persecution - Greg Gordon
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44957&forum=34
Hi Greg,
I will look at that link,I dont remember reading it.I agree its totally unclear whether we will have a period of grace still.I do think however that having a Christian VP and an anti abortion President can only be good.My only concern is that these protests could become the "fires" David Wilkerson talked about.Lets pray not ,
Yours Staff
Hi Greg,
Ive read that and understand it clearly and yet cant agree with it.
Their are good points to it dont get me wrong and good analogies.
The problem lies with fact that you link persecution to end times.If you wrote what you wrote and not link it to end times then I would say this guy is saying or prophesying that persecution is around the corner and we are not prepared.I can accept that no problem.I would then test it and see is it true like we should.I would then heed the warning or not.
Now to the problem I see with linking it to the end times.
Your assumption is based on a Post Tribulation Rapture and if you are wrong then your whole idea of what persecution looks like is also wrong.Your basing it also on the assumption that you can loose your salvation,if you are wrong then your preaching about persecution will condemn and take away from grace.You may be right and it is a post trib but you may be wrong then you've caused problems.
We have to always make a distinction whether we go through the tribulation or not between "persecution" and the exact period of time called "The Great Tribulation".Almost all posters on persecution never make this distinction and this is a clear and huge difficulty no matter what your end time view is.Here is the difficulty you have:it is that you then cannot accept "a period of grace where their is no persecution" because(if your following me) you believe we are in the end times .In your end time view their are no periods of grace and if periods of grace happen then you have to accept that we are not in the end times.I'l say it again to be clear if we get a period of grace then we are not in the end times yet according to your view.
Thats why I said has anyone on SI predicted or prophesied a period of grace which clearly no one has .
I am saying this from a point of view which accepts that their are times of persecution and martyrdom on the Earth and in our lives.Im saying this from a point of view which agrees that the majority of the "crazy stuff" comes from the pre tribulation believing side.
Its quite difficult to articulate what im saying but il put it another way if their is a period of grace we will see two things happening
1:Posters on SI will have to deny clear good things that are occuring like a Vice President thats Chrisitian or an anti abortion President,clear good things
2:They will have to say that this is not a period of grace but a deception clearly say good things are a deception
I'l leave you with this thought and Scripture below.Their will be times that I/you/us will be persecuted and maybe like Paul martyred but please cant I have my two years....
Paul Preaches at Rome
Paul stayed there two full years in his own rented house, welcoming all who came to visit him.Boldly and freely he proclaimed the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.…
Yours Staff
Hi Staff
With all due respect, your view is boxed in on every side by theology of men. Let me just throw out some possibilities that would undermine your assertions. Does not have to be post trib it could be mid trib it just cannot be pre-trib as scripture does in no way support pre-trib. It is a new teaching of men (1820s and on)
There is the beginning of sorrows, birth pangs that come prior to the seven years of the great tribulation. Outer bands of the storm if you like. In the parable of the foolish virgins that speaks of Christ coming back for His bride, then half of the virgins were not prepared and therefore failed in the day for lack of oil.
That's all I am prepared to say in pointing out the holes in your argument. I am not now going to enter into a theological discussion with you as we have, on this forum, done that countless times on this subject. Enough to say that there are glaring holes in what you put forward and at the very least should give you pause for thought. God bless you Staff, if you cannot accept that there can be periods of grace, moments of relative peace and silence in the midst of the three late stages of pregnancy ( latent, active and transition) then you must not have any children :)
Excuse my link to this article Greg, it may help Staff
https://acalltotheremnant.com/2011/07/27/birth-pangs-the-beginning-of-sorrows/
Hi Frank,
Given that you brought up the parable of the virgins, I'd like to hear your take on it.
1. What does the oil represent? How do we prepare?
2. Isn't it all about resting in the finished work of Jesus? So what is there left to strive for?
Staff I understand your explanation about the "persecution gospel" this very thing bothered me throughout many previous discussions. For me (I am holding a partial preterist ammillennial end times view) it is not evident from the scriptures that this generation (or the next) will be the last one before Christ comes back. They used to say (based on Matthew 24:34?) that the generation that has seen the establishment of Israel in 1948 will be the last generation before the second coming. That generation is practically passed, so now how do we know whether it is 10, 100, or 1000 generations before Jesus comes back. Those who speak about persecution always bring up verses about the great tribulation. Now the time of the great tribulation is understood differently according to each end time view. According to my view it took place under Nero, and since then Christ's return was and is always imminent.
To summarize:
1. I am not able to estimate even the approximate time of Christ's return from the Scriptures.
2. I am not convinced from the scriptures that there will be a persecution and a difficult time for the believers just before his return. It is not specified, he can come in good or bad times, any time.
I want to be like those wise virgins always ready for His coming, my readiness will not depend on current news events, presidents or predictions of persecutions. My readiness is not knowing these things but knowing Him.
Hi Yehuan,
1. I believe that the oil represents the Holy Spirit. If one is not Baptized in the Holy Spirit then one will not survive the great delusion and the persecution associated with the last days. ( I am not willing to debate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, for me it is a second unique experience for the most part. If there are those on the forum who disagree with that then God bless you we shall agree to disagree)
2. I rest upon the finished work of the Lord in my salvation and my sanctification. Yet I cooperate with God because I have free will and God forces me to do nothing. I believe a few things about salvation. I have the free will choice to accept or reject what God has offered at Calvary. In sanctification I can resist God in stubbornness and cause myself to delay the process of becoming more Christlike in my life by letting my flesh get in the way.
My flesh must bow to the Word and will of the Lord. It is not good enough to abide in the Word for instance, I must continually abide in the Word of God. It is not good enough for me to pray once, I must continually abide in prayer. I myself can share the good news but also without bewaring when I stand lest I fall can drift away and find myself reprobate. I do not believe in once saved always saved. I believe that I can walk away from the Lord. I believe that it is a relatively rare thing yet the Bible, in my view, plainly teaches that.
And so, in the latter days, many will fall away, many who were never saved in the first place will be revealed as impurities are revealed by fire. Trials and persecution is the fire that separates the wheat from the chaff, the slag from the gold. These and many more are my sincere convictions and I am not willing to debate them. If there are folks on the forum who feel differently then again, God bless them. All of these subjects have been debated at length here on the forum over the years.
Anyone who attempts to debate me on these issues will be disappointed. It has taken me many years to come to a place where I no longer feel the need to defend or defeat another on matters of theology. Let there be peace in all things among the saints and if one is fully persauded of positions contrary to which I have just written then of course that is between you and the Lord.I will always give an answer for the hope that lies within me and I just did :) God bless all the saints on the forum...........bro Frank
Hi Frank,
My view is not boxed at all,in fact I am pointing out that Gregs view is clearly boxed in by his post trib view(im not saying his view is wrong) but I am saying that it has consequences.
I only bring up The Tribulation because thats what Greg discussed in the link he attached.I do not want to debate that at all.
The problem is plainly this.
FOR Years SI members have said persecution,persecution ,persecution and have not in any way said their would be a period of Grace(if that what this turns out to be)
Now that we may have a period of grace they dont know what to do with it.
They Now have a simple problem:
They cant say that its a good thing that we have a Vice President thats full on Christian or that its good to have a President that is against abortion and if they do you'l will find a big negative BUT.......coming along straight behind.
I can accept periods of grace but when I hear SI members prophesy and say persecution,persecution I didnt hear them say anything about a periods of grace.How can I take them seriously when they are clearly inaccurate in their predictions,
Yours Staff
Hi Staff,
Now dont take this too much to heart but I think your statement is quite silly. Just because there is, hypothetically, a period of grace, then those who speak of coming persecution are wrong? Yikes, what kind of logic is that? No one knows the ins and outs of the future. W know that in the end days, just like in the days of Noah, they will be buying and selling and going about their business. Even in the vast horror of Nazi Germany, folks got up every day and went to work why the devilish forces went about their business. Even at the beginning of WWII in Britain it was called the phoney war.
I for one rejoice in any period of grace including this one and in fact leading up to this election I prayed against the forces of evil, against Hillary and Clinton and rejoice that crooked woman, that unabashed supporter of abortion was defeated. It in no way changes the fact that persecution is just around the corner and to think it does change anything is perhaps to be one who falls in the day of deception and cries out " peace, peace," when there is no peace.................bro Frank
Hi Appolus,
I didnt hear one person who promoted persecution Christianity prophesy a period of grace,not one.All we got was the persecution.
We have to understand that our endtimes views whatever they are have a direct on their Church Views.
Ok its is clear that at least part of the Tribulation will be way way way more difficult than World War 11 at its worst.
The phoney war was a short period of time where both sides geared up for war,in the Trib their will be no such period.Also the tribulation is not a war.
Its not just that people will be buying selling etc its the picture Jesus was painting is normal things are going on the world is all well with itself.No intellectually honest view could say the period Jesus talks about is also the worst worst worst time in history,it not just wars its God taking vengenance.Its God that causing all the difficulties not mere man,
Yours Staff
Well Staff, lets agree to disagree...............bro Frank
I was going to post a link to a documentary, but I decided I'd just start another thread with it.
See you on the thread!
Savannah - I think i can understand why you recommended the documentary.
It is dangerous and unhealthy if we focus too much on current events etc rather then on salvation and sanctification.
Paul Washer has a good sermon here on SI "The Power of The Gospel"
The whole sermon is important, but I just quickly want to point out one thing. After about 36min he talks about
"theological battles " that are sometimes going on and he was asked what he thinks about this or that theology and he
answered: "well I really don't think about that, I just want to love my wife "
This discussion is locked.
