What happened to the prophetic gifts

Talking about John Wimber, it seems to me that we got silent about the prophetic gifts since the turn of the century. I have hardly seen them in operation in recent years - not the excesses, but real utterance in tongues, interpretation and prophecy.

Paul stated
1. Cor 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

I am afraid that we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and dare not to make room for these gifts in fear to end up in deception. There is a right application for these, and they have a place in the church. These signs follow the believers and I am afraid we are missing out on something vital God has given to the church. Satan has a two-fold purpose: He furthers the excesses and silences the real utterances.

Operation of the gifts needs responsible and discerning leadership. The use of the gifts has to be taught. There will be errors in the process but they can be corrected.

I see very little emphasis nowadays in teaching on this subject. I afraid if we do not revive these gifts, following generations will have go through the same learning process and have to repeat mistakes of past generations.

The gifts are given for the body of Christ who is the head.
Church programs and pastors who assume the sole authority hinder their operation. Believers who are not filled with the spirit will not be able to exercise nor discern them. Believers who allow sin in their live can be usurped by Satan to produce the counterfeit. Lukewarm Christian will not desire the gifts. Many streams in evangelical Christianity condemn them outright and attribute their operation to demonic forces.

Why is there such a vehement opposition against them? Why is the devil so keen to distort or suppress them? I think it is because they are vital to the body of Christ. I acknowledge the are not as vital as the cross or holiness or faith, but we cannot bury them without suffering loss.

"I am afraid that we have thrown the baby out with the bathwater and dare not to make room for these gifts in fear to end up in deception. There is a right application for these, and they have a place in the church. These signs follow the believers and I am afraid we are missing out on something vital God has given to the church. Satan has a two-fold purpose: He furthers the excesses and silences the real utterances."

Brother,

I agree with you that the gifts of the Spirit are not being manifested as much as they once were in churches that believe in the gifts such as AOG churches. As you have said, the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater. Any pastor that teaches on the gifts of the Spirit and allows them to operate in his church knows that it is not going to be smooth sailing. There will be mistakes made, but no one should be hit over the head with a bible for stepping out in faith. The pastor should gently instruct and correct those that have missed it in this area.

When you read Paul’s epistle to the Corinthians, you see the Apostle commended the Church at Corinth for not coming behind in any gift. Then in Chapter 12 Paul lists the gifts of the Spirit, the purpose for them, and how they are to be exercised. The Corinthians had a problem especially in the area of tongues, and the Apostle set things in order. He never discouraged the use of tongues in the Church, but he taught that if someone is moving in this gift, he should also have the gift of interpretation or at least someone in the church should interpret.

In 1 Corinthians 13, Paul exhorts the Church on the love of God. All of the gifts should be operated with a desire to glorify Jesus, build up the Church, and should be done in the love of God. The gifts are given to each member as God chooses to build up and edify the Body of Christ.

Any pastor or leader that teaches on the gifts should also make sure that the people have a thorough knowledge of the fruit of the Spirit. The misuse of the gifts is a result of there being no corresponding fruit. If I am walking in the love of God toward the Body of Christ, I will not use the gifts in a selfish manner, but my desire will be to see the Church grow and mature into the full knowledge of Christ.

Prophesy is a precious gift and it is not for a select few, but anyone that has been baptized in the Holy Spirit can be used by God to give a prophetic utterance. The gift of prophesy was never meant to replace the indwelling Holy Spirit, who has been given to us to lead us and guide us into all truth.

All three posts excellent!

May all who read ask the Lord to use them in edifying the body of Christ and stir up the gift that is in them....or ask the Holy Spirit to begin to manifest His gifts in and through them.

Blessings,

I believe God has blessed me with the Gift of Prophesy. I exercise this gift whenever I get a chance in my church. But we have to understand the difference between Old Covenant and New Covenant Prophesy. Old Covenant Prophesy is to predict the attack of enemy on Israel and to warn the nation of Israel from the enemies. Like how Jeremeiah warned them about the attack of Babylonians.

Now New Covenant prophesy is for the Church, to warn the church on the spiritual attack of Satan. It is not same as predicting the future like how the OT prophets did.

1 Cor 14:31-For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged.

Here it is clear that Prophesy is to encourage and instruct the Church.

Verse 24:- But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all, 25as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!”

So Prophesy should expose the hidden sins in the listener. He will fall down and confess that 'God is really in their midst'.

The problem is many who say the prophesy today in Church and in TV, they do OT prophesy. Predicting who will get Job, who will get blessing etc will not cause one to be convicted of sin, will it? All these are lies done in the name of Prophesy.

That is why it is very important for each one of us to be part of a Local body of believers. Only in Local Body we can hear a prophetic word that is apt to the spiritual situation of ours. Listening messages in SI etc, cannot replace that.

So before we question, why we do not have prophetic gifts today, let us question whether we are part of a local body that is meeting based on Biblical ground. If that is not there then where will prophesy come from? It is like someone living in Elisha's time outside Israel but asking where are all the prophets? One has to come to be part of God's people to hear a prophet.

My opinion thus far according to my research of Church History as well as my understanding of Scripture : Is that as soon as we depart from the Biblical account. Men started ruling over other men, hierarchical system replaced the Biblical paradigm of the Body.
Instead of leadership that directed each Body part to His Head and discovering each individuals role as a vital functioning Body part.
Men with Great Orator skills rose up and begain imposing there own convictions onto other men:

What should have been non issues such as how one should ware facial hair etc. begain being imposed on peoples conscience making it very difficult for them to hear and discern what was from the Lord and what had been imposed on them from other mens conscience.

What I believe as being a misunderstanding of the first part of 1 Cor 11 prevented men from understanding what was happening to them.
They read that portion being taught that the headship order was to be symbolized and demonstrated by outward apparel and hair length.
And (My opinion is)they never trusted the Lord in the reading of that portion for themselves and never relized that it is speaking directly against bringing ones conscience under hierarchical rule.

And never coming to the understanding that the allegorical portion is not encouraging ceremonial adherence.
but simply pointing out that Gods Sovereign design of the Headship order can be seen even in nature. hence : (Doth not even nature itself teach you)
For a man to allow other men to dictate his conscience is as unnatural and feminist as a man with long hair.

And so I believe our full capabilities and purpose in the Body is
being suppressed by an unbiblical structural paradigm.

add : and lack of faith
edit : clarity

add : (My opinion is) change "influence" to "dictate"

Sree made a very valid point. You need a functioning body of believers that are under the headship of Christ and exercise the government offices: Elders and deacons - mark the plural -and not one top man and his staff a level below. Exercise of gift needs to be encouraged and corrected at times.

Often it was deep compassion and dire need that facilitated the operation of the gifts. If there are no doctors to go to you and someone is going to die you may be tempted to abandon your cessationist theology.
Stephen's gift of miracles was released while working as a deacon among desperate widows that expected their daily provisions.

When Jesus and the apostles evangelized, the gifts accompanied their message. John Wimber brought this truth back to the mainstream evangelical churches but we quickly dismissed it because of the excesses. What a sad story.

The gifts were always there and I believed they never really ceased throughout church history.

Often it was deep compassion and dire need that facilitated the operation of the gifts. If there are no doctors to go to you and someone is going to die you may be tempted to abandon your cessationist theology.
Stephen's gift of miracles was released while working as a deacon among desperate widows that expected their daily provisions.

Very true.

When Jesus and the apostles evangelized, the gifts accompanied their message.

Even these days I hear reports of miracles done in remote villages in India where people go to spread the gospel. These uneducated people who are deeply rooted in Hindu faith cannot come out unless a sign is performed in their midst. Any number of intellectual reasoning will not work there.

Act 11:28
And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Act 21:10
And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
Act 21:11
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

What happened to the prophetic gifts?

Nothing, brother. They are alive and well in fellowships where the Spirit of God is allowed free reign.

Oh, the gifts are alive and well.

Dohzman, I am sure someone will point out these 2 instances in new covenant to explain that predicting the future is still part of New Covenant. Agabus was called Prophet, but we do not know if he was NC or OC prophet. Acts of the Apostle is like History book that lists everyone both of NT and OT. But in Epistles is there any mention of any prophesy that predicts the future? Not even one as far as I know. But the Epistles list prophesy for encouraging and edifying the Church.

The epistles list very few examples, if any of healing, prophesy, miracles etc. because their aim is to establish doctrine and not witness the supernatural.

You cannot therefore conclude that NT prophesy no longer includes predicting the future.

1 Cor 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

The prophetic gifts include words of knowledge that reveal hidden things, revelation that is more of a kind of bringing out mysteries from scripture, as well as forthtelling future things.

Jesus said:
John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

There are many places in Acts where future things are being forthtold. These are new testament prophets ministering to the body of Christ. The book of Acts would not been possible without NT prophecy including predicting the future.

Paul forthtold the decline of morals in the epistles

2 Timothy 3:1
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

Jude said the same in Verse 18

Paul forthtold the decline of morals in the epistles

I am totally fine with predicting the spiritual attacks on the Church. That is what I believe is New Covenant prophesy. Which is similar to the physical attack on Israel that Elisha predicted, the NC prophets will have a prophetic word in Church that will warn them about the spiritual attacks of Satan. Everything that is physical like blessings in the OC is now spiritual in NC. So physical prophesy is also replaced by spiritual prophesy.

What I do not believe is Physical prediction like someone will get a job etc that the TV preachers do today. For example I once saw a TV preacher prophesy that someone who is watching his show and praying for a job is going to get a job and her name is going to start with xxx etc. This to me is not at all prophesy. There is no edification of Church through such prophesy.

by Sree
What I do not believe is Physical prediction like someone will get a job etc that the TV preachers do today. For example I once saw a TV preacher prophesy that someone who is watching his show and praying for a job is going to get a job and her name is going to start with xxx etc. This to me is not at all prophesy. There is no edification of Church through such prophesy.

We, as followers of Christ, must trust God that He knows what He is doing with His gifts. God can and has given prophesy that is encouraging someone about their future. If that person is a part of the Church, then the Church has been edified.

God bless,
Lisa

The Wisdom of the Holy Spirit

How wise the Holy Spirit is! He takes the soul, lays it on the
table, and dissects it in a moment; He finds out the root of the matter, He sees where the evil is, and then He applies the knife where something is required to be taken away; or puts
dressing and ointment where the sore is. He never makes a
mistake. O, how wise is the blessed Holy Spirit; from every
other comforter I turn and leave them all, for You are He who
alone gives the wisest consolation.
-Spurgeon

Revelations and vain imaginings? Charles Spurgeon,

Take care never to impute the vain imaginings of your fancy to the Holy Spirit. I have seen the Spirit of God shamefully dishonored by people --I hope they were insane -- who have said that they have had this and that revealed to them.

There has not for some years passed over my head a single week in which I have not been pestered with the 'revelations' of hypocrites or maniacs. Semi-lunatics are very fond of coming
with messages from the Lord to me, and it may save them some trouble if I tell them once for all that I will have none of their stupid messages. When my Lord and Master has any message to me he knows where I am, and he will send it to me direct, and not by madmen.

Never dream that events are revealed to you by heaven, or you may come to be like those idiots who dare impute their blatant follies to the Holy Spirit.

If you feel your tongue itch to talk nonsense, trace it to the devil, not to the Spirit of God.

Whatever is to be revealed by the Spirit to any of us is in the word of God already -- he adds nothing to the Bible, and never will. Let persons who have revelations of this, that, and the other,go to bed and wakeup in their senses. I only wish they would follow the advice, and no longer insult the Holy Spirit by laying their nonsense at his door.

Hi Savannah,

though I otherwise have great regard for Spurgeon, his wholesale rejection does not hold the to test of scripture.

For sure there are many lunatics but there is the genuine, too.

If I have the choice between the best preacher and the bible, I still go for the later.

A personal testimony...

I have had many experiences of Spirit inspired gifts, especially in my younger years, and usually, if not always, in the context of body life and ministry.

I have prayed for some in the Name of Jesus and have seen them recover. Nothing major, as in raising the dead or the healing of cancer etc, but who knows what the future holds:)

I have found that the gift of prophecy manifests powerfully through me to edify the body and usually to exalt and glorify Jesus Christ, His Name and authority and resurrection and glorification and coming again.

I will certainly not label myself a prophet however there was one specific word I remember that had a foretelling character about it. This was in a small church where the pastor and I and some brethren were praying together when the Spirit of God inspired me to pray a word over the pastor that spoke to him being like a giant tree under which others would come and sit in the shade and be restored and taught etc.(Word of knowledge and wisdom?)
Little did I know that he had already had an invitation and was planning to head up a Bible College in another city. Co-incidence? I don't think so...

I believe the Holy Spirit would pour out His gifts through us in greater measure if we made ourselves available in body ministry, lived diligently in His Word, prayed in the Spirit often and without ceasing and stepped out in faith and obedience when prompted by the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,