yuehan
Feb 10, 2017
Hi moderators,
I noted that Tuc has been removed from the forum.
Did he request for his account to be removed from the website?
Otherwise, why has he been banned?
Hi moderators,
I noted that Tuc has been removed from the forum.
Did he request for his account to be removed from the website?
Otherwise, why has he been banned?
I also noticed that Tuc's recent thread, "I was wrong - I repent!", has been removed. It was originally located at: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=58852&forum=34
While I had yet to read the removed thread in detail, what were the concerns that you had about Tuc's post? Scripture references would be appreciated.
Saints,
We have to make decision from time to time that we do not wish to make. And in many cases there are reasons for removing a member that are private and through other issues that are not public. So we cannot discuss and share all reasons.
We do ask for believers to review the community rules: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13
And to remember that we are just guests here and this is not a place to try and convince believers here for one specific truth or idea. We all must be teachable and open to the Holy Spirit to share with us where we ourselves are wrong. Also in our attitudes the Lord desires to work the character of Christ.
There are many forums that are free for discussing and almost doing anything. We desire the forums here to be a place where godliness is promoted and brothers and sisters in the Lord grow in God through the discussions. We also want the discussions to be of quality because they are beside some of the godly sermons preached in the last century.
We will continue to pray and seek the Lord as moderators to see this site become a place of godly growth for believers. Most people who in the end sometimes are asked to move on from discussion forum participation are those who do not listen to the audio / video sermons, are not willing to be teachable and have their own exacting ideas they want to promote.
I personally have learnt and continue to learn from many sermon messages and sharing of saints on the forums from brothers to sisters in the Lord.
Tuc has been a longstanding member of this forum for more than seven years. While I did not always agree with his views, he was a valued contributor to the forum. I have also enjoyed some personal correspondence with him in the past.
His removal is of great concern to me, and I trust there are other forum members who share the same concerns.
Can you elaborate specifically the concerns that you had about Tuc, and the rationale for his removal?
John,
You have taken offence at removal of other members in the past that happened. SermonIndex is a website where people are guests and are allowed to post on a site that has alot of viewers that come from all over the world. So in the end is a privilege to allow such posting. We deny many pastors to add their materials to the website because of our hand-selecting of all sermons.
But forum members can post messages at times and share their ideas and thoughts. This is a great freedom that members need to realize they are being allowed to do.
I outlined the reason why in the past post and gave the community rules, we do not feel the need to highlight exact reasons and evidence, etc.
Hi Greg,
It is wrong of you to accuse me of having taken offense at your past decisions to remove forum members. I have always been civil and polite in asking for your perspective, and wanted to understand the specific reasons behind their removal.
Never have I publicly challenged the decision of the moderators in such instances. Even when I had reservations about the moderators' decisions, I have not once openly stated them on these forums.
In asking for the reasons behind Tuc's removal, my desire was for accountability, not to undermine the authority of the moderators. If Tuc had erred, it would benefit the community to know why and how he has erred.
The refusal to provide reasons for Tuc's removal feels like a silent execution. It feels cultish, and is not befitting of a Christian community.
I am disappointed by your responses.
Tuc had some original thought out ideas in his posts. Something that is a rarity in the nature of cutting and pasting articles from others.
Tuc's post were a bit lengthy to read. But I saw no heresy or error in them. His heart was always on one's identity in Jesus.
I will miss him on the forum.
Simply my thoughts.
For as long as I can remember I have sensed something "off" in Tuc's posts that is difficult to explain exactly. I have asked him to clarify many times but the queasy feeling has never left me.
It is entirely possible that I am simply too dense to understand exactly what he was saying.
That being said, I am not glad to see he is gone, but I do trust Greg's judgment. He is not required to go into great detail for the reasons he stated.
RE : /// Tuc's post were a bit lengthy to read. But I saw no heresy or error in them. His heart was always on one's identity in Jesus.///
I agree,
I observed him for years as I have all of the forum members. I am always searching for those whom are more sincere and more real than myself to learn from and grow from.
There was another member in the past that was attacked by the same crowd and that was jimp , and just the same his conduct was always far superior to his attackers.
Tuc's conduct was Superior to that of every member that ever attacked him, he did not attack back and seldom defended himself.
His main subject was as Bro Bear pointed out : "one's identity in Jesus."
He posted many articles from David Wilkerson, Charles Spurgeon, Watchman Nee, and Norman Grubb concerning that issue.
He also held to some views of Norman Grubb that are questionable.
But Norman Grubb is featured on SI.
PP-
How do you define "attacked?"
I ask because I don't recall anyone attacking Tuc, at least recently. There have been requests for clarification and some concern he was espousing hyper grace but I would not call that attacking.
In the great majority of cases I believe the dialogue had been respectful. I agree Tuc was never nasty.
"...We see the moderators take serious action against people who come with some dangerous ideology and keep posting in SI. Why is the same step not taken here?.."
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"..... Show me how your life is. If Tuc can post so much why not post his personal testimony? How about inviting others to come and see his family life, personal purity etc. If a life of Come and see is not there, then all the theology is total rubbish."
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"Tuc is dancing with Joseph Prince down a primrose path of deceit.
I wish someone would take each of Prince's books and write a page by page refutation. The man is evil. Tuc is a victim and many others are."
Tucs response :
"I do NOT listen to Joseph Prince nor do I read his books.
I really do not know that much about him and I have never recommended him to anyone.
Not sure why you said that."
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From all my readings and study of contemporary christianity, it seems you are either quoting or re-packaging Joseph Prince and others like him who are preaching what some are terming: Hyper Grace.
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It was not Joseph Prince it was Norman Grubb !
Ok PP I see what you mean.
But I still maintain there was subtle error in Tuc's posts.
Subtle is the key and perhaps most significant word to describe it. Don't ask me to explain it.
RE: /// But I still maintain there was subtle error in Tuc's posts.///
Bro Todd,
You of all people know what it is to be misconstrued and branded a heretic.
add : You have proposed some very questionable doctrines in the past yourself
edit clarity
I don't think tuc is a heretic- not by any means. I have never said any such thing.
I think Calvinism is major, not subtle, error and I don't think a Calvinist is a heretic.
Just because I disagree with someone does not mean I think they are a heretic.
The crazy thing is that I am not even sure I disagree with Tuc. I just never understood what he was saying, and I am a reasonably intelligent person.
I can't remember that I had a problem with tuc's posts.
Greg has a very difficult task. Recently he had to go to Hospital and he had to deal with what happened with youtube etc.
May be let's all slow down a bit and post more encouraging and uplifting items.
On a more personal note, I'm having my own concerns about the forum, but haven't quite decided what to do except that I kept out of most of the recent discussions. Might share a bit more in depth when I find a quiet moment.
But please let's uplift Greg in our prayers and let's not make his life more difficult.
I stopped reading tuc's posts a long time ago.
In my view, he was a hyper-grace promoter.
I never read anything worthy of the time it took, and if he did happen onto untainted truth from time to time I don't know it would have been recognizable.
He didn't bother me because I ignored him. Good habit. I am sure lots of folks develop it on my posts and probably should.
I personally welcome this move. I am sure there was a solid reason. I have always found some deception hidden in his post, something that normal eyes do not see. His posts always were on one topic and one agenda, which suggests that he comes to the forum with an agenda to spread some kind of teaching rather than to discuss and encourage others. The teachable spirit is something that most people in this forum lack.
The posts that were copied here as accusing Tuc were taken from my posts. I am totally fine with what I have posted. I do not believe the teachings that he promotes makes one holly. I am 100% sure the people who promote them are themselves living in open sin but hide everything with some imaginary doctrine.
Sree - Reading Tuc posts through the years you could see that he had been hurt by a particular doctrine.
His posting on here was an expression of what was going on in his life; the confusion and burden that a false doctrine brings; while seeking the truth on the matter that God does sanctify you wholly and also keeps you blameless.
We should all pray for Tuc that during this current sifting his faith doesn't fail.
Sree - Reading Tuc posts through the years you could see that he had been hurt by a particular doctrine.His posting on here was an expression of what was going on in his life; the confusion and burden that a false doctrine brings; while seeking the truth on the matter that God does sanctify you wholly and also keeps you blameless.
We should all pray for Tuc that during this current sifting his faith doesn't fail.
I felt that Tuc understood that sanctification is not by trying harder, but that our sanctification is a gift from God. Our part was to reach out and grab this gift of sanctification by faith.
I believe that this was drawn from his own experiences, and he was trying to find the language to describe it. Many of his posts were drafts-in-progress, drawn from various sources - as Tuc tried to iron out the creases in his theological understanding, and put to words his own experiences.
As has been briefly alluded to by Proudpapa, Tuc enjoyed the writings of: A.B. Simpson, Andrew Murray, Hudson Taylor, Watchman Nee, David Wilkerson, Dan Stone, and many more.
I wasn't always in perfect agreement with his posts. But if you believe - as I do - that the gospel is about justification by faith, as well as sanctification by faith, then Tuc's enthusiasm was for the gospel (perhaps sometimes expressed in imperfect words, or with imperfect understanding).
I will miss Tuc.
One of Tuc's favorite sermons was :
Beware Of Dogs by David Wilkerson
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3569&commentView=itemComments
I would highly recommend it to everyone.
With the exception of some exclusive views of Norman Grubb that Tuc held, the above sermon by David Wilkerson represents what Tuc was trying to convey.
The exact same sermon, can also be found on SI under the title : "The Key to understanding righteosness."
add : Tuc also posted a thread with the transcript of the above sermon : https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=55997&forum=34
This discussion is locked.