Western perspective on Home Fellowship

I am part of a local Church in USA, Dallas TX. We do not have any ordained pastors. We believe in submitting to authorities in Church but not to a one man based on pastoral degrees. So the elders who are appointed in the Church by God, we expect everyone to submit to them. The elders are also people among the Church. The pattern is very similar to how Paul appointed Elders in the church. The reason I talk about elders and authorities is, many home fellowship do not believe in submission to authorities, but we are different. I am sure many believers here would have experienced some kind of local home fellowship or Church like ours.

The question I have is, what is your opinion on such a Church. Though many may appreciate such local body of believers, personally one may not favor being part of them. I find here in USA most american believers are inclined more towards traditional institutional church rather than a home fellowship. Why do you personally not prefer or if you know people who do not prefer then why do you think they will not prefer such fellowship?

I will also put my opinion for choosing a home fellowship over an institutional Church. First I do not believe institutional church of any kind is God's representation of body of believers. Second it does not meet my need for fellowship with saints. When a person walks with God, he will also have a genuine desire to fellowship with other saints. There are other minor reasons like Institutional Churches mostly are not faithful in money matters like passing offering bucket which to me is unbiblical and shows their love for money. Lack of solid teaching of repentance and against sin because they do not want to offend their people and there by risk the reduction in numbers.

Please give me your answers, I am just trying to understand different perspectives here. I am especially interested in answers that conflicts with my opinion, not to argue but to understand.

Bumping up this thread. I want to know some perspective here.

Sree:

Back in the summer of 1997 I was called out of the institutional church by a direct command from the Lord to "come out". Without many of the details a number of us began a small home fellowship and we were provided a teacher.

This man began to teach us on what a New Testament church was and the pattern for such a church.

He did a very in depth teaching entitled, The Plurality of Elders in a local autonomous body of believers. I have only run across a very few who have had the same vision for a New Testament body of believers.

I stayed in this church until 2004 at which time I was led back to a small charismatic denominational church which was still very different than most denominational churches. The Lord used this time to bring my mother out of the Catholic church and used that time to save her.

As I have mentioned before I am now in a small Indian Church in Michigan. This body of believers does somewhat follow the home fellowship I was part of and there are a number of elders who all take part in teaching and leadership.

It's not your typical one man show so to speak. I can say I do value the smaller settings and the freedom for full body ministry as the Holy Spirit would lead and the members yield to that leading.

In the home fellowship it was very harmonious and it is a pattern I prefer. I do have that now in the small fellowship I am in. I do not ever see myself going back to the old pattern I left many years ago.

I believe the home fellowship is the churches future, a place of safety in the wilderness where the Lord will feed and protect His people. The larger institutional churches will be leading the way in persecuting true believers putting them to death while thinking they are doing Gods will.

As God is going to continue to call His sheep out of the much larger churches He will be leading them to smaller safer places like Home Fellowships.

Thank you David. That really helps.
If there are other saints, who either prefer or do not prefer home fellowships, please share your views. I am more interested to understand why someone will not prefer. It is just personal opinion, there is nothing right or wrong here.

Hi Sree,

Have you read Principles For The Gathering Of Believers? It is available to read here on SermonIndex.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=907

It is a wonderfully informative book that sort of reads as an anthology of the Scriptural principles for believers' orderly fellowship.

The "institutional" church is more of a modern invention -- although it goes back hundreds of years and borrows particular elements and certain forms and traditions from the old Roman Catholic institution.

I have visited house churches, old "traditional" churches, less formal churches and "non-institutional" churches. I've visited with churches that owned and operated large buildings and campuses as well as those that met in restaurants, empty buildings, outdoor patios and even churches that met together in a cave or beneath a tree.

In response to your questions ("What is your opinion on such a Church? Why do you personally not prefer or if you know people who do not prefer then why do you think they will not prefer such fellowship?), I think that the answer would vary from person to person.

I agree with much of what you've said. However, I think that the negatives that can be found in the "institutional" churches can be just as readily found in some house churches or less formal fellowships.

The problem with ANY churches -- institutional or not -- isn't with God but with the people.

I remember reading a book on the Azusa Street revival. Even in the midst of that movement, there were agitators who crept in and even tried to wrestle spiritual or authoritative control. Even the "United Pentecostal" movement -- with its belief that the doctrine of the Trinity is heresy -- started as a divergent and fractious offshoot from the Azusa Street Revival.

In fact, David Wilkerson has a message entitled "A Christless Pentecost" that mentions the dangers of fellowships and movements that lose sight of Christ even in the midst of congregations that sing praises to the Lord.

"A Christless Pentecost" - Part 1:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=332&commentView=itemComments

"A Christless Pentecost" - Part 2:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=333&commentView=itemComments

I think that the difficulty that many people have with submission isn't because they don't recognize the supremacy and authority of Christ but because of the understanding of the fallacy of men. This works both ways -- in that some might have trouble submitting to individuals who they might not view as "above reproach" and others might have trouble with the lack of leadership (via elders and deacons) when they know that the congregation needs it.

Personally, I don't find it difficult to "fit in" simply because I don't feel that I "fit in" anywhere in this present world. This world is not our home. Any attempt to build a church would be no more successful than the builders of Babel. After all, it is Christ who builds the church. We're just pilgrims, strangers and, yes, ambassadors progressing on a pilgrimage through this world.

I know that we probably shouldn't favor particular church meetings over another because everyday should be equal before God -- when we can shut ourselves in with Him (locking the world outside of the mind) and enjoy an open heaven of communication with our Lord. However, I must say that I enjoy fellowship outdoors.

I was saved while standing outside in a field by myself beneath the stars at a youth camp. After I met the Lord, I used to walk to school and sit down in a lonely field and pray. Yet, some of the most meaningful church fellowship that I was ever a part of was among Tarahumara believers in the Sierra Madre Occidental in remote mountains of Chihuahua, Mexico.

In one village, we met together for fellowship beneath a tree (with no chairs or traditional church formalities). In another village, we met in a cave on the side of a mountain. It was wonderful being around believers who had no televisions, radios or movies. Most in the tribes could not read or write anyway. There was no pretense about what a church meeting should look like -- except what was found in the Bible as read and/or translated by the pastors.

It seems that everyone knows and quotes the verse about not forsaking the "fellowship together" (Hebrews 10:25). However, they forget the part about "encouraging one another." Consider the entire passage:

19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, 25 not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near.

Hebrews 10:19-25 (NASB)

I find that this verse -- instructing us "how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds" and the use of such fellowship for "encouraging one another" to be something that is forgotten in many fellowships.

For illnesses and folks being away we have not met as an entire group for 3 weeks. This Saturday night we plan to meet. I miss our little group on those infrequent missed meetings. I doubt that many fellowships outside of homes have the intimacy of fellowship that is a luxury we enjoy. I will miss it when we move.

Great input on this topic. I also appreciate others feelings, and experience with small fellowships. Chris shared some interesting points and I too have had the opportunity to meet in numerous settings of worship in both larger and smaller groups.I agree there is nothing like having a meeting/service outdoors like the old time tent meetings or open air meetings. I have been to a number of tent meetings for smaller fellowships on the edge or middle of a corn field. Reminds me of Franks vision of the wheat gently swaying in the breeze (Heavenly if you can truly see it)

Like Tim said there is a true intimacy with smaller groups. In my experience some of the most Holy Spirit led meetings were in this type of setting and a real opportunity to yield to His leading and an unmistakable spirit of love toward one another.

I think many times of our relationships through cyber space here on SI when the spirit of unity is quite present at times and when we are bearing witness with one another. And yet as we all know things are not so "unified".

Can you imagine however if we were all to meet in person how the spirit of unity and the love of the Holy Spirit would overshadow us and our love for one another in spite of our differences?

I am not talking about salvation issue differences either. For me I know I am passionate about many things, we all are if truth may be told. Yet I am fully aware that it will not be until we see Him face to face that we will be fully like Him and know all things.

Like David says, If there be any wicked way in me I trust the Lord to show me that I may turn from it and renounce it. I also want to be careful in not casting a stumbling block before any one, saint or sinner. Winning an argument just isn't important to me, it gives place to strife, division, and every evil work.

I will close with this Sree since you are asking about thoughts and experiences. (Got LOTS of them by the way)

Some of the most freeing, broken, contrite, repentant and forgiving moments I have ever experienced with myself and others is and has been in small groups/fellowships. The cleansing, healing, and times of deliverance compare to no other when there are only a few. Amazing spirit of worship as the Holy Spirit would minister through song, exhortation, and the gifts.

I was at a funeral for a five month old still born little girl recently. We had a small grave side service for the child. No structure, just a small grieving group of believers and how the Holy Spirit spoke through word, prayer, and song like a tapestry or hand sown quilt.

We then retreated to one of the elders homes for a small time of praise, reflection, exhortation and a word from the Lord. When it was all done we began small conversations with one another but I could not help but notice something that just melted my heart.

All the women gathered around the grieving mother sitting next to her on the couch and on the floor at her feet loving and caressing her. I could not take my eyes off the scene until they were well overcome in tears and then the Holy Spirit showed me the true meaning of COMFORT. It was then that this was more than a word, but the true definition.

The other amazing thing I have experienced at this service and in many small group meetings are the CHILDREN and how they are encouraged and feel comfortable to minister as well. I have heard not a few children speak as the Holy Spirit directed them, and you knew it was out of the mouth of babes, that the Lord was speaking.

And how about this, TIME! I have been in meetings where HOURS would pass and I had lost all track of time. You all know what I am talking about.

For those of us who have come out of the dead denominational system know what the difference between 45 minutes there as opposed to 2, 3, 4 or 5 hours in a spirit filled setting.

It's supernatural and the true definition of what it means to be regenerated.

Blessings my Serta awaits me. Thats my mattress btw.

Greg, Can I ask if you would agree that the scriptures are the only real reference we should take for how the Lord set up and wanted His church to function?

I ask this because you seem to have come to a place of putting a lot of emphasis on church tradition and early church fathers, rather than just scripture. Surely if even quite early church traditions contradict the scriptures we should be careful not to follow their ways.

I don't see Paul or Peter in anyway supporting hieratical leadership, but servant, plural leadership.

I found the following website helpful, I hope you and some others do as well;

http://ntrf.org/index.php/new-testament-church-practice/

RE : /// I ask this because you seem to have come to a place of putting a lot of emphasis on church tradition and early church fathers, rather than just scripture. Surely if even quite early church traditions contradict the scriptures we should be careful not to follow their ways.///

I agree. The Scripture never tells us to read it through the lens of tradition, It acctually instructs just the opposite.

Reading the Scripture through the lens of tradition makes the Word of God of none effect.

Now we might read the Scriptures and see that church tradition is in agreement with our findings on certain points but we should never try to determine what truth is by simply searching what church tradition taught.

Another point : is that I have found basicly no continuity on almost any topic throughout recorded church history.

case in point :

Research Baptism and it's relation to Salvation compare what Ante-Nicene taught with that of what the reformers taught to that of what the Anabaptist taught to that of what George Fox and the Quakers taught to that of what the revivalist taught ?

clarity

Imagine, if you will, a rod and reel handle in the hands of a bass fisherman. He stands in the boat, backswings the rod over his shoulder a little and with an authoritative flick of his wrist and forearm he lands his lure in just the spot he aimed.

Now, imagine, if you will, a lure on the end of that line. It dangles several inches off the end of the rod. Tethered to that reel, the line is strung through the eyes and holds the lure closely. Then, the lure is swung across the shoulder of the fisherman and is violently airborne -- still tethered -- as it sails over the surface of the water and enters, missile like, ungloriously and unceremoniously onto the surface where it immediately breaks through and sinks into a murky batch of undergrowth. It is reeled back in fits and starts, sinking yet alternately being pulled upward against thick vegetation and dark water before being allowed to sink just a little once more before the next tug of the line that seems to control it.

Our practice of the New Testament body life is very much from the point of view of the lure. We are cast into darkness, but guided by something we really do not see except we catch a glimpse of a short stretch of this glowing line on occasion. We know we are being drawn. We know the line is our guide. We know someone is on the other end of it and is doing the drawing. We trust that this someone knows what it is doing, but we admit we don't really, really know. We really do not know what other lures on other lines at other times experience but we get some information and we can draw partial, fragmented and sketchy conclusions. If we look at what we know of the experiences of others lures on other lines at other times, and we look at our own experience, we may conclude that this whole exercise is rather pointless.

BUT. But... There is another point of view. It is that first one. The view from the boat. The view of the fisherman. We see him sometimes. He pulls us closely enough at intervals that we get very, very close to him. And, what he sees is something HE understands fully. He knows why he's in the boat. He knows why he has chosen us as his lures. He knows what equipment he has and what he is using in this particular place we find ourselves being cast and reeled over and again. He knows how to rig the line to keep us tied on, and he knows what he's doing with us. He artfully aims us. He knows how to maneuver the boat with his trolling motor to keep everything positioned in ways that we don't understand. And, every now and again, we catch hold of something in the water and he drags us through it with a fish in tow and he is very, very pleased with what he's done as he takes the fish off of us and does what he wants with it.

My point is this: We cannot depend on the experiences of other churches and other people in other times and other places to know what God is doing with us now. His Word speaks. His Spirit witnesses. The Son abides within. We hear and we obey. We have enough knowledge, enough sense, enough understanding from Him that we know He knows what He is doing, even now. Even now all these generations later, after a thousand lures have been used and put away and after the lines are renewed and the lakes and ponds and creeks change. It isn't our view of the early church that governs us. It is our view of the captain of our salvation, the one whose boat we are in, who casts us where it pleases Him and He brings us through whatever drags of darkness and moments of light.

It is a dangerous thing in these days of deception to overstate the importance of the writings of those of old outside of Scripture. They have some utility, yes. But, they were imperfect as we are imperfect. If we base our lives in Christ, our lives in the church of Jesus, on the reported and recorded experiences of others then or now, we are setting ourselves up for the very dangers 2 Tim. 3:1-5 warn us against.

Greetings all in the lovely and matchless name of our Lord Jesus. I would like to address the Original Post and also brother Greg.

I too have been involved personally in home fellowships and have met even with house church leaders and pastors who were seeking to implement house churches in our area in San Diego, CA.

What I see has also been shared by others, and that God can use both. We have such a propensity in our flesh to polarize between issues and draw lines in the sand and try and make everything "this or that” or "all or nothing”. Now, I am not talking about the deity of Christ or clear doctrine, but rather God’s purposes and methods in building His kingdom.

Let me say this plainly: God has and will employ means and use people to do things that I would never do or approve of!! Think of it!! Would you have solved a tax problem with a fish? Would you have sent the spies to stay with a prostitute in Jericho? Would you have anointed Samson, and then re-used him after his fall?? Would you have called Saul of Tarsus to serve you? Would you have put your own Son on a cross? Would you put your spit on someone’s eye to heal them? The list goes on and on and on. One thing is certain, God’s ways are not our ways and His thoughts so much higher than ours! Far be it for us to be more rigid and un-approving than God!

Additionally, God does not dwell in a temple any longer that is made of brick and mortar, (I know we all know this) so to act like He would depart from the "institutional church” ALL across the board is absolutely contradictory to His Name and His New Covenant promise. Can God be quenched in a local assembly? Most definitely, but who’s to say the little "institutional church” down the street can’t be brimming with the glory of God because the saints representing that fellowship are walking in the light of the Lord?

We want it to either be "institutional church” or "Home Fellowships”, but in all reality, doesn’t the Lord work in both and don’t we see them both in scripture? People would gather publicly in a place of worship that was central and large enough to provide a place of worship, and then when they wanted more intimate fellowship they would meet in houses and have food together and continue it on throughout the week? Seems simple enough to me! And yet, I have seen the "anti-institutional church” club so bleak and dreary on church buildings and gatherings and so intoxicated with their own pain, wounds and ‘prophetic insights’ that they appear to me to be just like Jonah, sitting on a hill outside the city waiting for God to destroy it so they will be vindicated. It’s almost like there are those who want to see God depart from the traditional church model so that their prophetic warnings and pronouncements of Ichabod will be justified. It’s very sad.

Listen beloved, I have been wounded deeply by church leadership and under the traditional model, but it would be SO WRONG for me to pitch a tent on the hill outside with Jonah. Think of where Jonah SHOULD HAVE BEEN…he should have been combing the streets of Ninevah offering hope to people and discipling the repentant. Instead he refused to take part in the way God was working because he didn’t like it!!

Here’s the truth, as long as the born again saints of God are gathering together in Jesus Name, God will always meet them whether they are in a house, in a barn, in a cave, in a tree, in a hotel, in a building that is designed for gatherings etc. I know of churches that rent out night clubs because they get a good price during off hours!

Just as there can be leadership abuse in the institutional church there certainly can be amongst house fellowships. As it’s already been said, often times it’s the disgruntled and wounded who are the biggest advocates of the house church only scene. I am not saying all house churches operate this way ”“ absolutely not, there are precious gatherings of sincere believers in homes around the world and I praise Jesus for that. I just don’t believe God can be forced to choose sides, or that His Spirit is on one or the other. We must never stuff God into a little cage because the Lion of the Tribe of Judah will break out.

Brother Greg

Thank you for your ministry and labor in the Lord. I have grown so much from gleaning from the sermons and discussions on this website. It’s because of this ministry that I have become acquainted with many of the speakers that I never would have listened to before because they were from a different era and from a different circle. I always remember the quote from Leonard Ravenhill that "bee’s collect pollen from many flowers” and it’s true!! Because of this platform I have even become close friends with some dear servants of the Lord who have their messages on here, and we were able to connect as a result of it. I have read through the Principles book and I really really enjoyed it, and it was powerful in my life during the season I was considering planting a house church. But I do recall getting that sense in my spirit that it seemed like it was the "only” way, and that did not settle with me. I praise God that you have the spiritual elasticity to be stretched and continue to go forward with the Lord allowing him to shape and mold your thinking ”“ this is what true humility is all about. Thank you for writing the letter that you wrote about this, bless you.

Personal Testimony Now

I am currently in fellowship at a large institutional church in San Diego, CA area and I have been blown away by the Biblical position this church takes. We spend at least 50 minutes every Sunday in the Word, going through the scriptures expositionally. The men’s ministry that meets Monday is off the hook right now. There are over 150 men who come and invest their lives each week for 2 hours, and we are currently devoting 45 minutes to group prayer after we study through prayers in the Bible. The group I am in is 10-12 guys and we are texting each other all week long and praying for one another constantly. Home fellowships under the covering of a very gentle pastor meet throughout the week and you can meet in someone’s home and have fellowship on a personal level. Wednesday Night the kids have Bible club and learn the scriptures and offer parents the opportunity to go on dates and strengthen their marriages. Prayer every morning of the week, corporate prayer Thursday night.

Even now, they have constructed a scale model of the tabernacle for people to visit and tour and listen to a one hour Bible study through it and it’s like nothing I have ever done ”“ it’s like you’re in a Bible study walking through Hebrews and seeing Christ in everything. I am not saying all this to boast in the church or make anyone feel ashamed in any way, but I am trying to highlight the fact that this is all taking place at an "institutional church”.

Please understand my heart in this! Let’s endeavor to embrace unity in the Spirit on this one, and trust Jesus to work inside and outside the walls, conventionally and unconventionally. God is so much bigger than our view points and spiritual framework. I rejoice in being able to be a part of this kind of fellowship, but I don’t place my hope in it. Should persecution arise and become so fierce tomorrow that we can no longer meet in this way, this precious gathering of people here will disperse into homes and places throughout the city and seek to continue on in fellowship in Jesus’ Name. I hope and pray that if/when that day comes, that the house church only crowd will welcome us into their circles and not turn us out into the cold.

In Life Together, In Death with Him together, Redeemed by His Blood Together, One Together and always in Him.

-Kevin Bruce

What I see has also been shared by others, and that God can use both.

Yes I agree with most part of what you wrote.
Yes God can use both. I myself was born again through an institutional church.
But the fact that God can use someone does not mean he is pleased with them. God using something and God being pleased with something are 2 different things.

Here’s the truth, as long as the born again saints of God are gathering together in Jesus Name, God will always meet them whether they are in a house, in a barn, in a cave, in a tree, in a hotel, in a building that is designed for gatherings etc. I know of churches that rent out night clubs because they get a good price during off hours!

Rev 3:20:- Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

The Lord was standing outside of Laodicea church. If Jesus will always gather with believers then he should be inside Laodicea Church. It only means that there are more conditions to Matt 18:20.

I am not saying insitituation churches do not have the presence of God. They may have but I do not believe all of them have it just because of Matt 18:20. I also do not believe all home fellowships have the presence of God as well.

My problem with most institutional churches is not just the lack of strong word or fellowship, it is also certain practices that are unbiblical. What about passing the offering box?

I heard that these Churches have to give a report of their attendees to banks to which they owe money. Now if they give the real count then most banks will increase their interest rates, hence to avoid it, they often fake the numbers to the banks. Just the way they are designed or setup makes them depend to much on inflow of money rather than God. As Jesus said one cannot serve both God and money. I think it is the love for money that will differentiate a true bride of Jesus from a fake bride.

Greg,

Thanks for your reply. I pretty much agree with everything you have written in it. I was in no way suggested that the whole church became apostate in the first or second century and that now we need to restore a newly restored truth. Yes that is deception.

Maybe we are thinking on different issues. I was just thinking about what to me is clear teaching in scripture regarding things such as plurality of eldership, servant leadership and no hieratical structure (not lording it over the flock). So where the early church fathers introduced practices that were clearly different to what is 'written' we must choose God's word I think.

Some of the terms used in today's church are not supported by scripture, such as 'Pastor' There is no 'Pastor' titled position in scripture. To 'pastor' is a verb and what elders should be doing, i.e shepherding (watching and feeding the flock). There is no 'Bishop' postion in scripture. The word is 'overseer' and is used interchangeably with Elder as it is what an Elder does (oversee). Some of the practices in Church history have kept traditions that nullify the word of God.

All that said, I do believe God still worked and does work mightily in the traditional church structures, even if I see them as not perfect. Just as well as none of us are perfect in all out understanding and God still uses us!

The criticisms of the Western "corporate church" (by whatever name you prefer) are valid. But, the house church 'movement' (such as it is) in America is an imperfect response. On balance, at least in my own opinion, the home based fellowship is far and away preferable still.

That is not to say there are not exceptions. Some corporate churches have thriving smaller sets of genuine fellowship and NT gifts and leadership operating in varying degrees in them. The larger church fellowship gives structure and help to these in some cases. I am aware of a church in Virginia, also, that is giving itself very fully to discipling its people to treat their homes AS churches, their families AS disciples.

Personally, the thought of being part of a Sunday-corporate-brick-and-mortar church again makes my stomach turn. It breaks my heart. I have gotten spoiled in our little fellowship at our house, but the day is coming pretty soon when that just won't happen anymore. We'll leave and we'll have to do something. In my own heart, it is settling for far, far less than we're called to whenever we darken the doorstep of any established church congregation.

But, I've pretty much given up any fight I've had in me to say to those around me that Americanism has so infected our churches that we can't get to anything approaching NT life in His body. I don't have it in me anymore. Unless the Lord does something along these lines to surprise me --- and He may, you never know --- whenever we move, I will probably lead our little family to take a seat in a Sunday pew in a noise-filled room with electric guitars and hair-gelled pastors and youth pastors and money and hype and all the rest and go through the motions of a plastic-banana fellowship. Because, in the end, I'm not any different than any other schmuck in a pair of shoes.

Hey Tim,

I know you are a better than man than that, to sell out so easily to such a thing as you describe! :)