Opinions wanted

If I were this person my response would be "why do we have to compare what flawed humans have done to what an all powerful and Holy God would do? God had any number of other solutions available to him short of total annihilation" --- or something like that.

The problem is that the story does not make logical sense so it's difficult to use logic to defend it.

I've come across this line of reasoning more than once. It all boils down to people thinking they know better than God; it's self righteousness. Should God have just let the Canaanites keep murdering children? Just let the citizens of Sodom and Gommorah rape and torture innocent travellers? I've learned to never apologize for God. If someone mentions the flood, I'll say "God also commanded the Israelites to wipe out the Canaanites, and He has judged other societies in the past." If someone questions God's actions, I will tell them (in love), "It's YOUR sense of justice that is warped."

I would point out that God gave the pre flood world 120 years to repent, and the canaanites over 400.

I like what Ray Comfort said about Richard Dawkins, namely, that he is an idolater. He has constructed a cruel, angry, vengeful god while totally ignoring God's mercy, love and justice. These self professed atheists like Bill Maher and Christopher Hitchens are really good at knocking down straw men, but that's it.

Quote:

"I would point out that God gave the pre flood world 120 years to repent, and the canaanites over 400."

In regard to the canaanites, what meaningful opportunity were they given to repent? Just curious where you see this in scripture.

We know that Noah was a preacher of righteousness, and that must mean he warned the people of his day. However, some estimates say there were millions of people living in the pre flood world. In all probability, Noah did not preach to every person in the pre flood world. People have a God given conscience. They know right from wrong.
Surely the Canaanites knew their immoral practices were wrong and wicked in the sight of God. When God made a covenant with Abraham, He said, "In the fourth generation your descendants will come back here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure." Genesis 15:16. That sounds like God was giving them an opportunity to repent.

Genesis 6:1,2,4 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose. There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

I think one of the reasons that God was so grieved with mankind which triggered the flood as judgment to wipe out this corrupted race of humans was that the basic make up (DNA) of created man had so dramatically changed that they were turn into a hybrid of man and the son's of God.

The Bible describes God’s selection of Noah in order to preserve mankind. Noah qualified because he was "perfect” in his generation. Could it be that he had perfect human DNA which was not corrupted by the sons of God.

On that note: we have reached a time where once again the human DNA could be tampered with....

Nigel- I know all that. But who was preaching to the Canaanites??

It is hard for people to repent who are preached to, much more so those who hear nothing.

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us,[fn] not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3. 9

Todd, I know you are being 'atheists advocate', but although there is no clear evidence that anyone preached to the Canaanites, but there is also no evidence to say someone did not, or that they did not know right from wrong.

However as believers we know it is God's character to be merciful and always give men opportunity to repent, so that is why we would know that if God waited in His patience 400 years before He brought judgemnt it was to give time to see if they would change their ways, much like the people of Ninevah in Jonah's day.

That may not sattisfy an atheist who wants an accuse to accuse God of wickedness, but it should satisfy a believer and also a person who genuinely wants to find God.

Edit:Scripture added.

Todd, I'm sure the Canaanites heard news from neighbouring countries, and that would have included Egypt where the Israelites were for 400 years. They must have known about God. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob sojourned among them. They must have known about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Even in the book of Joshua, news spread pretty fast to the Canaanites that the children of Israel were coming to occupy the land. They even had the opportunity to leave before Joshua and his armies got there. All of this, coupled with their consciences (if they still had one) screaming at them "No!!! It's wrong to sacrifice children on altars!!! It's wicked to have sex with animals!!! Stop this or God will judge you!!!" Even if there is no scripture verse that says "God sent the prophet so-and-so to warn the Canaanites", God is still merciful. Why bother giving them 400 years at all? Why not just raise up another nation to wipe them off the face of the map?

And as for atheists, none of their arguments hold any water. Bill Maher criticizes religion, but he is in favour of legalized prostitution! Think of it! Has this blind leader of the blind ever met a prostitute? They are poor, hurting victims who have to sell their bodies to satisfy some horrible addiction or get money for their pimp! There are many child prostitutes; some of them are raped, murdered and abused beyond my powers of description. And these so-called "enlightened" atheists who have thrown off the shackles of "oppressive religion" have a problem with justice? They complain that "God did nothing to help the Jews during the holocaust", for example, but if God does judge a nation like the Canaanites, they say He is barbaric! They would say the same thing if God intervened in wartime Germany. (Which He did if you think about it; he sent the Allies.)

These are all good arguments.

What convinced me about the evil of the canaanites is that they had a huge hollow bronze statue of molech with arms stretched out in front. They built fires inside the idol and it got red hot. Then they would get music playing really loud so that when they laid a baby in the outstretched arms it's screams would not interfere with their orgies in front of the idol.

God would not be God if He did not judge such wickedness.

Colin, I don't agree that fallen angels can mate with women. A lot of this is from the book of Enoch, and some people have tried to make Genesis agree with it. I agree with John Wesley's commentary:

"That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose." Genesis 6:2

The sons of God ”” Those who were called by the name of the Lord, and called upon that name, married the daughters of men - Those that were profane, and strangers to God. The posterity of Seth did not keep to themselves as they ought, but intermingled with the race of Cain: they took them wives of all that they chose - They chose only by the eye: They saw that they were fair - Which was all they looked at.

It would also seem to contradict Matthew 22:30 "At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven."

Quote: Colin, I don't agree that fallen angels can mate with women.

Here is something for you to think about..

Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

"they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men"

Just what (or who) are "mingling with the seed of men?" These would seem to refer to some beings who are not the seed of men themselves!

Could this be a hint of a return to the mischief of Genesis 6?

Jesus said,

But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep. John 10:26

OPINION - The judgment which the mind forms of any proposition, statement, theory or event, the truth or falsehood of which is supported by a degree of evidence that renders it probably, but does not produce absolute knowledge or certainty.

OPINION is when the assent of the understanding is so far gained by evidence of probability, that it rather inclines to one persuasion than to another, yet not without a mixture of uncertainty or doubting. - Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Our calling is to proclaim the Truth of God in His Word, not our opinions!

Frank: Romans 2 gives what I think is the best argument. Man has an innate knowledge that there is a God to whom he is accountable. His very sense of being right or of being wronged and the laws he makes as a result are ample evidence of that. A truly honest man will seek for that creator.

I have dealt with many people who ask the kind of questions that this man is asking you. In most all cases, the question is simply an argument, meant to sooth the mind and give justification for rejecting God. They usually don't really want to know. They usually know already, and reject, hence the argument.

On the outside chance that this man is sincere with his question, and he may very well be, I would turn him to scripture. I would show him that we are all worthy of death by the very fact that we have sinned, and that a person who does not turn to God doubly so be the fact that this person has spurned the sacrifice of his creator that was meant to reinstate their once lost relationship.

Another interesting note about Genesis and the flood. There is some scriptural evidence that the pre-flood people had a second chance after death to accept Christ. 1 Peter 3:18-20, depending, I guess, on how you understand these verses.

2 Timothy 2:19
The foundation of God stands firm, and it has this seal: "And THE LORD knows those who are His, and let everyone who calls on the name of THE LORD separate from evil."

Numbers 16:5
The LORD knows those who are His, and him who is holy, and hath brought near unto Him; even him whom He doth fix on, He bringeth near unto Him.

Savanna it would be helpful if you would explain what in the world you are talking about.