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the art of deflection

D
danstone Mar 21, 2017

brethren,

i hope this writing encourages you.

i will start with some scripture.

Gen 3

Now the serpent was more crafty than any wild animal which Adonai, God, had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, ‘You are not to eat from any tree in the garden’?” 2 The woman answered the serpent, "We may eat from the fruit of the trees of the garden, 3 but about the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden God said, ‘You are neither to eat from it nor touch it, or you will die.’” 4 The serpent said to the woman, "It is not true that you will surely die; 5 because God knows that on the day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it had a pleasing appearance and that the tree was desirable for making one wise, she took some of its fruit and ate. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her; and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized that they were naked. So they sewed fig leaves together to make themselves loincloths. They heard the voice of Adonai, God, walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, so the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Adonai, God, among the trees in the garden. 9 Adonai, God, called to the man, "Where are you?” 10 He answered, "I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, so I hid myself.” 11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I ordered you not to eat?” 12 The man replied, "The woman you gave to be with me ”” she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.” 13 Adonai, God, said to the woman, "What is this you have done?” The woman answered, "The serpent tricked me, so I ate.”

another passage

Gen 4

So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground. 4 Abel, on his part also brought of the first-lings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering; 5 but for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. So Cain became very angry and his countenance fell. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.” 8 Cain told Abel his brother. And it came about when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, "I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?”

some of you may have heard this saying, 'its always someone else's fault.' maybe you haven't, but its one of my favorite phrases. whether its an disagreement on scriptural issues, or views on movies. one of the two parties or both parties will always think their right in what they think, say, and interpretation of the bible. sometimes slander and name calling is a result. some tend to impose or force views on others. but in the end, as mentioned before, one of the parties will think it is the other person's fault.

(this is a side note, or more like a rabbit trail.but maybe its the example im trying to talk about)
its always been interesting to see the featured sermons like, whose touching the ark? or the one a few weeks ago (i cant remember the name or the pastor, but its along the lines of Ravenhills present sermon.) then the sermon, blessedness of the unoffended. yet, within the atmosphere of those sermons, the forums tended not to reflect the richness of those sermons. people were offended, and then sometimes i seen that people missed the point of the sermons completely, or else maybe i have missed the point. because simply put, those sermons are about the will of the Sovereign God and what we do has pretty much no impact on the Triunes Will.(not to neglect our role)but at the end of time the Lord will have the final say and we will be accountable to whether or not we were obedient or not. (i am aware of the cal vs arm, debates, but the bible teaches both) this is where the art of deflection has become art perfected. people would rather defend their views, their theology, etc. to a point that the moderator's would have to shut down the talks, or slander and name calling which in the end brings shame to our testimony and the brethren. yet, in the end, each party will walk away justified blaming the other party. i praise God and i feel so encouraged when brothers and sisters come to confess they were wrong because they have come to where as believers we can be stronger witness. to be quick to confess our sins instead of blaming others.

look at the scriptures shown, each are perfect examples of deflection, and it is ingrained in us so much that we have become blind to it. adam blames eve, and yes, we all know that adam should have said something, but adam didnt, he deflected his responsibility as the 'man' and put the blame on his wife. then eve deflected her choice and blamed the serpent. but it is also necessary to point out that eve not only blamed the serpent, but she added something of her own, she added 'touch it'. sometimes as descendants from adam and eve, we tend to throw a little something extra in our debates, whether its another teaching or another point, but it may sometimes be unrelated. this is something that happens in our modern 'talks' too, sometimes the forums to be more specific.
then look at cain, when God asked where Abel was, he deflected his actions with the question 'am i my brothers keeper?' the answer is obviously, yes. why? we intercede for our brothers/sisters, encourage, rebuke, love, etc. but instead, there was deflection.

if the goal and challenge is to walk as our Lord did, then i think we need to realize that Christ didnt deflect. like sure, He didnt want to drink the cup, but He did. Jesus also showed that he didnt one up each other.

i dont mean to sound like i have this perfected, but, this applies to me just as much as everyone else, its part of self-denial, isnt it? or, will it always be someone else's fault?

J
JFW Mar 22, 2017

Brother Daniel,
This is a noteworthy observation and unfortunately I must agree with you that this is all too prevalent within the body of Christ.
It's shameful that we love our doctrines and theology more than we do our brethren or even the Lord. How is it that we blasphem His name with our behavior as well as our words and attitudes all while defending Him? It's so hypocritical so as to border on insanity...
I wonder how many care as much about bringing honor to His namesake by debasing themselves as they care about bringing honor to themselves by debasing Him?
...but didn't our Lord Himself say; "the love of many will grow cold"...

D
danstone Mar 24, 2017

this is true brother.

i was thinking about the phrase, i maybe off a bit but, 'you dont truly get beat up, unless its by a christian'.

i found it interesting as i read the past forums about revival and the differing definitions of what it means. some would say revival starts from Christ working within a person to have a personal revival, that would flow out and impact others. others say its an act(s) of God working to bring (lost) souls to Him, in the most literal sense as we walk this earth. i think, regardless of each position, that the point of it is the inner working of the Holy Spirit to manifest the work of Christ in our lives. not just ours as brethren, but the world. because them too, their not needing a new definition of Christianity, but a new demonstration of it.
i think to start to demonstrate this is to realize our weakness and maybe innocent blindness to deflection. i cant really give anyone more scriptural proof of saying, dont deflect, but maybe some scripture on the realization of maybe consequences of this.

when deflection happens, lots of things can happen, superiority, slander, etc. but some people tend to feel judged. the deflectors maybe become unaware that they have become the judge in acting as their knowledge is the correct truth. yet when this happens, sometimes i think we forget the consequences of our actions. Christ literally spelt out these consequences as to what happens in the sermon on the mount.

Matt. 7:1-5"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2 For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye

i think verse 2 is tragically overlooked. sure some people can argue about whether or not Jesus told others to judge or see their fruit, i can understand that. but what i dont agree with is how people still judge, because it essentially means they become the judge, and then take over the Lords role (this is still impossible to happen because we are finite beings and the Christ is infinite) but when we do this we take that role, knowingly or unknowingly. either way, the consequence is that the standard we use to judge will be used against us. sure, some people have proper theology, proper character, know the right words, etc. but, everyone is a descendant of Adam, and because of that, maybe, just maybe, our faults tend to result as 'the love of many will grow cold'. yet we hold onto our truths, quotes, etc. so strongly that we become the judge, and we find ourselves without sin. and we know what 1 john says about that.
most of my life, i was unaware of this, i only learned or have had the Spirit open my blind eyes to this, because i too was bad for this, deflection, becoming judge, and seeing specks in the eyes of my brothers and sisters negating the log in mine. always blaming someone else for their misunderstanding, or ignorance. but like i mentioned, this maybe a way to put that hurtful testimony of, 'you dont truly get beat up, unless its by a christian' to an end.

i hope i can communicate this properly, it is a hard thing to do on a forum or through computer screens.

-sdg-

D
davym Mar 24, 2017

Hi Daniel

Appreciate your thoughts here brother.

I think you've touched on something very deep and we could discuss for a long time.

"its always been interesting to see the featured sermons like, whose touching the ark? or the one a few weeks ago (i cant remember the name or the pastor, but its along the lines of Ravenhills present sermon.) then the sermon, blessedness of the unoffended. yet, within the atmosphere of those sermons, the forums tended not to reflect the richness of those sermons."

Although frustrating I guess this is somewhat inevitable. If we were all filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in unity it would be a beautiful thing. In reality, we'd do well to realise that our words are fallible and open to encouragement or critique. This is good and necessary.

There is a tremendously well thought out basis for posting on the forum i.e. the guiding principles. These are ultimately based on God's Word. When these are ignored, then the world's principles will take their place. Conversations on this forum, however, are not of the same nature as conversations on other (worldly) forums. Those forums can have unity, but they'll never unite around anything truly of God. Satan won't allow it.

Deflection is something I am guilty of. Rather than taking responsibility for my words and allowing my mind to be open to correction, I may try to deflect in some way.

However, I've also respected others on the forum who have stood their ground for what I would consider truth.

It's a tricky path we tread on Sermonindex.

God bless

David

J
JFW Mar 24, 2017

Brother Daniel wrote,"i think, regardless of each position, that the point of it is the inner working of the Holy Spirit to manifest the work of Christ in our lives. not just ours as brethren, but the world. because them too, their not needing a new definition of Christianity, but a new demonstration of it.
i think to start to demonstrate this is to realize our weakness and maybe innocent blindness to deflection. i cant really give anyone more scriptural proof of saying, dont deflect, but maybe some scripture on the realization of maybe consequences of this."

Amen yes and Amen to this dear brother!

It is my hope that my words did not preclude my heart from being expressed and come as judgmental,... if so then you and all who might read them have my sincerest apologies as that was not the intent.

Recently I had prayed that the Lord would (like Elisha) open my eyes spiritually so as to see what He would have us see in this time...
Honestly I was unprepared for the outpouring of His Holy grief into my heart, overwhelming would be an understatement, and such a sense of urgency was this grief packaged in so as to compound it exponentially. The great grief was over the disunity of His body (the church) and the urgency seemed (to me) less about the immediacy of Christs return and more about the dire state of the church at large.
This sentiment He has continued to press upon me as again this morning He roused me around 3:00am and shared more of His Holy grief, His sorrow- and after a few hours of quiet time I felt compelled to look up a sermon I didn't know existed. Brother Keith Daniels name and ministry just kept being brought to my mind so I searched and found a sermon posted this morning that had no views and just knew it was the one... after only a few minutes of listening the Lord clearly confirmed His previous, personal word to me by the words spoken at least a day earlier by brother Daniels...
Needless to say I have wept deeply this morning and have been thoroughly sobered by the mercy of our Lord.

So brother, your heart and words find a prepared place in my heart and they are well received. May we pray and intercede for the glory of our King:)

Here is the sermon; https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KarGduU1QHw

D
danstone Mar 27, 2017

brothers,
thank you for your responses. the honesty in them. the testimony of what the Spirit is doing.

i find these verses encouraging when it comes to realizing our faults in deflection.

this is an interesting voice to point out quickly. that paul quoted the Lord,

2 Cor.12
9"And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness.” Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. 10 Therefore I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ’s sake; for when I am weak, then I am strong."

then to draw out what paul says too, 'I am well content with weaknesses, with insults, with distresses, with persecutions, with difficulties, for Christ's sake. sure paul had a dispute, probably some, but in the end, i think he was able to keep his mouth under control, even after the name calling etc. and he doesnt finish there, for when he is weak, then, he is strong.

is it a goal for Christ's strength to be perfected through us? not the ultimate or the only ends to a means, but, for the lost to see Christ, the light on the hill, possible revival?

easier said then done. yes. possible? well the testimonies show it.

also, really interesting attitude that paul shows as opposed to what is shown as a 'christian' would show.

thanks for the sermon brother.

J
JFW Mar 27, 2017

Yes dear brother,
That is the crux of the matter, our need of Him and our willingness to need Him- would even say it should be an "ever increasing dependency upon Him" and all by faith :)

As far as I can see this (deflection) started in the garden with Adam, whom deflected responsibility to Eve who then followed suit and blamed the serpent,... and it continued with Cain and was handed down to us as a default position and continues to this day. It's a lie, of course, that we can defer our responsibility yet we are all prone to try to do so even if in subtler ways. Wether through excuses, distraction, or intimidation we have all succumbed to the desire to deflect at one time or another. Even Gods law was used as a means to deflect (Good Samaritan) and now the gospel is no different as we saw with Martha in contrast to Mary....
There are (as you say) a great number of examples of deflection in the scriptures just as there are a number of examples of not deflecting but of humility, of magnifying Christ.

Another sermon that speaks to a particular aspect of this subject is by Paris Reidhead from 1961 entitled "Satanic strategies" it's been a blessing to me to help observe the subtly with which we participate in them as it's not only sin that is used to distract us but also "good things" like Martha's "service...
Here's that one and it's much shorter than brother Daniels -https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hXAk6yqo86w


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