Acts 2-5 and the Seeker friendly church

I want to post this question to this group because I will not be able to get an answer from the original source.

A few days ago, while enroute to work, I was listening to a segment of wretch radio with Todd Friel and the subject was the seeker friendly church. It is from April 4. He played part of a sermon from John MacArthur and John talked about how some churches are turning into seeker sensitive churches but scripture says there is no one who seeks after God.

Well, he took them to the book of Acts from chapter 2-5. He said that in these chapters God performed alot of miracles, signs and wonders and people came and got converted but it began to get out of hand and people were coming to the 'church' not for God but because of the signs and wonders. God cut them off via the killing of Annias and Sapphira. As a result many people left and only those who really wanted God stayed.

When you read those chapters I am not reading that. I see aspects of that it could be possible but I am wondering how MacArthur is coming up with this explanation from the book of Acts.

What are your thoughts?

I don't see what John MacArthur is saying in Acts either. I am not sure how he is reading this.

My initial thought was how is he getting that out of that text and then I wondered if he read some history that we don't know about. Then I thought 'Wait, is he inserting something into the text that isn't there but sounds good enough?'

JM is an esteemed pastor in the reformed camp. You raise questions about him and they will crucify you. I am going to find a way to contact JM or even Phil Johnson about this message to find out more of where he is getting this injection from.

In Christianity, cessationism is the doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the apostolic age. This is generally opposed to continuationism, which teaches that the Holy Spirit may bestow the spiritual gifts on persons other than the original twelve apostles at any time. Wikipedia

I believe JM embraces much of the cessation doctrines and so generally speaking justifies that position when it comes to the signs and wonders spoken of in the NT as it relates to the church today. People generally view scripture through the lens of the doctrines they embrace and they will work to make them fit into their system of thought and belief.

I believe JM embraces much of the cessation doctrines and so generally speaking justifies that position when it comes to the signs and wonders spoken of in the NT as it relates to the church today. People generally view scripture through the lens of the doctrines they embrace and they will work to make them fit into their system of thought and belief.

I agree and I am often reminded of something that happened to me a few years ago regarding this. I was out running and I heard the word 'Seduction' spoken to me over the radio playing in my ear. This kind of thing reminds of that instance in asking..............is JM doing a seduction of scripture with this interpretation because it suits reformed theology and establishes a precident for cessationsim?

I like some of JM's preaching but at the same time I am on guard when I listen because of 'seduction'. I find myself more careful than ever when listening to any preaching because any one of us can be subtle seduced away from the Gospel.

There is a cottage industry around John MacArthur, Steve Lawson and R.C. Sproul. It is almost like the "Gaither Family", sitting round on a stage and smiling supportively while each of them performs. These "conferences" are lucrative promotions, extremely gratifying for the performers and over time tend to become more than just echo chambers. They become incubators for innovation on Scripture. The strange thing is that these particular personalities front on the theme of sola Scriptura. A reading of Acts 2-5 such as the one proposed here is pure innovation, an aberration, one with an agenda, being designed to support the idea that gifts in the church are no longer. It is a disgusting little piece of work.

In Christianity, cessationism is the doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the apostolic age. This is generally opposed to continuationism, which teaches that the Holy Spirit may bestow the spiritual gifts on persons other than the original twelve apostles at any time. Wikipedia

A very small difference in focus can, eventually, lead to a very gross error. If we focus on a denominational, doctrinal distinction, we will eventually need to re-interpret or mis-interpret some portion of scripture to maintain our own man-made interpretation. It is subtle, but it will happen. On the other hand, if we are willing to allow God to change our own human opinions based upon what He shows us from His word, we will stay right in the middle of the road that we are supposed to be on.

I can look back over my walk with God and I can see many adjustments that have had to happen in my opinions about doctrine. I have been wrong in the past. I am certain that I have some wrong opinions now, I hope less now than in the past. But I am determined to hold my own opinions loosely and to hold the truth of His word tightly, so that the truth of His word can freely adjust my opinions.

The danger comes when we go to scripture seeking "proof texts" for our own positions or when we read scripture in the context of our own opinions, drawing conclusions from the light of our own ideas.

The interpretation McArthur seems to be making is really strange.

https://www.wretchedradio.com/media/free-podcast/the-wretched-segment-of-the-day-march-04-2017

Here is the clip of what I am talking about. JM's clip starts about 5:30 mark. It is only 12 minutes for the whole thing. It sounds good what JM is saying but when you investigate it it is very fishy.

Is this seduction of text?

So let me see if I understand John MacArthur's position on gifts and miracles in the early 1st century church: Initially God performed many miracles, signs, wonders and gifts which brought many unsaved people into the church. But somehow God was caught off guard and didn't realize that these miracles, etc. would draw worldly people into the church for the sake of the miracles and they would not want to become disciples of Christ. So God had to put this into reverse by performing a miracle of death on two people so everyone witnessing it would understand that God is out of the miracle business and it is plain self-centered and carnal to want or expect God to ever intervene in human suffering or genuine need.

Wow, I have never heard anyone put that spin on this portion of scripture. And to use the episode of Ananias and Sapphira to support this is bizarre. They were not seeking a miracle. They were killed for lying to the Holy Spirit.

Like others have said, this is interpreting scripture through a biased lens. In other words, proof texting to justify a personal bias or agenda which is not warranted by an honest reading of the passage.

-Daniel

Brother Travis wrote:
"I can look back over my walk with God and I can see many adjustments that have had to happen in my opinions about doctrine. I have been wrong in the past. I am certain that I have some wrong opinions now, I hope less now than in the past. But I am determined to hold my own opinions loosely and to hold the truth of His word tightly, so that the truth of His word can freely adjust my opinions.

The danger comes when we go to scripture seeking "proof texts" for our own positions or when we read scripture in the context of our own opinions, drawing conclusions from the light of our own ideas."

That is very much the same experience I have had as well and like you I must leave room for the Lord to correct me and He has many ways and means to do this.

Perhaps we should all join in prayer for brother John...?

Brother Bear wrote: "But then this should serve as a warning to us. For if a noted Bible teachers such as John McArthur can fall into deception. We too are also prone to deception. Let us pray that God will keep us vigilant in these end time"

How true and sobering your words are dear brother- we would do to take heed and examine ourselves lest when we think we stand, we fall...

There is such a massive responsibility in being a teacher of Gods word and surely the enemy has a vested interest in distracting/deceiving them even more than a lay person due to the effect of their sphere of influence-
While I may not subscribe to a reformed grace doctrine, JM is nonetheless a brother and part of the same body as me and this pains me for Christs namesake as well as for my brothers sake and the body of Christ.

Brother John (deadn) thank you for bringing attention to this and doing so in a way that provides opportunity to pray and affect a restorative change:)

Yes dear brother:)
Lifted him up in prayer as well and will continue to, perhaps others are doing the same.

Fletcher: Perhaps we should pray? Amen brother. That is the conclusion we should come to. It is easy to be an arm chair quarterback without realizing the intensity of the attack against the man that is in the game. I strongly disagree with McAurther on several doctrinal points. I am the polar opposite of a cessationalist. I feel the doctrine is totally unscriptural. But regardless of my disagreement with McAurther, I realize that He is influencing many for Christ and that many are growing and strengthened by His ministry. As a result, the enemy will attempt to subvert His ministry, to get him to run a little bit off the rails, to tempt him into error. This is why we must pray for those who God has set into positions of ministry. If a leader gets off, he leads people into error.

We sometimes put leaders on a pedestal and think that they are somehow different than the people that they lead. This is simply untrue. They are only anointed to do a particular task, to lead the body, to grow and mature the body. But, as leaders, they are a bigger target. We need to remember that and pray for them daily.

Brother I did lift JM up in prayer this morning. I prayed he would walk in humility. I prayed God would guard him from deception. But also prayed God would guard us from deception. And that we too would walk in humility.

Bro Blaine

AMEN brother!