Well...what say, folks?
Bible Answer Man' converts to Eastern Orthodoxy
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2017/04/bible-answer-man-converts-to-greek-orthodox-church/#LR3e7HluksJqYIMu.99
Don't want to stir up a hornets nest but must admit this took me by surprise, or maybe I was not in tune to what he was saying? The fact is I rarely listen, or read these guys writings' anymore...
Sandra
Famous Christian celebrities - oxymoron?
My mind goes to Thomas Howard, Franky Shaeffer, John Howard Yoder, and others (these just came to my mind) - all well-known ....just goes to prove how important it is to allow the WORD to be our sole authority for doctrine and life. So many times famous people who have helped us will end up disappointing.
Sandra
EDITED
He goes into answering this on the latest broadcast: answering these 2 questions
I understand the Nicene creed predates the New Testament scriptures. What scriptures were this creed based on?
Have you changed you views on the nature of the elements in the sacrament of the Lord’s Supper?
http://www.equip.org/broadcast/jesus-cleansing-temple-qa/
This is the official reply from the CRI Ministry on their facebook page to a person asking about this:
Hank Hanegraaff is still faithful to Christ and a faithful Christian.
To understand more on Hank joining the Eastern Orthodox Church, please check out his responses to related questions on the following Bible Answer Man broadcasts:
Did you leave the Christian faith to become Greek Orthodox? http://www.equip.org/broadcast/islamic-terrorism-persecuted-christians-qa/ (4/10/2017)
What are the distinctive doctrines of Eastern Orthodoxy and why are you interested in Eastern Orthodoxy? http://www.equip.org/broadcast/sounding-alarm-qa/ (4/4/2017)
What church do you attend? http://www.equip.org/broadcast/incoherence-transgenderism-qa/ (2/7/2017 at 23:05)
CRI Staff
P.S. Hank takes on many responsibilities as President of CRI and host of the Bible Answer Man broadcast, which is why he commissions members of the research staff to oversee the needs of social media pages.
Wasn't Jesus, Himself enough for Hank Hanegraaff? One wonders?
Bro Blaine
The Credal Answer Man.
Next step for Hank? Catholicism. Its the Erasmus spirit. In the end it is not hard to see some men who will go down this path............bro Frank
QUOTE:
"Next step for Hank? Catholicism."
Thomas Howard did as did Franky Shaefer. Shaeffer really went off the rails, declaring himself eventually to be an atheist. (Franky found the arts drawing him to the Orthodox Church...so he said one time.)
I am no judge as to Hanks salvation but find it very odd to see folks going this route. I do wonder what factored into these decisions - was it easy Believism with no structure? Catholism and Eastern Orthodox have a lot of structure. I have observed there are people out there who find severe structure, culture appealing. Is this why some go there? Am asking the question..
Sandra
I had a chance to talk to Hank at length. I personally found no witness in my spirit. There is a certain kind of man, who outside of an actual encounter with the living God, who only has a "relationship" with God in his head, will go down this route. Consider this scripture..........
Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.
(Joh 2:23-25)
There is a certain kind of man who for reasons other than encountering and falling in love with Jesus, announce their belief in the Son of God. When a man genuinely commits his life to Jesus, Jesus commits himself to that man. They become one because they are genuinely born again. Only time can tell. Like the parable of the sower and the seed, the seed can take decades to identify itself.
Many are standing on the edge of the river Tiber. Many in these end times will flock back to Catholicism. They are not free therefore they love legalism and will be drawn to it. He who the Son sets free is free indeed. Free from the bondage of legalism. Paul would not stand for it, not even for an hour. If a man has been a captive for years and then set free by the Lord Jesus, nothing will compel him to return again to the bondage of legalism. This is part and parcel of the great falling away............bro Frank
I have to ask the question again. Was not Jesus, Himself enough for Hank Hannagraff? Often times, Evangelicals who convert to liturgical churches often say there is more meaning in the liturgy. There is something more substantive in the smells and bells.
Yet in the midst of all of this, I ask again, where is Jesus? Is not a relationship with the living Son of God enough to satisfy the spiritual longings of one's heart?
I find it interesting that our brothers and sisters in persecuted nations find the relationship with Jesus to be far more satisfying than a church structure. But then they are in a situation where a church structure is is not available to them. And that may be a blessing of persecution. But then, in the midst of persecution, you are either driven away from Christ or you are driven to Christ. And the fires of persecution often reduce one to a radical simplicity to Jesus and Him alone.
A little over 2 years ago, 21 Coptic believers died on the shores of Libya. The heads were sliced off by ISIS. These 21 brothers came out of an Orthodox Coptic background. On the day of their martyrdom. One Name became precious to them. One Person became their focus. And that Name was Jesus Christ. And their focus was the Son of God. On that day, 21 Coptic believers realized that none of the liturgy meant nothing. The only name that really mattered was the name of Jesus. Each one died with the name of Jesus Christ on his lips.
So I ask again of Hank Hanegraaff or any believer thinking of going into the RCC or orthodoxy or any religious system. Is Jesus Himself not enough?
Bro Blaine
I am not defending the move but simply posting this so that we can better understand what has led him to this move.
"...This week, Hanegraaff spent some of his airtime answering questions about his decision to leave Protestantism for Orthodoxy.
"People are posting this notion that somehow or other I’ve walked away from the faith and am no longer a Christian,” Hanegraaff said on his Tuesday broadcast. "Look, my views have been codified in 20 books, and my views have not changed.”
Hanegraaff and his wife Kathy have been attending the Orthodox church for more than two years, he said on his Monday broadcast.
His journey to Orthodoxy began with a trip to China, when "I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life,” he said.
On the flight back, Hanegraaff wondered if he was even a Christian. "I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ.”
He began to study the work of Watchman Nee and the idea of theosis (the Eastern Orthodox teaching on seeking union with God), which led him back to the early Christian church.
"I’ve been impacted by the whole idea of knowing Jesus Christ, experiencing Jesus Christ, and partaking of the graces of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist or the Lord’s table,” he said. "Nothing has changed in my faith.”
CT reported in 2009 how CRI critiques of Watchman Nee in the 1970s (prior to Hanegraaff’s tenure) led other theology watchdogs to label the Chinese Christian’s "local churches” movement a cult, but Hanegraaff acknowledged "we were wrong” and endorsed the movement’s orthodoxy in 2008. (The Local Church sued over the cult label in 2003.)
Hanegraaff’s move to Orthodoxy took a decade, and has put him and his wife on the same spiritual page, he said Tuesday.
"I have been typically more skewed toward truth and, quite frankly, Kathy more skewed towards life,” he said on air. "But today we are on precisely the same page in life and in truth, and we’re loving it. Daily we thank God that he has saved us by grace alone through an active faith in our dear Lord Jesus Christ.”
Hanegraaff’s move was welcomed by Rod Dreher, author of The Benedict Option and an Orthodox Christian.
"What astounding news,” he told The Christian Post. "Many evangelicals seek the early church; well, here it is, in Orthodoxy.”
The Eastern Orthodox Church is divided into 14 separate branches; last summer they attempted their first meeting since 787. Not everyone came; some boycotted over items missing from the agenda. (In more than 1,200 years, a lot of issues cropped up; the original list stretched to more than 100 items.)
Another historic meeting””between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill””also took place last summer, as the leaders of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches met at an airport in Cuba to discuss record levels of Christian persecution.
Meanwhile, Hanegraaff’s conversion gives evangelicals one more bridge to Orthodoxy after the loss of two leaders in 2012. Evangelical-friendly Metropolitan Jonah resigned under pressure, and Peter Gillquist, who led around 2,000 Protestants into Eastern Orthodoxy in 1987, passed away."
That's not to say that Israel is or should be immune from any and all criticism. It sure isn't doing everything right but on the behavioral scale Israel has always acted several steps up the ladder from its neighbors and the way they treat their own people and other peoples. Hangegraaff has come down pretty hard against Israel and this seems to be a tradition of sorts in the Orthodox communion so he will find some common ground there. In the future, the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican faith and many in the Evangelical world will end up being some of Israel's strongest critics and adversaries. Mr. Hangegraaff has already shown signs of belonging to that camp.
As bizarre as the actions of Mr. Hangegraaff are they are not nearly as bizarre as Joel Richardson's former colleague and co-author, Walid Shoebat and his conversion and defense of Roman Catholicism.
Hanegraaff writes..........
"His journey to Orthodoxy began with a trip to China, when "I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life,” he said.
On the flight back, Hanegraaff wondered if he was even a Christian. "I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Here we see a man struggle with the notion that true salvation has nothing to do with intellect. A head knowledge and mere mental assents to abstract truth is not, nor ever has been salvation. There are literally millions just like Hanegraaff in Christendom.
He further writes...........
"I’ve been impacted by the whole idea of knowing Jesus Christ, experiencing Jesus Christ, and partaking of the graces of Jesus Christ through the Eucharist or the Lord’s table,” he said. "Nothing has changed in my faith.”
And there we have it, life is, apparantly, to be found in the "Eucharist," the key fundamental tenet of Catholicism. How many millions of saints were martyred over their thoughts on "The Eucharist." Now theologians will rush in and tell you about transubstansiation and consubstansiation, do not be fooled brothers and sisters. The Lord Jesus dwells in the hearts of every genuine saint. He does not dwell in a piece of bread and neither does He dwell around a piece of bread.
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved Romans 10:9.
We must believe in our hearts unto salvation. In genuine salvation there is a change of heart. What Hanegraaff is involved in, and always has been, is religion and the path of all religions undoubtedly leads to the champion of all religions, Rome! ...............bro Frank
Well, that leaves Joel Richardson in the clear.
The point of my response was to show that ones view of Israel pertaining to eschatology is irrelevant when it comes to discussing there conversion to Catholicism.
clarity
I take your point. But be ready and forewarned of a coming storm against Israel.
Funny thing, I went to a Orthodox service a few times and it was among the most beautiful services I have ever been to even in charismatic circles. I knew I likely didn't agree with their doctrines, and I don't agree with all of them, but he ancient songs being sung in a Gregorian type of style among others was absolutely beautiful. The artwork and paintings and intricately carved wood were awesome and took on more meaning afterwards when a man explained to each aspect of these and the reason behind them. I'm not a believer that art work does not belong in churches. One of the first things a member asked me afterwards was if I read scripture on a regular basis. Sort of eye opening. And as goes without saying, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is my chief prize and object of desire. Rubbing shoulders with these Orthodox a bit though was a learning experience. No harm at all.
Funny thing, I went to a Orthodox service a few times and it was among the most beautiful services I have ever been to even in charismatic circles. I knew I likely didn't agree with their doctrines, and I don't agree with all of them, but he ancient songs being sung in a Gregorian type of style among others was absolutely beautiful. The artwork and paintings and intricately carved wood were awesome and took on more meaning afterwards when a man explained to each aspect of these and the reason behind them. I'm not a believer that art work does not belong in churches. One of the first things a member asked me afterwards was if I read scripture on a regular basis. Sort of eye opening. And as goes without saying, Jesus Christ of Nazareth is my chief prize and object of desire. Rubbing shoulders with these Orthodox a bit though was a learning experience. No harm at all.
Glad to hear this approach brother as I have had a similar experience with my run-in's with orthodox believers.
One time I was distributing tracts on a corner of a street to business men during a lunch time. I believe the Gospel is not just for people who go to bars but for business men, families etc. I was in prayer and felt the Lord was with me, I looked obviously strange admist the business people in suits, I had a simple white long shirt not tucked in, long beard and tracts about jesus christ (mini-bibles essentially).
I noticed one person watching me across the street and came towards me, I thought he was a seeker and offered him a gospel booklet. He told me he was a believer and started to share a very encouraging word from God that encouraged me alot, as I remember there was alot of spiritual warfare and I was having a hard time doing what I was doing so it was a timely encouragement.
I asked him what church he went to after awhile and he said without blinking "orthodox church". He was very kind and I sensed Christ with the man. I never ended attending his church as he did invite me at the end in a very gracious way. Experiences like this opened my eyes more about this "hidden" people in the western culture.
Towards brother Frank's comments, what I would disagree with is lumping Orthodox with Rome, as they are totally different things. If researched they are actually opposite of each other and protestants have alot more in common with orhtodox then roman catholics. Rome split from the Orthodox church in AD 1054. And protestants split from Rome in 1500's.
...His journey to Orthodoxy began with a trip to China, when "I saw Chinese Christians who were deeply in love with the Lord, and I learned that while they may not have had as much intellectual acumen or knowledge as I did, they had life,” he said...
I think our brother missed something about the Chinese church. They are a church under persecution. The reason the Chinese church endures and even thrives in persecution is because of intimacy with Jesus. Not because they are members of the Orthodox Church. This is why I keep posing the question. Is not Jesus Himself enough for Hank Hannagraff?
Bro Blaine
I think our brother missed something about the Chinese church. They are a church under persecution. The reason the Chinese church endures and even thrives in persecution is because of intimacy with Jesus. Not because they are members of the Orthodox Church. This is why I keep posing the question. Is not Jesus Himself enough for Hank Hannagraff?
I personally think Hannegraf saw the spirit of "worship" in the chinese church, they celebrate communion every service in most house churches and they usually do it very meaningfully with tears.
Perhaps that gave him a sense of importance towards communion and how modern evangelical churches in the west have side-stepped that practice by-in-large.
We are not missing Christ if we are doing the very things he reminds and tells us to do. We cannot have Jesus only as the NT and OT come also with belief in the Son of God and all the traditions and commands and practices of early believers in the Scriptures. So seeing something of Christ in the communion is probably right, how far we take that is another story, but treating it as mundane is obviously not in accord with the New Testament.
...On the flight back, Hanegraaff wondered if he was even a Christian. "I was comparing my ability to communicate truth with their deep and abiding love for the Lord Jesus Christ.”
He began to study the work of Watchman Nee and the idea of theosis (the Eastern Orthodox teaching on seeking union with God), which led him back to the early Christian church...
Again, our brother missed something regarding Watchman Nee. Watchman Nee was a believer who was imprisoned by the Chinese Communists for over 20 years . He died in prison. Because he spoke so much about Jesus Christ, the Chinese communists cut out his tongue. This is when the Lord opened up the writing ministry of the brother we call Watchman Nee. Again, it was because of intimacy with Jesus that Watchman Knee gave us his incredible books.
How our brother, Hank Hannagraff could be exposed to the persecuted church in China. And read the works of Watchman Nee. And jump to the Orthodox Church is one connection. I am missing.
It is only through an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ can one truly be satisfied. Joining the Orthodox ir the Roman Catholic church or any other organized church will not satisfy the longing of one's heart. That longing which is Jesus dwelling in one's heart through faith.
Our persecuted brothers and sisters in places like China do not have religious churches such as the Orthodox or even the Catholic church. But our persecuted brothers and sisters do have access to a relationship with Jesus Christ. They know Him through the Holy Spirit and by communing with him in prayer. This makes Jesus all the more precious to them. Thus, the word becomes all the more precious to them.
I think it is sad that Hank Hanegraaff feels he has to go to the Orthodox church to find a deeper relationship with Jesus. When all he has to do is call out to the Lord Jesus Christ and develop an intimate relationship with him alone.
Simply my thoughts.
Bro Blaine
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