Physical and Spiritual relam

I was hearing David Pawson this morning and I heard him mention a very good point that made so much sense to me. Let me try to paraphrase him.

The western education is based on Greek education which sees Physical and Spiritual as two different entity. Hence those from west see things either as spiritual or physical.

This made so much sense to me. For example when I talk about the need of continuous repentance, immediately I get accused that I believe in salvation by physical works. They do not see how a physical activity like repentance is closely coupled with a spiritual thing like salvation.

Our God does not separate those two. For example Water Baptism which is a physical event has so much spiritual importance. Laying of Hands to receive Holy Spirit is a physical event but it made the other person receive the Holy Spirit which is obviously spiritual.

As a person from East, coming from Hindu Faith, I find it not contradicting at all. In Hindu Faith we do lot of physical worship and believe they all have spiritual significance. Hence this attribute of God to couple physical and spiritual is not a surprise to me. My mind is tuned to think that way. But people from west are not.

This I believe could also be the reason why I was heavily opposed when I spoke about the importance of Local Church as a local body of Christ. Many posters here said a physical local gathering of believers cannot have that much spiritual significance. I am not here to argue who is right. But just telling how the Greek method of thinking is influencing the posters here.

I can add more to this Greek method of thinking in West. I find Christians from west taking submission to authority as so light. Submission to authority in Church, wife submitting to her husband in home, submitting to moderators in a Christian forum etc. Westerners find no or very less spiritual significance in such things.

RE : /// This made so much sense to me. For example when I talk about the need of continuous repentance, immediately I get accused that I believe in salvation by physical works. They do not see how a physical activity like repentance is closely coupled with a spiritual thing like salvation.///

Dear Sree,

The following that you wrote is what brought the response's in the other thread :

RE : /// "...If you sin and the Holy Spirit convicts you of your sins but you are unwilling to confess them, then are you on still on the way to salvation? What if you die in this unrepentant status?
My answer is no, I am not in the way of salvation if I harden my heart towards God, unwilling to repent from a sin that His Holy Spirit is convicting in me. The answer is backed by scripture,..."///

When We read the above it appears that you believe that :

depending on a Christians current repentance/confession status they are in a constant process of "falling away" from the path of salvation and must be constantly renewed to the path of salvation by asking for forgiveness. and if someone where to die in between the sin and before the asking of forgiveness :

you asked the logical question from that position :
/// What if you die in this unrepentant status?///

Please clear up if I am misunderstanding what you wrote ?

Hi PP, I should not have used the word accuse. I was wrong. My intention is not to point out any mistakes of those who disagreed with me. My intention was to show, how quickly they misunderstood me of stating work based salvation.

Regarding my stand on the need on repentance, I believe exactly as the scripture says, if we confess our sins then he cleanses us from all unrighteousness, both committed consciously and unconsciously (1 John 1:9). I we harden our hearts and do not repent from our sins, then there is no forgiveness of any of our sins, either past, present or future.

another example is head covering. In east it is not a problem to believe that this simple physical command has some spiritual meaning. But in west people struggle to see how something physical can be given as a command by God who is spiritual? I am NOT bringing the head covering discussion here but this simple difference between east and west thinking is making me realize the reason behind why westeners find it difficult to accept head covering. It is not the cultural difference, it is difference in the primary way of thinking and education. Greek influence.

I am sure many who have read this post will be wondering what is great about this thing that I am posting here. It actually clears so many things in my mind. As a poster from east, being in this forum for few years, having been involved in quite a few discussions, it all makes sense now. Many times I used to wonder why other posters here cannot see what I am seeing. It is because they see spiritual and physical as they see black and white. But I see it as gray, which is also a Biblical way. How can you prove something is gray when people can either see it as black or white?

https://archive.org/details/ParisReidhead-135SermonsPreachedByHim... Paris Reidhead traces the Greek thinking in the western world in particular. Very helpful to coming to an understanding on this subject. The message is: Sin, its nature and history audio # 174 [part 4] Also found in Sermon index. Eileen

the link doesn't seem to be working. You can search google and find this complete set of Reidheads sermons.

My research so far

RE : /// As a person from East, coming from Hindu Faith, I find it not contradicting at all. In Hindu Faith we do lot of physical worship and believe they all have spiritual significance. Hence this attribute of God to couple physical and spiritual is not a surprise to me. My mind is tuned to think that way. But people from west are not.///

The concept of Murti is far removed from Biblical Christianity , But not neccassarly removed from the ancient Greek thought which also was wholly given to idolatry (Acts 17)

The Greek Scuptural image was central to the Greek worship practice.

Greek thought did influence western christianity but not against idolatry but in favor of idolatry, That is why catholicism went against what the Bible teaches and embraced idol veneration.

As Bible Believers we see all of the above as Idols.

RE : /// I can add more to this Greek method of thinking in West. I find Christians from west taking submission to authority as so light. Submission to authority in Church, wife submitting to her husband in home, submitting to moderators in a Christian forum etc. Westerners find no or very less spiritual significance in such things.///

Hindu has a hierarchy system a caste system that divides Hindus into four main categories - Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and the Shudras

And just like the Hindu system Ancient Greek had a Social Hierarchy system
Athens ”“ The Upper Class
Metics ”“ The Middle Class:
Freedmen ”“ The Lower Class:
The Slaves.

The Greek thought did influence western christianity but not against the hierarchy system but towards it.

Praise God , Praise Jesus Christ , Thank you God for the Bible and that His ways are so far removed from the ways of the World !