Corrie Ten Boom Warns of the Dangers of Pretrib Teaching

Let each one be fully convinced in his own mind.

I don't think a unanimous consensus will be reached on this one. We need to encourage one another to prepare for Christ's return, spread the gospel and be found unspotted from this world for when He does return. Meanwhile tribulation, persecution and opposition is the norm for all those who desire to be godly and love His appearing.

Post Trib View SAINTS: "I don't want to believe in the pre-trib rapture because I need to stay sharp, focused and ready for whatever happens. I don't want to be caught off guard.

Pre Trib view SAINTS: "I believe in the rapture because it keeps me sharp, focused, ready for what's coming and I don't want to be caught off guard".

Hmm...

Is it possible to believe in the immanency of Christ's return and still have room in your theology for persecution, suffering, tribulation at the hands of men?

I do see your point brother Blaine. if the teaching on the Pre-Trib rapture offers people the idea that persecution and tribulation is reserved for the Great Tribulation ONLY and that Christians can hope to escape all of that in the rapture, then I agree this is an error to be avoided.

For Jesus Himself said: "Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me." John 15:20

"Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution." - 2 Timothy 3:12

However, I would say that not heeding the entirety of scripture is to blame on this one, and not the doctrine of the rapture itself. I don't find the doctrine of the rapture to promise escape from suffering, tribulation or persecution in general. it does however promise a blessed hope to escape the wrath of God poured out on the world during the Great Tribulation.

Those who come to the Lord during this time are in for major persecution and martyrdom, and the prayers from under the altar are for this very reason - "How Long O Lord!!"

God bless and keep His church and keep her faithful to the end.

Hi all,
Alot of times when their is a discussion about the tribulation Corrie Ten Boons name comes up as an anti Pre Trib voice but their are problems with that.
1.Taking her word for it is experential doctrine.
Also from Corrie's point of view the doctrine comes from her experiences not from the word of God which is the benchmark.
2.Again it assumes that sufferings and tribulations are the same thing as a specific period of time called the "The Great Tribulation".They are not and this arguement is just a red herring.Just because she did not escape tribulations has zero to with the Great Tribulation.
You could say if thats the case well Billy Graham has escaped tribulation therefore pre tribulation is correct.
3.How do you quantify destroying the Church?and who quantifies it.?
4.Also like any doctrine if the doctrine is not taught correctly it can have a bad outcome.For example if I taught a Post Trib teaching that said you have to keep earning your salvation that would have a devastating outcome.It doesnt mean Post Tribulation is incorrect but the teaching was incorrect.
Yours staff

Hi ThyKingcome
PreTribulation does not offer anybody the idea that persecution or tribulaton are reserved for the Great Tribulaton.
The logic of the post is totally faulty.
A.Pretribulation can be taught incorrectly therefore Pretribulation is incorrect.That logic is absurd.The same way that Post tribulation can be taught incorrectly therefore Post tribulation is incorrect is absurd.
B.Persecution and the Great Tribulation are totally different things.Just because you go throught persecution does not mean you go through the specific time called the "The Great Tribulation"
Billy Graham didnt die from persecution or was martyred for Christ doesnt mean that pre tribulation is correct,doesnt prove one thing ,the same way that Corrie Ten Boom was persecuted severely doesnt prove one thing except her love for Christ,Yours staff

.Persecution and the Great Tribulation are totally different things.

I hold the post trib view because that is what any honest person who reads the scriptures without any external influence will come up with. But I am not interested in debating on my view, because whether you believe in Post or Pre Trib, if we are not waiting for his return, we will not be considered.

But I am trying to understand from Pre Trib view people, how you say Great Tribulation and Persecution are 2 different things? I always saw great tribulation as a period of great Persecution. A time when Christians will be cornered by Anti Christ, who will become very evident. A persecution that will be worse than anything that has even happened to Christians.

Hi brother Sree,

I think the distinction that is needed between persecution and The Great Tribulation is that The Great Tribulation is a specific 7 year period of time preceding the return of Christ to the earth to establish His reign.

Persecution is something that has always existed as Jesus promised it would when men would persecute, oppose and even violently oppose and kill Christians for the Christian testimony and identity.

Examples of persecution include the martyring of Steven, the apostles, Nero, Bloody Mary and also less violent forms such as labor camps in North Korea (to name a few).

During the Great Tribulation there will also be an intense time of suffering for God's people and the antichrist will make war with the saints. So those who hold to the Pre-trib view are not saying that there will not be persecution during the Great Tribulation. Better stated, the Bible does not teach that Christians are exempt from persecution now or in the time of the Great Tribulation.

Persecution: Man's hatred towards God which is meted out in attack on Christians (ex: Martyrs)

God's Wrath: God's justice meted out on men for wickedness and rejecting Christ (ex: Sodom & Gomorrah, The Flood, 2nd half of Great Tribulation)

Is this helpful to you brother?

During the Great Tribulation there will also be an intense time of suffering for God's people and the antichrist will make war with the saints.

how is it any different from what I have posted? I also believe great tribulation is the time of great persecution. Yes I know Jesus spoke about a specific time period before his return, but it is persecution in a different magnitude.

So those who hold to the Pre-trib view are not saying that there will not be persecution during the Great Tribulation.
Better stated, the Bible does not teach that Christians are exempt from persecution now or in the time of the Great Tribulation.

If this is the Pre Trib view then how can Christians exist during the great tribulation if the Lord has taken them already during rapture? I thought pre trib view does not believe that Christians will be involved during great tribulation.
I

Brother,

The belief is that the church is taken out before the Great Tribulation, but then the 144,00 Jews that are sealed are sent into the world to preach the gospel, and there will be tribulation saints that come to the Lord (Jews and Gentiles) during this time. These are the ones spoken of being persecuted and martyred during the Great Tribulation.

Hope this helps brother. I know you didn't want to dig into this one but was just trying to help clarify so you have accurate information on what distinguishes the views.

Hi Bearmaster
What you are missing is =
Im not debating whether post or trib view is correct or not!I am saying the post and conclusions of the post are fundamentally flawed.We cant base our trib view on the word of Corrie but on the word of God.
Address the objections I have made ,urs staff

The belief is that the church is taken out before the Great Tribulation, but then the 144,00 Jews that are sealed are sent into the world to preach the gospel, and there will be tribulation saints that come to the Lord (Jews and Gentiles) during this time. These are the ones spoken of being persecuted and martyred during the Great Tribulation.

Thank you brother for explaining. Sounds very creative instead of scriptural! But is there a scriptural proof for this assumption that 144K are Jews and they will only (along with their converts) suffer persecution etc?

Brother Sree,

Revelation 7 talks about the sealed Jews and their ministry and also the tribulation saints that are martyred.

God bless you,

Revelation 7 talks about the sealed Jews and their ministry and also the tribulation saints that are martyred.

I do not agree that those are Jews. Jews have nothing special in New Covenant compared to a believing Gentile. Just because it is mentioned that from every tribe of Israel, it does not mean they are Jews. Many things in revelation are symbols. This number 144K and also the tribes are symbols. We cannot take straight forward meaning and form theologies.

Also revelation is not sequential occurrence of events. These are just scenes that John witnessed in heaven.

Dear bro Blaine,

I don't think you will find any verse in the Bible that says "Behold the doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation rapture" and then give a verse by verse account of it.

Here I think are some of the most convincing arguments for this view and why so many see it as scripturally valid and not just idealistic. All of these points have scriptures that can go along with them, but since I am not a theologian and am borrowing company time to throw this together, please forgive my brevity.

1.\tImmanency of Christ’s Return
2.\tGod’s Pattern of Removal Before Judgment
3.\tConspicuous absence of the Church in Revelation 4
4.\tJewish Marriage Customs and Imagery
5.\tDistinct descriptions of Christ’s coming Indicate Two separate Events

Immanency of Christ’s Return
The teaching to be ready for Jesus’ sudden return as a thief in the night doesn’t really go too well with Mid & Post views since it’s fair to assume that using Daniel’s prophetic timeline one could calculate His return using the signs in the prophecies themselves.

God’s Pattern of Removal Before Judgment

When God judged Sodom & Gomorrah, Sent the Flood and issued divine judgment for the purpose of inflicting punitive judgment for sin He removed those who were deemed righteous. Of course, the Egyptians were judged while the Israelites were in the land, but God’s intentions were different for sending the plagues. He wasn’t trying to destroy Egypt for their sin, He was demonstrating his authority to release His kids. Also, when the Hebrew young men were preserved in the furnace, this was not an act of judgment from God, but persecution from men (King Nebuchadnezzar).

Conspicuous absence of the Church in Revelation after chapter 4.

Once the church age is complete in chapter 3, you don’t see the church mentioned on the earth again. Instead, you do see worshiping hosts in heaven before the throne, which seem to indicate the church is in heaven at this point.

Jewish Marriage Customs and Imagery
Jesus comforted the disciples the night of His crucifixion with the promise to come again and take them to His Father’s house, that they would be with Him where He has been working. This language is in agreement with how Jewish marriages took place, even down to the specific details of preparing a house attached to the Father’s house, showing up unannounced for the bride. The parable of the 10 virgins lends to this imagery.

Distinct descriptions of Christ’s coming Indicate Two separate Events
The 2nd advent of Christ is so magnificent that it’s almost impossible to wrap our minds around it. I don’t recall the numbers but I remember hearing that there are 4 or 5 times more prophecies for His 2nd coming than His 1st. Not sure on the exact amount. What is significant is that when you read how it will pan out there seems to be two different events described.

1.\tAn appearing of Jesus that is sudden, unannounced and unexpected where He gathers His saints to Him in the clouds, upon which they and the righteous dead receive their resurrected bodies instantly and then return to heaven with Him.
2.\tA coming of Jesus that is calculated, prophetically precise to the day (1260 days after the abomination of desolation) where He comes with saints armed for war to destroy his adversaries and descends upon the mount of olives to establish His rule on the earth for 1000 years.

If the coming I just described is the only coming of Jesus, then why would there be talk of Him coming as a thief to snatch away when He is coming for war? And why would the 10 virgins be asking for entry with the bride when they could go visit Jesus on the earth in Jerusalem?

These are some of the views, distinctions, and arguments for the a Pre-tribulation rapture. This view is not without its weaknesses and does not solve all mysteries and answer all questions.

I am not tethered to a view, but to Scripture, and I do not have a flag on any one hill. I think this view makes the most sense mainly because of the Immanency factor alone, and also the distinction in the appearances of Christ. It’s not a hill that anyone should be dying on, since Jesus died on the only hill that really matters!! I think the best thing we can do with all this is stay sober, stay vigilant, memorize scripture, witness to the lost, stay in fellowship, keep ourselves un-spotted from this World and love His appearing. If we do this, we will doubtless be ready for whatever the Lord brings us to or through.

With His love,
-Kevin