End time teaching of Elijah in the last days

This is to Staff and to any other person who knows about this endtime teaching of Elijah in the last days. Staff has mentioned this several times in his posts and beliefs that we can’t even consider the end times unless we consider Elijah.

I’m not saying I’ve exhausted end times study but in the pre-trib camp, I didn’t hear about it, nor when I was in the middle trib camp for awhile did I ever hear of it and neither have I heard about it in post trib.

So I investigated this teaching just a bit. Several websites of this teaching are taught heavily in the Seventh Day Adventist and in Herbert W. Armstrong’s church, they even went so far to say that they thought Herbert was Elijah but of course, he died.

First, are you from either one of those of those churches? Second, I'm asking because I would like further understanding where this teaching is coming from; I read through a few thread from SI (posted below).

I’m just trying to figure out where you are coming from on this because unless two be agreed, they cannot walk together. Years ago, I was in a heavy discussion about a verse from Revelation and the other person’s sights were on the word, "it” and my sights were on the word "keep.” Well, of course we never came to an agreement!

by staff on thread, "A Prophetic Word from Dietrich Bonhoeffer” 2010

The problem with the post is that it doesnt take into account God's plan and protection for the end time Church.
I've said it before and I'l continue till it happens.The end time church comes under the Ministry and Spirit of Elijah.
All the church will come out of their denominational Churches and come under the protection of this ministry.
Deitrich Bonhoeffer did not know this so although most of his message is right he came to the wrong conclusion.
The end time Church will be a very confrontational Church it wont be the turn the other cheek doormat Church where we will stay in the way of every hit. The fight will be taken to the world by the Church, It will be a fight however and we will take hits.
Persecution will always be with us its a given sometimes more some times less but if we conclude the way Dietrich Bonhoeffer concludes we will preach Persecution not the Gospel of Christ and this is sad,
Yours Staff

by staff on thread, "The LAST OUTPOURING by David Wilkerson” 2011

But if you study the end times without taking into account Elijah story in Kings and Ahab being a type of the antichrist or the relationship between Elijah and 42mths then you will miss most of the timing. I suggest you read the account again with ahab being a type of antichrist and jezebel being a type of false relgion. For instance Ahab wanted the vineyard and Jezebel helped get it for him but ELijah stepped in would look totally different, staff

by staff, The of the remnant church in these last days.If you believe in a Jezebel, page 3

Church then you will also have to also believe in an Elijah Church. If you study the prophetic story around Jezebel the type of whore church, Ahab the type of Antichrist and Elijah then you will look at things differently. It shows that the Church of the end is huge, why that is so, it challenges and it is protected by God. You will see why it is so successful. Basically a study of the 3 characters mentioned tells you more of whats going to happen in the end than the whole book of revelation.!
This is why most people dont really understand whats going to happen, I challenge you to look again over the next few weeks at the passages in Kings and see what the Lord shows you

Nothing will be posted by me between the hours of 8:00 am and 6:30 pm, m-f because I am working and in the car. But I will reply.

Thank you, Lisa

Hi Lysa

I stand by all I have said on Elijah and the end times.
However I consider this comment as trying to associate me with Seventh Day Adventist which is incorrect and doesnt enlighten the discussion.
..........................................................
So I investigated this teaching just a bit. Several websites of this teaching are taught heavily in the Seventh Day Adventist and in Herbert W. Armstrong’s church, they even went so far to say that they thought Herbert was Elijah but of course, he died.
............................................................
I have nothing to do and have got no teaching from any Seventh day adventist sources.
urs staff
Edited:P.s I Edited this post because part of my original reply wasnt given in the right Spirit

Hi Lysa ,
In a way I am glad to give account of what I have studied if anyone is genuinely interested no problem.. and I am sure that you probably didnt intentionally try to associate me with Seventh Day Adventist Teachings on hindsight.
Before I get to any point Jacob Prasch a preacher who has a fair few sermons on sermonindex also believes in Elijah coming again in the last days and he is certainly not a seventh day adventist!
I whole heartedly stand by all of the posts you have stated.
Let me explain where the teaching is coming from
I just started reading the bible and like all Christians the Spirit started revealing passages.I checked and double checked were they scriptural and then I checked some more and I am 100% sure in my mind that what I am saying is correct.I began to look up preachers who preached on the subject.The only one that talked extensively was the above mentioned J Prasch.Their are many preachers who believe in a future Elijah but he is the only one with any kind of understanding in my opinion.
I felt led to study extensively on it and I am just saying what I have found.It is up to you and anyone else to be like the Berean and check for them selves.

Whether their is a future Elijah is not in doubt when you look at the two witnesses in Revelation.All most all preachers Post ,Mid or Pre think that one of the two witnesses is Elijah.Nothing new there and they are in the future last time I checked.

I challenge anyone to read the passage on Pentecost for instance.
Peter stands up and says we need to get the 11 Apostles back up to Twelve.The qualification is that the Apostle had to first be a disciple of John The Baptist(who is Elijah if you care to accept him) Dont you find that a bit strange?I did and I looked further.Note:Pentecost could not happen until the twelve apostles(stones)were restored.Where else are twelve stones and Elijah mentioned in the same breath?Where else are twelve stones restored?

I saw that John baptised Jesus and noticed most commentators said this was because Jesus was being humble and identifying himself with us.There is a measure of truth in it but only a measure.What stood out for me was that Jesus said "let it be so,so that all will be fullfilled" and I realized that John The Baptist was fullfilling his role as "Elijah".How?By pouring water over the sacrifice(Jesus)
I am sure everyone understands the teaching that John came as Elijah to make way for Jesus.You then have to ask how did John make way for Jesus.What did he do?Why was he like Elijah?
1:He had the same Spirit as Elijah(came in the spirit and power of Elijah)
2:Wore the same clothes,came in the wildnerness,baptised where Elijah was at the Jordon etc (he followed the exact pattern)
3Poured water over the sacrifice (Jesus)
4He restored 12 stones as Peter points out before Pentecost
just like Elijah did.
The list goes on and on like that...
I then noticed that John The Baptist in one way or another played out the role of Elijah from when he was in his mothers womb right up until Pentecost
I noticed that John The Baptist in his life time and beyond his own life did exactly what Elijah did on Mount Carmel.

The step to a future Elijah is simple in ways
Who are the two witnesses?and their is only one pattern to follow ...someone who is linked inextricably with 3 and 1/2 years and who has the same powers as the witnesses.Nothing new there either almost all preachers believe one of the witnesses is Elijah.Most commentators say Elijah and Enoch or Elijah and Moses but Elijah is always one.
The new thing I am saying is that the future Elijah follows the pattern of the past Elijah's except not pouring water on the sacrifice thats a two off event only(has been fullfilled once and for all).What else new am I saying ?That Mount Carmel is basically a prophesy of Pentecost.In essence one is a prophesy in type of the other,

Now its up to you to study the parrellels and pattern and I guess the one thing that is fustrating is that people are willing to accept the typology of the temple and the typology of inner court and outer court etc but wont except the clearer,simplier typology of Elijah coming before Jesus,
I genuinely hope this is helpful Lysa and im not putting out anything that cant be checked.I challenge anyone to make three columns 1:Elijah 2 John The Baptist 3 The Two Witnesses and see the parrellels and Pattern
urs staff
I checked one of Praschs Sermons is "One messiah,two comings" which may touch on the subject and he also did a Sermon "Elijah a man that could make it rain" and I remember it was more extensive but it isnt on SI.

Why would all or any of this matter to a church which you advocate will not be here for any of it because it will have been raptured before any of it occurs? If the church as you say cannot come close to understanding the end times without understanding this teaching on Elijah why should it matter if the church will not be here during the major events of the end? Under the pre-trib scenario, by the time the two witnesses appear the church will have been snatched away several years before they appear. If one of the two witnesses is Elijah why should it matter to a church that anticipates being gone? Why should the church be prepared to come under this Elijah ministry if the church is to be raptured during times of normalcy before Elijah appears again?

Who does God send Elijah to? Who is Elijah speaking to, who is he a profit to?

Malachi 4:4-6 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

All Israel. Not the Body of Christ His Church, His Bride, which is not Israel.

Israel is earthly which all the promises of God to Israel are earthly, protection, land, mercy on earth to Gods son Israel, His chosen people. The Body of Christ and all our promises are heavenly, The Fathers House, many mansions, seated on the throne with Christ, Where?

If Elijah is for the church, why not the 144,000 of the `12 tribes also?

In Christ: Phillip

Hi Greg
Jacob Prasch a preacher on SI believes more or less the same as I.
Its also worth noting that many false Messiahs came in before Jesus day and nothing came of them.
Was the teaching that A Messiah would come wrong Greg?no

Its also worth noting that the Devil trys to corrupt any teaching of God just like he did with the teaching of a coming Messiah before Jesus day.

Just because these groups or individuals went into err doesnt mean that the teaching is wrong.We have had err to do with almost every doctrine and you can rhyme of a list for any doctrine.

I think the most dissapointing aspect of your reply Greg is that instead of looking at the plain points I have made all valid all scriptural,instead of answering where you think the scripture doesnt add up you choose to take the above route.

I believe you should check scripture with scripture and if their is an err then show where it is ........

Also the two witnesses are just men should we not look and expect them to come?

So my advice is dont throw the baby out with the bath water until you have been like the Berean and check it all out,
Again Jacob Prasch a preacher on SI believes more or less the same as I,
urs staff

Hi Docs,
Let me answer your last question first

Why was anyone prepared to go out in the wilderness to see John The Baptist?Beacuse he came in the spirit and power.
The Church will be no different they will go out of their comfortable churches out to the wilderness because of power.
Thats where the power will be.

As to the Pre trib question.
The 7 years are made up of two halves and its only the second half which when the Judgement comes.The first half is a normal time in the sense of eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage etc

Again the two witnesses have been swept under the carpet because they dont fit into our views,

The Jewish typology didnt stop 2000 yrs ago the Jewish Typology continues to the End and even into Eternity.

Who else except for Daniel getting an explanation is associated with 3 /1/2 or times time and half a time or 1260 days?
urs staff

by staff
I have nothing to do and have got no teaching from any Seventh day adventist sources.
urs staff
Edited:P.s I Edited this post because part of my original reply wasnt given in the right Spirit

(edit) And I just didn't mention 7th day Adventist either, I mentioned the HA too.unedit

by staff
I genuinely hope this is helpful Lysa and im not putting out anything that cant be checked.I challenge anyone to make three columns 1:Elijah 2 John The Baptist 3 The Two Witnesses and see the parrellels and Pattern
urs staff

I think Christinyou has a point, the endtime reference for Elijah is in Malachi not in Revelation and it is primarily related regarding Israel who is up to now is waiting for their Messiah. They do not believe in Jesus but they will believe in someone else to their own peril.

Hi Philip

If you read the Pentecost verses(the so called Birthday of the Church)
you will see that Pentecost comes from John not Jesus.
Jesus is the sacrifice that made it happen.
John is the Elijah that rounded up the twelve stones and poured water over the sacrifice and then the fire fell like it did on Mt Carmel.
John is the man that preached that "The Messiah" was coming soon.
Unlike the false Messiahs and the False Elijahs mentioned by Greg earlier John as will any future Elijah point humbly to the Coming Messiah not to themselves.
We see that Peter's qualification for an Apostle is that like himself and the other 11 Apostles they had to have come under Johns Ministry.

Look at the similarities

Mt Carmel
A person with the Spirit of Elijah
Comes out of Nowhere
Wears A specific garment
Comes preaching in the wilderness
Causes drought for 3 1/2 years
12 Stones
Wood placed in Order
Water Poured over the sacrifice and the 12 stones
Fire Fell and consumed
Crosses the Jordan
Preaches/Ministers to a wicked King Ahab
Has a conflict with a wicked woman who wants his head

Time of Christ
A person with the Spirit of Elijah
Wears a specific garment
Comes preaching in the wilderness
Comes out of Nowhere(although we know the story of his birth)
Causes the Blessing for 3 1/2 years
3 1/2 Years is associated with him through Jesus Minstry
12 Stones the Apostles
A Cross made a specific way made of Wood
Water poured over Jesus the Sacrifice
Fire Fell on Pentecost immediately after the 12th stone is restored and had to have come from John or Elijah if you care to accept him
Baptised at the same place Elijah Crosses
Preaches/Minister to a wicked King
Has a conflict with a wicked woman who gets his head

Are these things coincidence?If so then all the temple typology is just coincidence!
If you want to know about what is going to happen then you have to find out what originally happened.

The future Spirit of Elijah whether it be just one man or the complete Church will follow the same pattern.

urs staff

by docs
Why would all or any of this matter to a church which you advocate will not be here for any of it because it will have been raptured before any of it occurs?

by staff
As to the Pre trib question.
The 7 years are made up of two halves and its only the second half which when the Judgement comes.The first half is a normal time in the sense of eating and drinking and marrying and giving in marriage etc

Staff,

I've read in other discussions where you stated that you were mid-trib. Again, not accusatory, just trying to make sense because what Docs said is true.

Also, I found the sermon you spoke of on youtube and will listen to it!! God bless

Hi Passerby,
I think I answered that point in Christinyou post.
Basically John is the very beginning of the Church and will be the very end of the Church as well.
It is clear that God has a plan for Israel and that only when things get totally desperate will they turn to him,
The prophesy in Malachi is for the great and terrible day of the Lord which are more than one day,
It is also clear that God has a plan for the Church and this plan started with a Pentecost that originated with John and where Jesus was the sacrifice.Jesus needed someone to make a way for him,someone to get the Jewish people expectant,someone who did some groundwork or someone to get the stage ready swept and clean and in order for the Main Performer Jesus
urs staff

Hi Greg
Repectfully I was only pointing out just because their is Error doesnt mean that the teaching is wrong it only means that the teaching has been corrupted by men or angels.

The fact that you believe that one of the two witnesses is Elijah and that he is coming in the future probably indicates to you that their is a future Elijah of the end times.
All I am explaining is what he does and why he is coming and why he is so important in the end.
I am explaining what I believe I have been shown through scripture and its up to everyone to look and examine it for yourselves
Again Elijah wont come and say look at me but will come and say look at Christ,a crucial difference between the false and the good,
urs staff

Hi Lysa
I view mid trib as pre trib and also Im not sure whether the Church will be raptured or just "kept safe" like in Noahs day,
I would if pushed come down on the side of the rapture because of the typology of Mt Carmel,Either way I dont believe we will come under Gods Judgements in fact i think we would just get in the way
urs staff

Jesus reply,

And they asked him, "Why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” And he said to them, "Elijah does come first to restore all things. And how is it written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt? But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him.”
Mark 9:11-13

And the disciples asked him, "Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” He answered, "Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.
Matthew 17:10-13

Hi Savannah,
NASB
9 As they were coming down from the mountain, He gave them orders not to relate to anyone what they had seen, [f]until the Son of Man rose from the dead. 10 They [g]seized upon [h]that statement, discussing with one another [i]what rising from the dead meant. 11 They asked Him, saying, "Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” 12 And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He will suffer many things and be treated with contempt? 13 But I say to you that Elijah has [j]indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him.”

What I take from that is this and I have looked at alot in the past
John is dead at this stage but Jesus says "Elijah Does Come"
My understanding is what he means is Elijah does come before the Messiah" and then explains John was the Elijah before the Messiah.
What it doesnt say is that Elijah or the Messiah are not coming again.
What it may be saying is that Elijah Does come in the future and we would have to know exactly what Elijah has to restore and see did John fullfill all of the restoration
I cant remember whether the "Does" is considered past present or future tense.I'l check again.Why did he not say did come straight out ,does answers the question as well granted but "did come" is the perfect answer as John was dead at the time.Every jot and tittle counts I believe.
When you take into account how Jewish prophesy is understood then it has a future fullfillment.
How they look at is one fullfillment,then another and so on with an ultimate fullfillment .The previous fullfillments tell something about the ultimate fullfillment.
urs staff