Romans 1:5

Came across the scripture today and I would like to get some thoughts from you all:5through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith among all the Gentiles for His name's sake, Rom 1:5 NASBBy whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: Rom 1:5 KJVThrough him we received both the generous gift of his life and the urgent task of passing it on to others who receive it by entering into obedient trust in Jesus. Rom 1:5 The MessageIt is through Him that we have received grace (God's unmerited favor) and [our] apostleship to promote obedience to the faith and make disciples for His name's sake among all the nations, Rom 1:5 Amplified Biblethrough whom we did receive grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, in behalf of his name Rom 1:5 YLTThrough him and for his name's sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith. Rom 1:5 NIVFrom the readings of all the above scriptures, do we obey Gods commands by faith?If it is by faith, faith in what?Can we conclude that if someone does not obey the teachings of scripture, they have little faith?Gill says the following:For obedience to the faith - That by this office, which I have received from God, and the power by which it is accompanied, I might proclaim the faith, the Gospel of Jesus; and show all nations the necessity of believing in it, in order to their salvation.If we pull this down into the state of the modern church generally, Could we get to the simple formula of little obedience=little faith?But from the readings of scripture does it not seem that we obey buy faith, or should I rather say we submit our earthly way of living and thinking by faith and is so doing we obey.Does anyone have any angles?

Rom. 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:How about "through whom we have received grace and apostleship to faith's obedience among the nations'? Are we talking about the "nations' obedience of faith" or the "apostle's obedience of faith"? Is this saying that as a result of God's gifting in grace and apostleship Paul had been enabled to 'trust and obey'?"thou shalt love the Lord thy God..." was a command but grace makes every command a delight and the phrase becomes a promise rather than a threat. Hebrew's speaks of the 'obedience of faith'. I think obedience is just a particular aspect of faith. “So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”(Heb. 3:19, KJVS) says they did not enter in because of 'unbelief' - apistia (no faith) while in the ASV the latter reference is “Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.” (Heb. 4:11, ASV) The KJV has 'unbelief' here too, but the word is different to Heb 3:19. In Heb 4:11 the word is apeitheia which means 'disobedience'.Using ZekeO's formula 'disobedience = unbelief'. and 'little obedience' = 'little faith'. When our children were small my wife would often say to them...'slow obedience is disobedience''partial obedience is disobedience'according to her lights 'little obedience = no faith'! A wise lady my wife; I mean, look at the husband she chose! ;-)

philologos wrote:A wise lady my wife; I mean, look at the husband she chose! So are you saying that before you were married you were'nt smart but through her smartness she made you smart or she married you for your brains as evidence of her smartness? This seems like a chicken and the egg syndrome. :-?

philologos wrote:"through whom we have received grace and apostleship to faith's obedience among the nations'? Are we talking about the "nations' obedience of faith" or the "apostle's obedience of faith"? Is this saying that as a result of God's gifting in grace and apostleship Paul had been enabled to 'trust and obey'?I think in the context of the scriptures it is the nations obedience that he is referring to.I think obedience is just a particular aspect of faith. Well, so you have faith so you obey or because you obey you have faith. In my mind the implications of those two positions takes us down two seprate roads. “So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.”(Heb. 3:19, KJVS) says they did not enter in because of 'unbelief' - apistia (no faith) Dragging this back in NT church life, could the problems in the present church be attributed to the fact that people have little faith?This brings another question, what are we supposed to have faith in or what are they suposed to obey, and what for?The KJV has 'unbelief' here too, but the word is different to Heb 3:19. In Heb 4:11 the word is apeitheia which means 'disobedience'. So are they tieing the two together as one thought, in other words faith and obedience are the same thing.

So are you saying that before you were married you were'nt smart but through her smartness she made you smart or she married you for your brains as evidence of her smartness? You're not a professional theologian are you? ;-) No, I'm not saying anything about 'my' smartness but simple commending my wife's good sense and judgment. :-D Neither did she choose me to prove a point... I always suspected she married me for my money. We've been together for 40 years now, and she is still looking for it! :-D

philologos wrote:You're not a professional theologian are you?No, but I put the blame squarely at your feet, see what you've done to me. 8-)

That's a good'n! "We've been together for 40 years now, and she is still looking for it!" 8-) Heaven is a great place to hide your gems and things of value.

what about the parable Jesus' spake of 2 sons, one said I will and didn't the other said I wont and later did, which of these 2 did the will of thier father? I believe many saints who have lost thier joy and victiory can quickly recover it by going back and doing the last thing they knew to do and didn't or if they did it half way to re-do and make a full completion of it. I supose grace and understanding would be equally as important here as faith and obedience.