jsissle
Jun 17, 2005
i was just wondering :-)my faith-life has became some kind of new as i've read his books "the blood covenant", "jesus the healer" and "the 2 kinds of faith"
i was just wondering :-)my faith-life has became some kind of new as i've read his books "the blood covenant", "jesus the healer" and "the 2 kinds of faith"
Essek William Kenyon (1867 - 1948) was an evangelist, pastor, president of a Bible Institute, author, songwriter and poet. He is best known for the numerous books that he authored that are still in great demand today. Kenyon’s writings dramatically unfold the glorious truths of the revelation given to the apostle Paul in simple, concise language. He wrote for the spirit man, addressing the heart more than the head.Understanding the Father-heart of God, who we are in Christ and the authority and privileges of the believer were central to Kenyon’s message. In his writings Kenyon calls the believer up and out of the mire of traditional unbelief into the deep, rich treasures of our redemption in Christ.----Essek William Kenyon, whose life and ministry were enormously impacted by such cults as Science of Mind, the Unity School of Christianity, Christian Science, and New Thought metaphysics, is the true father of the modern-day Faith movement. Many of the phrases popularized by present-day prosperity preachers, such as "What I confess, I possess," were originally coined by Kenyon. Kenneth Hagin, to whom we next turn our attention, plagiarized much of Kenyon's work, including the statement, "Every man who has been 'born again' is an Incarnation, and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an Incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."(E. W. Kenyon and the Twelve Apostles of Another Gospel, by Hank Hanegraaff)*****Personally I believe there is good and bad from the man, and I am sure one could gleam many good things but overall the "word faith movement" is not biblical and is an heresy of Chrisitan belief.I recommend you listen to:Another Gospel by David WilkersonandTen Shekels and a Shirt by Paris Reidhead
hmmm, have you ever read one of his books?just by the way:Hebrews 10:23Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
"What I confess, I possess,"even if some carnal people tried to abuse confession, its still important (dont you realize the way the enemy tried to steal something from the church?) but i mean its crystal clear that the confession must be on a solid biblical foundation and if you know the Lords voice, then it can be on the foundation of a rhema word too, but it still must be proofable with God's word.i recommend you to read derek prince's book "prayers and proclamations" - there he explains how to use God's Word in prayerthere is also a sermon from derek called "the power of proclamation" where he basically explains the same thingsbut many thanks for your recommendations - i know to proof is a musti'd also like to let somebody else speak who won thousands for Jesus ...http://www.kenyons.org/Testimonies.htm
you know brother, (or sister)this site is helping me to learn about all the various rubs and twitches, and doctrines, that fallen man tries to shroud the Glorious Savior Jesus Christ with. It's just grievous.Now I have another to add to the list, Kenyon.to say that Jesus died a spiritual death is just another in a long fetid line of lies forged in the anvils of hell, it's utterly disgusting, and blasphemous.agenda, agenda, masquarading as a question, "what do you think about..so and so".You don't want to know what I think. What I know is that God is merciful, and if you repent and seek Him, He will be faithful to that.Kenyon's heresy traces back to An ancient heretic named Nestorius taught that Jesus performed His works by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by virtue of being God the Son. The reaction of the early Church fathers was to damn any person teaching such things. Why? Because to believe this way is (1) take away from the deity of Christ, (2) left Christ as a person with two natures, one divine and the other human, which thus logically takes away His capacity as Savior. The Council of Constantinople in 553 A.D. stated "If anyone shall say that . . .His miracles. . . in the flesh were not of the same Person: let him be anathema.(8) In other words, people teaching these things and believing these things were put outside of the community of faith! Yet today these blasphemous concepts are espoused boldly and those who dare question them are cursed by the heretics who teach them!The "Jesus died spiritually" heresyplease turn from this damnable heresy.
thank you for the historical informations on Constantinople and Nestorius, but don't believe everything some people figure on the internet! do you really wanna know something else they forbid to teach by anathema? Salvation by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8)but on the actual topic, watch at this:Philippians 2:6-8 (Amplified Bible)Who, although being essentially one with God and in the form of God [[b]possessing the fullness of the attributes which make God God], did not [c]think this equality with God was a thing to be eagerly grasped [d]or retained, but stripped Himself [of all privileges and [e]rightful dignity], so as to assume the guise of a servant (slave), in that He became like men and was born a human being. And after He had appeared in human form, He abased and humbled Himself [still further] and carried His obedience to the extreme of death, even the death of the cross!and on the matter of spiritual deathdo you know what this means?it means to be seperated from Godand to prove this biblicallyMatthew 27:46 (King James Version)And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Neilgin1i did some research to proove the fact that Jesus performed His works by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by virtue of being God the SonActs 10:38"How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him."and behold Luke 3:21-23Jesus began his public ministry not before he was baptized with the holy spiritother than this check Philippians 2:6-8 (mentioned detailed in the post before)
I would recomend a book entitled "Another Gospel" by D.R. McConnell. He does an excellent job in researching the roots of Kenyon's heresies. Kenyon loved Jesus I'll readily admit, but he loved another Jesus, one of his own making. Kenyon's background was one of mixing the "new thought" mysticism of his day with Christianity.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey
Kenyon's Quote:Every man who has been 'born again' is an Incarnation, and Christianity is a miracle. The believer is as much an Incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth."Websters dictionary defines the word Incarnation this way:"That act of grace whereby Christ took our human nature into union with hisDivine Person, became man. Christ is both God and man. Human attributes andactions are predicated of him, and he of whom they are predicated is God. ADivine Person was united to a human nature (Acts 20:28; Rom. 8:32; 1 Cor. 2:8;Heb. 2:11-14; 1 Tim. 3:16; Gal. 4:4, etc.). The union is hypostatical, i.e., ispersonal; the two natures are not mixed or confounded, and it is perpetual."What is wrong with what Kenyon said?*though I agree with what Kenyon's quote, I do not readily agree with all his teachings, I am only commenting on the quote*John said, "As He is so are we also in this world".What is Jesus? Jesus is the Christ!Jesus said it this way to Nicodemus, John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."Now think about that for a moment, he is tell us that we who are born again, we are spirit. That is our identity, not Karl. Karl is born from the earth earthy, but my true identity is from Heaven. Does anyone understand my speech?We have lost sight of this goal, the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, and this is the goal that many seek, but cannot find, because their minds are dull of hearing what the Spirit is instructing them, because it goes against the grain, goes against what our Mom and Dad taught us.Our true identity is spirit. That's what this verse means, "The true worshippers are those who worship the Father in Spirit and in Truth". "There is a way that seemth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death"To be fundamental will produce "good" Adam's, but to be spiritually minded will produce Christ in us the hope of glory.Adam can never please God, "so they that are in Adam cannot please God", because "In Adam all die"Does anyone have ears to hear?WarmlyKarlI reject Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, and all the word of faith mess. Kenyon was off in some areas as was his apprentice Ken Hagin. I have a rare out of print book by Ken Hagin Sr. that says that Jesus Christ when He died on the cross became "Demon Possessed". I am not promoting these men's ideas. But Kenyon's quote at the beginning of this Post made spiritual sense to me and I wish that he had of stayed the course in other areas of his teachings.
jsissle,and on the matter of spiritual deathdo you know what this means?it means to be seperated from Godand to prove this biblicallyMatthew 27:46 (King James Version)And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?Actually Jesus was quoting the 22nd Psalm which if you read is quite the oposite. It ends like this:Psa 22:17-31 KJVR(17) I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.(18) They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.(19) But be not thou far from me, O LORD: O my strength, haste thee to help me.(20) Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.(21) Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.(22) I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.(23) Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.(24) For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.(25) My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.(26) The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live forever.(27) All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.(28) For the kingdom is the LORD's: and he is the governor among the nations.(29) All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.(30) A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.(31) They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this.Jesus' cry from the cross was not one of desparation from separation, but rather it was one of living trust and total victory!In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey
Jesus' cry from the cross was not one of desparation from separation, but rather it was one of living trust and total victory!wait, how can you say that?if you're realy saying what i'm seeing then you're saying Jesus was lying on the cross and God didn't realy forsake him???lets get way back.It's biblically logically that Jesus had to be forsaken by God because Jesus took all curses/punishments for doing something against the will of God upon himself (for us), which are among else (such as sickness, poverty, and many more) separation from God Isaiah 59:2But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear.Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering He has forever completely cleansed and perfected those who are consecrated and made holy.1 Corinthians 15:3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake He made Christ to be sin Who knew no sin, so that in and through Him we might become the righteousness of God.1 Peter 3:18For Christ died for sins once [a]for all, the Righteous for the unrighteous (the Just for the unjust, the Innocent for the guilty), that He might bring us to God. In His human body He was put to death, but He was made alive in the spirit (remember He was afterwards able to walk through closed doors, John 20:19+26) (gotcha :)(24) For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.now lets have a look at this ...Psalm 22 is a messianic Psalm, no question.But have you ever realized, that the Spirit of the Lord came upon the psalmists and then the psalmists were writing in the I-Perspective what happens to Jesus or what Jesus is seeing and so on but never in the He-Perspective, so you can't refer this one on Jesus ;-)
Jsissle, Have you listened to Kenneth Copeland's debate about the 'faith teaching' and how he came to balance with teaching on 'love'.The prosperity teaching is a false teaching in the last days. The secret is to never put the teaching of any 'man' above that of our Lord Jesus Christ.All we need for growing in the Lord is in the Scriptures and being taught by Holy Spirit.All the major cults have one thing in common. They follow the teachings of a 'man'. Who claims either to have a special prophetic teaching, or a revelation that you need to have to really understand the scriptures.These are dark times and many are being decieved.It is true that E. W. Kenyon, did shop out to Spiritism to liven up his teaching. These things are against sound doctrine and devestating to your spiritual man.This verse is just for you. (2 Cor. 11:3,4)In Jesus,Aeryck:-?
None of the verses you've given establishes that Jesus was separated from God. In fact they establish that WE are separated from God by sin, our sin, and Jesus is the perfect sacrifice for sin. He took the punishment of our sin by dying on the cross, thus the words "It is finished!".Jesus wasn't separated from the Father, instead He bridged the gap between us and God.My saying that Jesus had in mind the whole passage of the 22nd Psalm is more than acceptable considering 1st century uses of quotes. By quoting the first part of the 22nd Psalm Jesus had in mind the whole passage, not just the first part. John Wesley says in his commentary:Mat 27:46 - About the ninth hour, Jesus cried with a loud voice - Our Lord's great agony probably continued these three whole hours, at the conclusion of which be thus cried out, while he suffered from God himself what was unutterable. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? - Our Lord hereby at once expresses his trust in God, and a most distressing sense of his letting loose the powers of darkness upon him, withdrawing the comfortable discoveries of his presence, and filling his soul with a terrible sense of the wrath due to the sins which he was bearing. Psa_22:1.2Cor 5:21 does not carry with it the meaning that Jesus became "sin" but rather a better rendering of it would be that He became a "sin offering" As Albert Barnes says:2Co 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us - The Greek here is, ‘for him who knew no sin, he hath made sin, or a sin-offering for us.’ The design of this very important verse is, to urge the strongest possible reason for being reconciled to God.Now having said that, the suffering of Christ was indeed GREAT. Jesus said that this was the time of the power of darkness(Lk 22:53). Certainly the consolations of peace had left Him, but even in that time He could declare His trust in the darkest of hours to ever envelope the earth when mear men crucified the Lord of glory.The theory of suffering in Hell though is COMPLETELY unbiblical.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey
aeryck,we are neighter speaking about kenneth copeland nor about prosperitybut anyway2 Corinthians 8:9For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that you through his poverty might become rich.lolsee i come with the word,it's God very will that we have what we need, and even more2 Corinthians 9:8And God is able to make all grace come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need [b]be self-sufficient [possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation].We have also seen in the old testament, (David, Salomon) that prosperity is God's will,BUT (!) our hearts shall not belong to these things, and this is the very point to be praying about.
jsissle,If Paul had financial prosperity in mind in 2Cor 8:9 then he was most miserable among Christians. If Paul intended to say that prosperity is provided for in the atonement, he was offering the Corinthians something that he himself did not possess at the time. Indeed in 1Cor 4:11 Paul informed these same individuals that he was "hungry and thirsty," "poorly clothed," and "homeless." He also exhorted the Corinthians to be imitators of his life and teaching (1Cor.4:16).In 2Cor. 8:9 it seems clear that Paul was speaking about spiritual prosperity, not financial prosperity. This fits both the immediate context in 2Cor. and the broader context of Paul's other writings. For example, if financial prosperity was provided for in the atonement, one must wonder why Paul informed the Phillippian Christians that he had learned to be content even when going hungry(Phil. 4:11-12). One would think he would have instead claimed the prosperity in the atonement to meet his every need.Paul also wrote this to Timothy:1Ti 6:5-10 KJVR(5) Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.(6) But godliness with contentment is great gain.(7) For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out.(8) And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.(9) But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.(10) For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.It is true that God will supply us with all our needs, but according to His will and His plan, not by our childish demands:Jam 4:2-3 KJVR(2) Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.(3) Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey
We have also seen in the old testament, (David, Salomon) that prosperity is God's will,Try preaching that in the third world countries. The old covenant promises were temporal, earthly. But the new covenant promises are spiritual, heavenly. Belivers are not promised monetary riches(though some may be rich in that sense), but they are given something far more valuable. They are given the riches of grace here, and glory hereafter, the truths of the gospel, and robes of righteousness.Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: (Eph 1:3)No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. (Mat 6:24)Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days. (Jam 5:3)For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Luk 12:34)In Christ,Ron
Yo Jsissle,The first command is not to be prosperous, or to make your neighbour rich. Worshipping gold is something that man has struggled with throughout History. To view serving God as a way to riches is to completely misunderstand the teaching of Jesus.We are called to purchase a pearl of great price, we are bought with a price, we are running in a race for a prize.The prize, the pearl, the true richess is the Lord Jesus Christ.As the hippies might have said in a joke:'Hey dude you got the wrong idea about bread.'Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you. Priorities dude....the living bread which is before you now. Jesus said, "I am the bread of life"Bless God!Aeryck.8-) edit-add...interesting at the end of the life of one of the richest men who have ever lived he said these words:'Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man'
For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. (Luk 12:34)prosperity is God's will, BUT (!) our hearts shall not belong to these thingsi feel its such a problem that a lot of evangelic christians reduced the gospel in their lifes to spiritual thingsi believe we must believe that God is a good God who meets our needs and not one who likes to see his children suffering
aeryck,it is about God, it is about Love, it is about doing God's willbut money is important!how do you wanna serve thousands of people without any money and it seems like you're not even believing that God acts physically the needs are real, and so is God! (not only in your mind)
i feel its such a problem that a lot of evangelic christians reduced the gospel in their lifes to spiritual thingsDo we have "spiritual" things and "carnal" things? If so we need to rid ourselves of carnality.We should be a spiritual man and never carnal.I would say that many christians have reduced christianity to a shallow spirituality with more emphasis on temproral things. This is not a response to propserity preaching or Kenyon..
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