Did Moses See God?

“And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.” - Exodus 33:11If you remember the story of Moses, you will undoubtedly remember this conversation. It is one of my favorite conversations in the Bible – and has been the prayer of my heart since I first read it! Who would not want such an intimate friendship with the Lord – that the Lord would actually speak “face-to-face” with you? Others have been considered a “friend” of God’s, but none were written about so intimately as Moses.Now, you remember the situation. The Lord and Moses are having an intimate conversation concerning the people of Israel. Moses in turn, asked the Lord for understanding.”Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that this nation is thy people.”I think that nothing touches the heart of God as much as when people ask such a request. God knows our heart. He knows it inside out, including those deep things that we share with no one else. It is marvelous when we reach a point in our lives that we feel that nothing else satisfies – nothing else pleases – compared with the knowledge found in intimacy with the Lord. And God loves granting such gifts to those who honestly and earnestly seek them. Men with such intimate relationship with God no longer fear death (or life, for that matter). They realize and can rest in the ultimate truth of the Universe - God is with them, and is in control of all things.”And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest.What an awesome realization! God is with us – and gives us rest! This is so reflective of what Jesus said in Matthew 11:28-30: “Come unto me…and I will give you rest.” Moses demonstrates his reliance on God by further telling the Lord, “If thy presence go not with me, carry us not up hence.” And then, Moses asked the question.” And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.” Exodus 33:18What an incredible request for God! Moses had passed from the point of caring about himself, seeing his life as of no importance compared to the importance of knowing God. Moses might have even known that to see the face of God would be fatal. But he didn’t care! He was so hungry for such one-on-one intimacy with God, that he was willing to pass from this life to the next! Moses had already seen the burning bush. He had witnessed the incredible plagues poured upon the Egyptians. He had seen the pillar of fire and the cloud of God’s presence. But he wanted more! Moses wanted to see the actual face of the Lord. But the Lord’s answer was timeless:”And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy. And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live. And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock: And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.”The Lord made it clear to Moses that no one could see Him and live. It was as if He told Moses, “Moses, do you know what you are asking?” God told Moses, I will show you my back parts, but not my face. But when did this occur? This is the end of chapter 33 in the Book of Exodus. But these chapter breaks were not placed in the original text, and did not appear in the published Bible for several millennia. Chapter 34 actually begins where Chapter 33 left off. It begins with God’s instructions to Moses concerning the replaced tablets containing the Ten Commandments (since Moses broke the other). So, did Moses ever see God? And if so, did he ever see God face-to-face? I have an interesting theory, but I will have to wait until after work tonight to post it. Until then, does anyone else have an explanation? Thanks! :-)

I'm anxious to see what it is you have to write Bro. , I'll be out of town for a couple of days and will catch up when I get back. I'll leave you with this one scripturePsa 103:7 He made known his ways to Moses, his acts to the children of Israel. God Bless Bro. Daryl

Continued from an earlier post...The Bible details the continued story of Moses' life. We know (from Numbers 20:6-13) how Moses disobeyed God (by striking the rock a second time, which the New Testament refers to as a representation of Christ). Because of this, Moses was refused entrance into the Promised Land.But was God's promise to reveal Himself to Moses ever fufilled?Chapter 34 of Deuteronomy describes the death of Moses. This chapter tells how Moses, at the ripe old age of 120 years, climbed Mount Nebo. There, from atop the mountain, the Lord showed Moses the Promised Land. But after showing it, the Lord reminded Moses, "I have let you see it with your eyes, but you will not cross over into it" (verse 4). After that, the chapter explains that Moses the servant of the Lord died on this mountain. Moses was indeed an old man, but the Word tells us how Moses was quite youthful for his age:"And Moses was an hundred and twenty years old when he died: his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated." Deuteronomy 34:7In other words, Moses was still quite fit. His eyesight was good and he was still strong (I mean, he just climbed up a mountain!). Interestingly, the Bible states that it was actually the Lord who buried Moses -- without anyone knowing where his grave was located. The chapter concludes with a wonderful eulogy concerning Moses' relationship with the Lord:"And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face..." (verse 10)Again, the Word states that Moses knew the Lord face to face. But if Moses was so strong (enough to climb the mountain), and his strength had not departed, why did Moses die? And why was his body buried by God -- in an undisclosed location?The Epistle of Jude speaks of Moses' body. "Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee." (Jude verse 9)But why would the devil be so concerned with the lifeless body of Moses? Back in Exodus chapter 34, we learn that when Moses came down from the mountain (Sinai) holding the new tablets, his faced shined. In fact, Moses shone so much -- the people were afraid to approach him. Moses spoke to them, and then put a vail on his face. When he would go in to speak to the Lord, Moses would remove the vail. But when Moses would speak to the people, he would put the vail back on (verse 29-35). This is probably a result of Moses' encounter with the Lord. Moses was on the mountain, when the Lord fulfilled His promise to "show himself" to Moses. "And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped. Now remember, Moses' had only seen the "back parts" of the Lord (Exodus 33:23). If the back parts of God caused Moses to shine -- what would happen if Moses saw his face? Perhaps this actually did happen. Remember, Moses' body had not lost his strength, nor was his eyesight gone. Conceivably, it is possible that this happened when God visited with Moses on Mount Nebo and showed him the Promised Land. When Moses had finished viewing the Promised Land, perhaps God showed him something even greater -- His Face. While this is just a thought, perhaps this is the reason that Satan was so interested in fighting with Michael over the body of Moses. Imagine, if seeing the "back parts" of the Lord caused Moses to shine -- what would happen if he saw God's face? Of course, as the Lord told him, "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live" (Exodus 33:20). While this is just speculation, I am interested in the input of others. I started thinking about this in high school shortly after having given my life to the Lord. I always thought that if seeing the face of the Lord was instantly fatal -- then that was definitely the way I wanted to die! Anyway, I am interested in hearing others' thoughts about this. :-)

Dear Christopher,Exo 34:5 And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of the LORD. Exo 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Exo 34:7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.Moses saw what is written above. This is God's Glory and it also describes the name of the Lord. More importantly, it decribes Jesus.In Christ,GaryE

This may be way off. Don't trust me, trust God.I read that "no man hath seen God at any time."I think that this refers to God the Father. Therefore, to see the Father you must be outside of time (out of the body, like Paul or John, etc).I believe that people saw God the Son on earth throughout Scripture. In Daniel, on the Damascus Road, etc.So following my way of thinking, Moses could have seen Christ, or if he was out of the body (not in our physical state) he could have seen the Father. I think that Moses may have met face to face with Christ, and that would be one reason that Christ told the unbelieving Jews, "Moses wrote of me." Because Moses saw the Son.Feel free to blast this if you see Biblical faults (not because it contradicts a theology). I'm searching for truth whereever it leads.

Great comments. Thanks for your insight!

I believe that has been taken at a "too-literal" angle. What this means, "face to face" is the way you & I may speak. They SPOKE back & forth as you & I may speak. That is what is meant by "face to face". There is NO MAN that can survive after seeing the glory of the Masterful Creator of all things.Understand?

Halo,Do you think there is a possibility that Moses saw Christ, though?Remember that Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elias in Luke 9:30. If they could appear, certainly it seems Christ could.

Hello, TiltedHalo...!I think that was my point in my original two-part post. No man can see God and live. My post concerned the death of Moses. Is it possible that he died as a result of seeing the face of God?Things to consider...1. Moses was old...but had not lost either his strength or eyesight when he died. Remember, he had just climbed a mountain too. Deuteronomy 34:72. The Lord buried Moses, and kept the place of burial a secret. Deuteronomy 34:5-63. For some unknown reason, Satan and Michael fought over the body of Moses. Jude verse 94. It is mentioned twice that Moses knew the Lord "face-to-face." Exodus 33:11; Deuteronomy 34:10-125. Moses had requested of the Lord, "Show me your face." God told Moses that no one could see His face and live. He offered instead to show Moses his back. As a result, Moses' face was radiant like the sun.Is it possible that Moses, who climbed Mount Nebo in order to see the land of promise, could have died by seeing the face of God? It could explain the reason behind Moses' death, as well as the reasoning behind the secret burial of Moses' body and the ensuing struggle thereof. If Moses' face was radiant after seeing the "back parts" of God -- what would he look like if he had seen God face-to-face? Perhaps he was buried in secret (by the Lord) in order to prevent the Hebrews from deifying Moses or treating his body as a "holy" relic. Regardless, there is no way to know for certain. And of course, I am not trying to build a doctrine from this discussion. I just thought that this is an interesting topic to look into and study. Even though we are told that no man can see God and live, I still desire and pray to behold the face of God! And I have always thought that this would be a wonderful way to die. The last thing on earth that I would see would also be the first thing in eternity! I sometimes imagine that I will look at the face of God in Heaven -- and an eternity will pass away without ever desiring to look away!Now I am getting a little "homesick" for eternity.

Hi Dorcas...Good point! Thanks for the wonderful Scripture references. You're right in that II Corinthians 3:7 states that the "ministration" was glorious. This pertains to the "ministry," "service," or "giving" of the law of sin and death (or the "law that condemns"). Paul continues by stating that if the "ministration" of such a law that condemns is glorious (enough to make Moses' face shine), "shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" Why was it glorious? Because of the one who gave it. Verse 17 states that Moses' face "reflected" ("beholding as in glass") the Lord's glory. And remember, Jesus is the Word of God.But this is a wonderful portion of Scripture to show why a veil was faced over Moses' face. Verse 12 states that the veil was placed to prevent the Israelites from "stedfastly look" or "gaze" at the glow -- rather than the One who caused this glow. Perhaps this is the reason that the Lord buried Moses. This speaks volumes concerning those who look at what the Lord does (or is "accused" of doing) rather than to the Lord himself. Much of today's Pentecostal and Charasmatic movement points to the "manifestations" (or supposed "manifestations") of the work of Christ -- rather than to Christ alone. Often, we look to and await for the effects of the work of the Spirit rather than to Christ. Yet through Christ, this spiritual "veil" is removed from our hearts so that we can understand the truth of Christ. Thanks for pointing out such a wonderful passage! I will be studying this today!

This is an excerpt from 'Jesus of Nazareth -who is he?' by Arthur Wallis. References are from the English RV (very similar to the A(merican)SV)Every Jew knew from the sacred Hebrew Scriptures that man was not permitted to look upon God. “And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live.” (Ex. 33:20, ) The New Testament teaching is to the same effect: “No man hath seen God at any time;” (John 1:18a, ), “...dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see...” (1Tim. 6:16, ). In view of this it is necessary to inquire who was the one who appeared to Abram as “The God of glory” (Acts 7:2, )? To Hagar in the wilderness as "the angel of Jehovah", who testified “Thou art a God that seeth. For she said, Have I even here looked after him that seeth me?” (Gen. 16:13, ) To Jacob at Peniel who said “I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.” (Gen. 32:30, )? To Moses at the burning bush as "I am" so that he “hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.” (Ex. 3:6, )? To Joshua near Jericho as "captain of the host of Jehovah" so that he “fell on his face to the earth, and did worship” (Josh. 5:14, )? To Gideon under the oak in Ophrah, who is described now as "the angel of Jehovah" and now as “Jehovah” (Judg. 6:14, ) to Manoah and his wife, parents of Samson, who “they fell on their faces to the ground. And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God.” (Judg. 13:20,22, )These incidents of Old Testament history must evoke important questions in the minds of thinking people. It is clear that these godly people were overwhelmed with fear because they were convinced that they had seen God. They testified to their conviction, and Scripture endorses but does not explain their testimony. Some believed that they would die, and were surprised that they lived. Their relief when they were spared did not remove their conviction that they had seen God, nor did it remove their perplexity as to how it was they could see Him and live. If they did not truly see God why does Scripture imply that they did? If they did see God why did they not die according to Exodus 33:20? Why is the one who appeared to Gideon described one moment as the angel of Jehovah, and the next as Jehovah himself? Similarly, why do we find the aged patriarch Jacob equating God, on the one hand with the angel that redeemed him, on the other, when he blessed the sons of Joseph: “And he blessed Joseph, and said, The God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God who hath fed me all my life long unto this day, the angel who hath redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.” (Gen. 48:15-16, )? Why did this angel command Moses and Joshua to take their shoes from off their feet? Why did he receive worship, (Josh 5:14) whereas, when the apostle John fell down before the angel to worship him he was told, “See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus: worship God...” (Rev. 19:10, )The person of Jesus who is the Christ provides the only solution to this enigma of the seeming appearances of God in the Old Testament in the person of this mysterious angel of the covenant. He is was who, being “in the beginning with God” (John 1:2, ), shared his glory before the universe existed. (John 17:5) If this angel of Jehovah (or angel of the covenant) was God's Son, then one thing is clear: the manifestation of the Son is presented in the Old Testament Scriptures as a manifestation of God, and explains why in the New Testament Jesus declared “he that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:9, ). That this angel of Jehovah is also called Jehovah leads us to inquire whether the title Jehovah may not be applied to the Son as well as to the Father; this would account for the numerous passages in the Old Testament which speak of Jehovah, but when quoted in the New Testament are related directly to Christ; this would also explain such a verse as Mal. 3:1; “the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to his temple” (Mal. 3:1, ) - who could this be but Jehovah? But the prophet continues, "even the angel of the covenant whom ye delight in". (Mal 3:1) We thus concluded that though no mortal eye has gazed or can gaze on God the Father, yet in the person of his Son, who is the very image of his substance, men have truly seen God.

Are you disagreeing here with Paul, who said that Moses' face shone because of the glorious ministration of the law? (2 Corinthians 3:7 - 13)Your passage does not say that Moses' face shone 'because of' the glorious ministration of the law. The ministration of the law was 'glorious' but that is not why Moses' face shone. It shone because He had been in the presence of God. The glow on Moses' face was a fitting illustration of the 'passing glory of the law'. In Moses' face too it was from 'glory to glory' but with the 'brightness' decreasing. The glory of the New Covenant is that as we gaze upon the Lord, without a veil, there is a metamophosing into the same image 'from glory to glory'; this time the change is in increasing likeness and increasing glory. 'from glory to glory' with increasing 'brightness'.

Thank you, Philologos! Good stuff!