Battles in the mind | SermonIndex

sermonindex Jun 19, 2005

While I feel quite sure about starting this thread as I do, using a quote from Dian's post in another thread, I am aware of my own needs in this area of Christian life. Several scriptures crowd to mind, in which God makes clear our brains are not working on the same rational basis as His. I hope contributors will lay them out for us to chew on. Are our mental problems only because of the Fall and sin? Or, is there also an issue arising from His being the Potter and us the clay, in which we would never have a chance of understanding His mind, were it not for the Holy Ghost?Please testify about the contradictions to worldly thinking, including instances of answered prayer or the exercise of faith, which have defied all human explanation, as well as how reasonable you may have come to find it to believe. Because it is! 8-)Let's be practical and learn what we can from each other!'It has only been recent that I have been seeing who God really is. There has been so much of the spirit of the world in my so-called Christianity, so much mixture, it's like some surgeon performing a delicate surgery on the brain having to try and remove the cancer without harming the good tissue. That type of surgery is tedious and time consuming. I feel like this is where I am. I am continually recognizing thinking in me that is rotten. Then, it must be removed and replaced with truth and this takes time. Do other people just breeze right through this?'EDIT - To avoid confusion, the above quote was written by Spitfire. My reply is where it originally appeared on P1 in 'We seldom use all that Christ has already provided for us.' (Lounge)

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lastblast Jun 19, 2005

I am continually recognizing thinking in me that is rotten. Then, it must be removed and replaced with truth and this takes time. Do other people just breeze right through this?'Nope Dorcas, I think most of us do not "breeze right through".........it is a PAINFUL process---to see ourselves in the right light, to actually see the truth behind what motivates us and our own sinful thinking (which is based upon our disgusting/sinful self-justifying flesh). When I was typing this a picture came to mind-----one of a slave which is finally set free after years of bondage. What is the feeling of the slave? I'm sure for most there is joy unspeakable, yet, I'm sure there were other feelings as well: fear (of the unknown), fear (of change), fear (how will others look at me), fear (how will I survive this "free" life?).So I think the truth of the matter is that with freedom(Truth) comes all those things-----and the thing we can't escape when the Truth finds us is CHANGE........we cannot remain the same, in outward appearance as well as inward beliefs. But, but, but..........we do know this, when He makes us free (through the truth we are no longer under bondage---to sin, error, deceit)......it is HE who orders our steps and empowers us to get through the difficult times associated with freedom.........and we are surely blessed..... In Him, Cindy

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Spitfire Jun 19, 2005

Are our mental problems only because of the Fall and sin? Dorcas, I'm finding that many of my "mental problems" stem from having such a wrong concept of God. You know, satan's job is to discredit the character of God. He began right from the getgo by suggesting to Eve that God's motives and character could not be trusted. So...she partook of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. From this point on, mankind has had to deal with the spiritual death of eating and operating from that tree. I find myself everyday operating out of my own human reasoning in order to make my way through the maze of human existence on this planet. The sad thing is, God has provided a way for me to exit that matrix. His way is that we should not live according to the spirit of this world which is a slavedriver to things temporal. Love not the world, neither the things of the world. Love the Lord your God...you cannot serve two masters, either you will hate the one and love the other. I believe God wants us to let go of our earthly desires and live unto him and then so much of the anxiety of life will disappear.When I am striving for earthly things like money and security, I become anxious, so I have to find ways to comfort myself, which for me, oftentimes has been daydreaming, fantisizing, looking at God like he's some kind of sugar daddy who wouldn't think of letting his little girl hit rough waters. How foolish! Now that I know the truth, I've had to deal with the reality that my christian walk may actually carry me into martyrdom, and at least suffering and pain. And how to find joy in that?! I've tried to have the best of both worlds, and it has definetely made me unstable as the scripture says, "a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways."I know I'm gaining strength to run the race that is set before me. Through the truth of God's word, my mind is being renewed and I know that, before long, I'll be rooted and grounded and able to prove what that good and acceptable and perfect will of God is for me. Love, Dian.

C

Compton Jun 20, 2005

Are our mental problems only because of the Fall and sin? I'm finding that many of my "mental problems" stem from having such a wrong concept of God.Do other people just breeze right through this?'I think most of us do not "breeze right through".........it is a PAINFUL process---to see ourselves in the right light, to actually see the truth behind what motivates us and our own sinful thinking (which is based upon our disgusting/sinful self-justifying flesh). This is how I feel often. I think this question of mental health and it's link to a "correct concept" of God is a good topic to be honest with. Would I be wrong in observing that there is an unspoken assumption that sanctification and mental health are linked? More then once I have even heard that "inner healing" is just another expression for sanctification.The element that I would like to contribute to this thread, as we commit to being truthful about our disgustingness is compassio. (with-suffering) I don't think we should let holiness theology become the theology of cynicism towards humanity. This is understandable, since the heart, where reasoning is said to take place...is deceitful and not to be trusted. How often do we allow our hearts to deceive us regarding our own humanity...that somehow being set free from sin means that we are now "unfallen." Any notion linking mental health to a correct cognitive aproach to God falls apart in the face of a single mentally handicapped child. (I do not say this preaching...just pointing out.)I'm not sure if this precious topic was started with mentally handicapped people in mind. ...but any picture that attempts to link sanctification and mental health should be able to include them. The few handicapped children I I personally know have shown me something about holiness....and myself for that matter. :roll: Last month, two different Christian friends of mine went into the hospital under mental exaction or nervous breakdowns. Neither of these mature Christians knows each other...but they had very healthy concepts of God. Furthermore they were faithful to their families and their churches. Yesterday they were pillars...today everything is uncertain for them and their families. Though we may have correct concepts of God, we are still fallen creatures.Martin Luther comes to mind...a popular idea of Luther is that once he discovered "Justification by Faith" all of his mental torments were vanquished. I don't think this is true...His theology was never rationalistic or systematic. He never looked for the certainty of concepts as much as he looked for consolation in Christ. I believe Luther was talking about all the correct concepts he ever had about God when he penned his very last written words.We are beggars, that's true. MC

sermonindex Jun 20, 2005

I think this question of mental health is a good topic to be honest with. Would I be wrong in observing that there is an unspoken assumption that sanctification and mental health are linked? More then once I have even heard that "inner healing" is just another expression for sanctification.I have never heard this put into words. Is it? Personally, I don't think so, although I can see that at times they may be close. I don't think the terms are interchangeable.The element that I would like to contribute to this thread, as we commit to being truthful about our disgustingness is compassio. (with-suffering) I have a hard time with words like 'disgustingness'. I think I've been there, but, to continue to think 'I am disgusting' kinda militates against Jesus thinking I'm worth dying for. I've worked hard to come round to His way of thinking on this and to be willing to get my skeletons out of the cupboard as fast as I am able, to have Him deal with them however. Some of this has required deeply cleansing repentance. Some other has required deeply soul-knitting physical and emotional healing. I'm still opening cupboard doors, as yet - with Him present every time.We should be careful not to let holiness theology become the theology of cynicism towards humanity.I need help here; 'holiness theology' and 'cynicism towards humanity'? Please could someone define the former for me and the latter will probably make sense? Thank you, anyone.Yesterday they were pillars...today everything is uncertain God is able to meet each of them in their own personal darkness. Healing is definitely possible, but it takes time. However, it is worth holding out for. The big temptation of those 'outside' is to offer to supply help that is not being asked for, or, not to supply the help (if any) which is being asked for. Either way, outsiders are spared from truly engaging. At times, this is better than not being content to 'be' and continually trying to 'do'. I'm not sure if I should apologise for sounding pompous. Things my own need for 'inner healing' have taught me are, one is long on desperation, short on patience and, generally unsociable while the work gets done!

C

Compton Jun 20, 2005

I have never heard this put into words. Is it? Personally, I don't think so, although I can see that at times they may be close. I don't think the terms are interchangeable.I've heard a pastor try to explain "inner healing" by saying it just a new word for sanctification. I know that is not the heartbeat of most of the folks here. The reasoning put forth is that once your mind is cleansed your will not only have a right concept of God, but of yourself as well. The connection (faulty in my view) between sanctification and mental health may not be popularly recognized, but I believe it is latent in many ways we talk about "cleansing repentance," or "correct concepts of God."I have a hard time with words like 'disgustingness'. I think I've been there, but, to continue to think 'I am disgusting' kinda militates against Jesus thinking I'm worth dying for.Bless you! :-) I need help here; 'holiness theology' and 'cynicism towards humanity'? Please could someone define the former for me and the latter will probably make sense? Thank you, anyone.Well, I tried to create a broad term to include various theological attitudes on personal holiness. Perhaps too broad...I don't know. My purpose was to make sure that the mental problems we experience are real and not the results of inhuman expectations. I was meaning that particular school of theology that seems to assert sinless human perfection is the pentacostal birthright of every true Christian. I wasn't so worried about discussing that birthright per se as much as how this perspective, can leave one with a cynicism that wants to reveal sin more then reveal Jesus. I did not mean that as a critique of holiness theology...just an observation of it's misuses. If you haven't seen this shortcoming of traditional holiness doctrine then you are fortunate. God is able to meet each of them in their own personal darkness. Healing is definitely possible, but it takes time.I'm not sure that we aren't right back at the top of this post. I think "Healing", as is associated with "inner healing", is a concept that touches on mental/emotional health concepts while perhaps also touching many traditional Christian doctrines including assurance, and sanctification.What do you think? Perhaps, a firm definition of the term could be helpful in this thread.MC

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dohzman Jun 20, 2005

2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh: 2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to avenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled. Sometimes it would serve us well if we would slow down and consider what it is that we'er experiencing, feeling, thinking,whatever and ask , does this or that line up with scripture. Then simply bring that---whatever it is ---captive and worship God with obedience to His Written Word.

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Spitfire Jun 20, 2005

Neither of these mature Christians knows each other...but they had very healthy concepts of God. I'm just gonna be honest here and say how I really think having been someone who crashed and burned about 10 years ago. You are not a mature Christian if you are having a "nervous breakdown". You may think you are. Others may think you are, but the facts are now telling the truth. This flies in the face of everything in the word of God. If we can't have stability and peace in the face of every circumstance, then what is our hope? What is our testimony to the world who is having a nervous breakdown?You know how people will say, "If God would send people to hell who haven't heard the gospel, then he isn't just."? To me, they are defining God by their own human reasoning. To say I'm a mature Christian in spite of the fact that I'm falling apart emotionally, is to define "mature Christian" by my own human reasoning. A mature Christian is defined by God. This is one of my most favorite writings by Oswald Chambers:"God has ventured all in Jesus Christ to save us, now He wants us to venture our all in abandoned confidence in Him. There are spots where that faith has not worked in us as yet, places untouched by the life of God. There were none of those spots in Jesus Christ's life, and there are to be none in ours. "This is life eternal, that they might know Thee." The real meaning of eternal life is a life that can face anything it has to face without wavering. If we take this view, life becomes one great romance, a glorious opportunity for seeing marvelous things all the time. God is disciplining us to get us into this central place of power."A mature Christian is someone who is abandoned to the will of God. It's someone who is dead, nevertheless he lives, yet not he, but Christ lives in him. A dead person doesn't have a nervous breakdown. Love, Dian.

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Compton Jun 20, 2005

I'm just gonna be honest here and say how I really think having been someone who crashed and burned about 10 years ago. You are not a mature Christian if you are having a "nervous breakdown"...What is our testimony to the world who is having a nervous breakdown?Dian,First off I appreciate your honesty here. We can readily agree that there is a relationship between stability and faith. We are given His peace, not as the world gives, but as only He can give.Nevertheless, the fact of the matter is that the people I was talking about were mature Christians. One of them, a woman in her early 70's has demonstrated most of her life the peace and love of God, the faithfulness to the Word, and the daily dying to self that today's religion knows little of. Only the Lord knows the secrets of our souls, but for us to say that her nervous breakdown proves her immaturity is problematic and perhaps even contributive to her problem. Now if we say that only mentally stable Christians are proven to be mature then what do we say for those in ministry that are burned out...crushed by the needs of those less mature Christians in their care? Do the less developed believers, conclude that their pastors were afterall...immature? What do we say about those unbelievers who never experience mental breakdowns?The crisis you experienced ten years ago gives you special insight to this issue. Yet, as I read your testimony of it's cause, I am tempted to think that the reason I have never experienced similar problems, is because I must be spiritually mature! :eek: Even if God views us as mature, mature Christians can have crisis'. The Lord may find, even in the most stable of us, one more area to touch...to apply pressure to the clay. Isn't the mind part physical? Can't our physical state fail, even though the Spirit in us will not? Again, I'm not wanting to say there is no benifit from taking every thought captive, needlessly carrying our own burdens without prayer and trust. There is great benifit! I'm just wondering if we are more fragile then we care to admit.What a friend we have in JesusAll our Sins and griefs to bear!What a privilige to carryEverything to God in prayer!Oh, what peace we often forfeitOh, what needless pain we bear –All because we do not carryEverything to God in prayer!MC

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Agent001 Jun 20, 2005

On the issue of mental/nervous breakdowns (and many other physical and mental weaknesses) in Christians (young or mature), T. Austin-Sparks said, First of all we must refer to that very real and painful experience into which many—even of God's children—pass by reason of physical and mental injury. There is the 'nervous breakdown', and there is neurasthenia; there is anaemia, and blood-pressure. Not invariably, but more often than not, these maladies are made an occasion for the enemy to make cruel assaults. There is the terrific sense of—is it too strong to say?—devilishness within. The most wicked person alive could not be more wicked than such sufferers feel and believe themselves to be at times. Not only do they feel this, but at times they speak and act out of harmony with a truly Christlike disposition. Then, with one of these maladies at least, there is an extra factor; it is that of secondary personality—the sense of another presence as being in the immediate offing. We need not enlarge upon this. Many, sadly enough, know all about it; and if any who read this have no experience of this kind or with such sufferers, let them thank God, but not pass hasty judgment. Then what of that fact, which it is not pleasant to mention, but has to be recognized—the drive to self-destruction, which, alas, has not always been overcome? We cannot say with truth that these are conditions which lie outside of the experience of true children of God. We have known the most godly and saintly to suffer thus. Even mature Christians are not immune to such problems, just as Christians are not immune to any other kind of illnesses. It is a well-known fact that Charles H. Spurgeon for a long time was given to bouts with depression. Hannah Whitall Smith, who wrote A Christian's Secret to a Happy Life, did not live a happy one because of harsh conditions in life. Evans Roberts (husband of Jessie Penn-Lewis), well known for his role in the Welch Revival, suffered from a nervous breakdown after the Revival. I say this not to pass judgment, but in thanksgiving, because God uses these saints, as broken as they seem at times, to richly minister to us. As Spurgeon himself said, "The strong are not always vigorous, the wise not always ready, the brave not always courageous, and the joyous not always happy." Might I add that the great prophet Elijah, after his spectacular showdown with the prophets of Baal, experienced what seem to be symptoms of depression or breakdown almost immediately afterward. He was in extreme fear when Jezebel threatened to kill him, escaped, and eventually even sought to die. (But of course, God turned him around and gave him new insight through his 'still, small voice'.)I believe in the power of the gospel and of our Lord, but I also understand that the full manifestation of the life of Christ in us will not happen until we see him face to face. Today, we are also prone to weaknesses and frailties, and I think more compassion should be exercised when we find Christians, yes, even the ones we look up to, in such conditions. If we do not humbly and properly see the vulnerability in our humanity, it will be very easy for us to become disillusioned.

sermonindex Jun 20, 2005

A mature Christian is someone who is abandoned to the will of God. It's someone who is dead, nevertheless he lives, yet not he, but Christ lives in him. A dead person doesn't have a nervous breakdownAre you saying then that nothing that happens to a mature Christian will ever sway them and that all mature Christian's will sail through the rest of this life without anything affecting them? Don't get me wrong I do believe that it is possible to remain Christ so that these things can be avoidable but it is not what I have seen in some of the mature christian's that I know and they definately are mature Christians. I have also believe the most 'immature Christians' can get through all sorts of crisis and remain at peace and unswayed the same as a mature Christian. Surely it comes down to remaining in Him. I guess you should be much better at this if you are a mature Christian but it doesn't mean that it is inevitable. Surely mature and immature Christian's alike have the same ability in Christ to get through all sorts of things. I also think some mature Christian's may be in some ways more vunerable as they could become complacent about their stability.

D

dohzman Jun 20, 2005

Who was it that said God can't use anyone greatly that He hasn't hurt deeply. Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgression, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed/Heb 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. John the baptisers ministry lasted only 3-9 months and yet Jesus said there was none greater born of woman, YET the lest in the Kingdom......ect Much of what we go through prepares us for a time ahead when Jesus will approach us and say "friend" I have need of you.

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Spitfire Jun 20, 2005

I suppose a good definition of "nervous breakdown" is needed here. You asked:Are you saying then that nothing that happens to a mature Christian will ever sway them and that all mature Christian's will sail through the rest of this life without anything affecting them?No, I'm not saying that, but I thought a nervous breakdown is when someone so looses control of themselves emotionally that they can't regain their composure without medical intervention. As someone who is very emotional, I used to spend weeks and months, even years in depression and despair. Then, when a crisis occurred, I would become hysterical. Now, the truth within me draws me back from the edge of that cliff. Just today, a friend of mine said, "what used to take me days, weeks, months to regain my composure, now only takes minutes because I know the Truth." What is that truth? Jesus Christ. I know that I will never succomb to that insanity again because there's an anchor in my soul. That's not to say that I don't have moments of despair, but it never lasts. I wake up every morning with a fresh new breath. It's like the truth in me is blowing like a breeze. Hallelujah! What a relief! How can we lose hope for very long when we have a God who has come for us? See, I have come to believe in divine election because of my own experience. I know that I could never have been healed if God hadn't worked a miracle. I know I'm chosen and not because of anything in me. Knowing I'm chosen has given me an assurance about making it because I know that God is the initiator of everything about my life. I don't lose hope anymore, because my hope is not dependent upon me. I know I'm going to make it, because God is seeing to it. I have this assurance that I've been God's since before I entered my mother's womb and it was God's choice, not mine. So now, nothing that happens to me in this life can shake me loose from that hope. Nothing. Love, Dian.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2005

The reasoning put forth is that once your mind is cleansed your will not only have a right concept of God, but of yourself as well. Ah! But, there is a big gap between what has been accomplished in the Spirit through the blood of the eternal sacrifice, and our experience of 'knowing' the effect of the eternal sacrifice in our minds and in our bodies in a steady and slow-burn crescendo to which we can honestly attest with our daily consciousness. It is this gap which must be addressed with ardent candour, if we are to enjoy the salvation for which we have believed.Well, I tried to create a broad term to include various theological attitudes on personal holiness. Perhaps too broad...I don't know. OK. I see now, thanks.My purpose was to make sure that the mental problems we experience are real and not the results of inhuman expectations.Realistically, one must deal with the reasons for mental problems differently according to their cause and give as much acknowledgement to the mental problem(s) it(them)self, if any are to be brought to the Lord in prayer meaningfully, either with, or without, the sufferer.I was meaning that particular school of theology that seems to assert sinless human perfection is the pentacostal birthright of every true Christian....If you haven't seen this shortcoming of traditional holiness doctrine then you are fortunate.I think I have - been deeply affected by this, too.I wasn't so worried about discussing that birthright per se as much as how this perspective, can leave one with a cynicism that wants to reveal sin more then reveal Jesus. I did not mean that as a critique of holiness theology...just an observation of it's misuses. I'm not sure if I know what you mean here. Isn't it the revelation of Jesus which gives the necessary contrast with sin?I think "Healing", as is associated with "inner healing", is a concept that touches on mental/emotional health concepts while perhaps also touching many traditional Christian doctrines including assurance, and sanctification.What do you think? Perhaps, a firm definition of the term could be helpful in this thread.I hope others will offer their thoughts on this question, too. Here are mine in very short form.Matt 4:23 ends with the words 'and He healed them'. These were Jews. There is an overwhelming link, in the Old Testament, with the blessings of health and the keeping of the Law. There is an overwhelming link between sickness - ill health of all kinds, including madness - with sin. If you are not sure, this is something to keep an eye open for as you read scripture. It is worth a study on its own but I'm not going to lay mine out here. (I started a thread 'Healing - who 'gets' it?' which I will bring to the top, where those who are interested can do a fuller Bible study on 'healing', perhaps?)When Jesus healed people, usually, He was overcome with compassion for their condition. He also recognised they were 'sick' and the last thing they needed was a 'hard sell' about the gospel, or, any pre-conditions before He would act mercifully towards them. Obviously, they were sick because they had sinned. This seems clear from the connection Jesus makes between forgiveness and healing AND His teaching on the way we are to approach a 'brother' with repentance if we believe they have reason to have something against us (and other thoughts on this line, that we should take the responsibility if we have harmed someone else). But, I am specifically, now, in the New Covenant dispensation NOT saying that all your (my)sickness is because of your (my) sin.It is oversimplistic to say all sickness is because of sin and therefore we don't need to understand how people go under, or, how to help them get up again... they just have to deal with their sin, forgive anyone who harmed them and hey presto! whole now! I don't think so. That was the whole point of quoting Spitfire's testimony, at the end of the opening post.So, 'healing' is a general term for the action of God to bring a person to full health, however long or miraculously short it takes in milliseconds.'inner healing' is a term I use to define what I am experiencing these days, as I am being healed from the top of my head to way below my neck, as a result of my needs being attended by the Lord Himself, in the spiritual, emotional, physical and psychological realms, simultaneously as they are interlinked, but, with the same sort of pin-point precision as Dian shared in her description. To explain further, I think I should start another post...

C

Compton Jun 21, 2005

I suppose a good definition of "nervous breakdown" is needed here:This is a good question. I'm not sure if it's even a "technical" term...just a catch-all that could mean a number of things. Some people may not accept these as "real" but they might include anxiety attacks and disorders, bipolar disorder, post-traumatic disorders, post-partum depression and even good old fashioned depression. I don't know to much about any of these things except that they demonstrate how vunerable our minds are. What you shared reminded me of something that I recently heard from Michael Card. He observed that for Peter who stepped out of the boat, sinking in the water was more important for him then walking on the water. Jesus came to him. Perhaps all these teachers who write books on water-walking techniques missed the point of that scripture...Today, we are also prone to weaknesses and frailties, and I think more compassion should be exercised when we find Christians, yes, even the ones we look up to, in such conditions. If we do not humbly and properly see the vulnerability in our humanity, it will be very easy for us to become disillusioned.Agent, you speak so little and say so much.Who was it that said God can't use anyone greatly that He hasn't hurt deeply.Reminds me of another quote from someone I can't place,"How else can God enter our hearts unless they are broken?"I also think some mature Christian's may be in some ways more vunerable as they could become complacent about their stability.You don't sound clueless, Clueless. ;-)

C

Compton Jun 21, 2005

Thanks Dorcas for your detailed response. I'm not sure if I know what you mean here. Isn't it the revelation of Jesus which gives the necessary contrast with sin?Yes. Without overstating the point, consider a railroad engine and a caboose. If we think we can steer the train from the caboose, we might experience some mental strain! That is how I hear some holiness preaching. (Which is not to say that the preachers intentions were such...)Now I'm not trying to critique holiness preaching! My earliest comments in this thread were to point out and question the unspoken assumptions linking mental health with sanctification. MC

sermonindex Jun 21, 2005

Proverbs 1814 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear? When I found this verse above, it illuminated my condition to my understanding, but it didn't 'cure' me.Isaiah 520 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!{call...: Heb. say concerning evil, It is good, etc} 21 Woe unto [them that are] wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight! 22 Woe unto [them that are] mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink: 23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him! When I found this passage in Isaiah, I knew how my spirit had been wounded.In fact, as soon as I could therafter (the following day) I sought prayer with anointing oil for healing and the Lord scooped me back into one place and restored to me a sense of being which I could not remember ever having had; but, I have continued to need many, many more instances of specific and detailed 'inner healing' to bind up my inner being. I have to testify too, that this (above) came after another remarkable insight to my state, in which I perceived my inner 'man' had been 'strengthened with might' (Eph 3) much in the way resurrection means something like 'pushed up together' - a counteraction to the dislocation experienced in spiritual extremity. Then, I was able to percieve I had been smashed to smithereens.Both of the above events were HUGE. The first one (described second) was accompanied by the release of an enormous amount of inner pain with much crying and wailing, and the second, again with much crying, but of a different sort. The second time I knew God was going to move to prevent me from spacing out altogether, which was otherwise imminent.I cannot emphasise enough how overwhelming the events which led to those two specific days, or, the toll which they took on the day, or, how little use I was for any other thing, than simply living through 'being healed'. It would be nonsense to suggest these profound events can be 'taken in one's stride' when they have been left to become such enormous milestones in the reconstruction of a life. I'm not certain that the way I have come to it, is really what God desires, but, I have found Him ready to meet me when I'm ready to meet Him. And, He has been very uncritical of many other aspects of my life which outwardly meet no recognisable Christian standard at all, honestly.At no time (above) did I take medication or receive medical support. The Lord did this for me, all by Himself, with minimal support from different Christians who were all virtual strangers to me, and who did not know each other.Above are two aspects of 'inner healing' I can share. Much I cannot share. Others will have other causes of needing 'inner healing'. As I think about this, it is very difficult to separate the spiritual from the physical needs which 'cry out for', or, results of 'receiving' healing. My definition includes bio-chemical changes, as well as a coming to 'see' truth about how I got to need healing (my sin and harm from others) and then the experience of God's power to transform my experience of how I 'am' - when I come into His presence with these needs - to how I am after He has 'touched' (sometimes an act of receiving by faith, sometimes a definite physical experience) what HE knows is the pivotal point on which this 'moment' of healing 'turns'.I feel I've said enough except this... I believe there is not nearly enough emphasis put on healing of every sort, within the Church, for Christians and non-Christians, and for this reason, the Church is weak. It lacks a serious part of its legitimate testimony to the world and Christians are made to suspect they are not even Christians, for such needs as I've described, although I should state clearly here, mine are mine and yours are yours. In fact, they have been Christians for this long or that long and been expected to make ends meet for years, never hearing certain parts of scripture which would alert them to God's heart to help them identify weaknesses, old emotional or spiritual damage, and be made whole as a natural part of their walk with the Lord. Whosoever will may approach Him for help.It is no wonder that some Christians reach a crisis. And it is accompanied by an acute sense of failure; when it is the very bunch of Christians they joined, who presented them with fallacious and preconceived ideas about spiritual health, which, in that they themselves are not complete (to be charitable about this situation) has failed them.The gulf of years is the problem, not the need. Emotional elastic stretches only so far, then it snaps. That's ok. That's normal. Each of us is unique and not one of us is beyond being uniquely healed by the Lord, in the ways we require, to become as WHOLE as possible.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2005

Spitfire,I thought a nervous breakdown is when someone so looses control of themselves emotionally that they can't regain their composure without medical intervention.This is fair comment, though not everyone who needs it receives the medical intervention which would be appropriate. I have come to think of these as 'silent' nervous breakdowns and I reckon I've had one and several nearlies.Compton, you made a good list. On the post-traumatic responses, it has been noted by David Baldwin, (whose award-winning website 'trauma-pages' has extensive links), that adults who experience trauma only in adulthood, recover quickly and effectively, compared with adults whose have unresolved childhood trauma at the time of the event in adulthood. He is specially interested in disaster scenarios, but the site links to articles and research to other researches.I have come to feel that Christians are unnecessarily hard on themselves with regard to mental health, because like a broken leg, it is a valid health need, only a lot less visible, apparently. Or, do we try the 'ignore' treatment, on both ourselves and our fellow-travellers, until something has to 'give' - the equivalent of the leg falling off?

C

Compton Jun 22, 2005

I have come to feel that Christians are unnecessarily hard on themselves with regard to mental health, because like a broken leg, it is a valid health need, only a lot less visible, apparently. Or, do we try the 'ignore' treatment, on both ourselves and our fellow-travellers, until something has to 'give' - the equivalent of the leg falling off?Good connection, Dorcas.If we see someone with blood trailing behind him or her, we would respond as best we could. Though hidden, how less real are emotional or mental injuries?At the risk of sounding soft, sometimes we are too quick to see other people's sins trailing behind them. Perhaps there are some difficult people in our lives that would look quite different seen with the compassion and wisdom of Christ. Under normal light they appear healthy to our eyes, but in a spiritual light they are trailing clouds of blood behind like cut fish in the water... I think it's best that we see only in part, while the Lord sees all, because he knows what we need. How often do we seek "spiritual deliverance" when all along Jesus is seeking to bind us--- hopelessly to himself?Is this part of the reason that the Holy Spirit, while convicting of sin, filling with power, and giving revelation, is also called the "Comforter"? MC

S

Spitfire Jun 22, 2005

not everyone who needs it receives the medical intervention which would be appropriate. I have come to think of these as 'silent' nervous breakdowns and I reckon I've had one and several nearlies.Any medical intervention I've ever had was useless. The only thing that has ever helped me is dying to self. I have to do that everyday, and when I don't, I act crazy trying to defend my life. It's strange how many shapes "defending" can take. I am at this very moment being, once again, challenged by God to lose my life in an area that most wouldn't even recognize. I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself here. The red flag marker for me is always anger. 99 times out of a hundred, my anger reveals where I'm holding onto my life instead of dying to self. Right now, I've been angry with my husband for 6 weeks over bringing home a puppy that I begged him not to bring home. I knew I would be the one cleaning up after it and doing all the work, and guess what, I am. And I'm mad about it. I like my house clean. I like to spend my time doing what I want to do. I have little time as it is. Now, I have even less. Just yesterday, I blew up. Now, it's morning and I see the light. I tell you, much grief could have been saved if I would have acted 6 weeks ago when my anger flag went up. My point is, the only way to have mental health is to be dead. Love, Dian.