Judgements of God

In this day and age there is conflict as to whether prophets exist or not and in the OT it was the prophet who brought the Word of the Lord to the people. Today it is said in many camps that that Word is Jesus and the preaching of the Gospel except in pentecostal camps

When it comes to natural disasters some preachers come out and say they are judgments of God for that area and sometimes name some sins which are involved. I am guessing that no one knows if natural disasters are actual judgments of God but those who say they are are looking to sow their own seeds?

What are your thoughts?

Jesus said, "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in me. But anyone who does not believe in me has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son” (John 3:18). He says that those who do not believe in him and live for him "will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life” (Matthew 25:31-46). That’s not the Jesus most of us want to talk about especially in times where people are suffering the awful effects of natural disasters. But that’s where Jesus went in the face of disaster, so we would do well to go there with him.

MrBillPro

Yes..........but does any of that also fit into the weather as a judgment on societies? Or is the weather just a physics thing with God watching from a distance as in Deism?

If Jesus said "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in me". My guess is, if storms were part of his judgment against unbelievers, what about the believers that also suffer during these same storms? He would have to hand pick the believers out of the storms, to move them from judgment. Unless Jesus is a liar, this says it all.... "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in me.

Harvey and Irma are wreaking havoc. At this point it appears Jose will spin out into the Atlantic and not hit the US.

Assuming that remains the case, what are we to make of this? That God is judging with Harvey and Irma, but being merciful with Jose?

Or is it simply that every year some hurricanes hit the US and some stay out at sea?

And why is it that almost every hurricane hits the SE United States? I mean what about states like NM and NV and CO? Why would he continually punish one part of the country for the sins of the whole country? If he is punishing sins why has Hollywood not been swallowed up like Dathan and the rebellious Israelites?

When we try to say that one particular event is a judgment from God, then in all fairness we must also address all the other events (the great majority actually) that don't do major damage (like most hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes).

Yes..........but does any of that also fit into the weather as a judgment on societies? Or is the weather just a physics thing with God watching from a distance as in Deism?

It seems we always look at things from the extremes. We either say that God controls all of the nuances of weather, or that He is a dispassionate and disinterested deity who wound the clock and is now letting it run on its own. It is almost as if we cannot settle in the middle, but bounce back and forth from ditch to ditch.

I wonder sometimes too if we don't see our own time as so much worse than any other time that we cannot imagine God not sending a judgment on man right now for how much worse man has transgressed than ever before.

I don't believe the sin in the heart of man has changed much since God's first judgment of the flood. The results of that sin, the outward manifestation if you will, has become more and more accepted by society. People are acting out their sin in public now where in the past they would act it out in private. But I don't think the sin itself, the heart, is any worse than it ever was.

God has used natural phenomena to intervene in the course of people and nations in the past. I am sure He still does. He has not changed. But we need to be careful, I think, in pronouncing each new natural phenomenon as the judgment of God without knowing for a fact that this is true. I also think it a mistake to think that God directs every bit of weather.

The Bible says that all of creation groans and travails, awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God. This planet is cursed by the fall. The violent storms, earthquakes, droughts, etc. that we experience are, I believe, most often simply the manifestation of a large and complex system gone awry by the introduction of the curse of sin. I also believe that there are times when God directs parts of this system to get the message across to people. For example, three hours of darkness and a great earthquake at the death of Jesus.

I do know this. There is coming a day when the judgment of God will be poured out. In that day there will be do doubt, no debate, and no questioning whether what is happening is God's judgment. But at that time it will be too late to do anything about it. Our choices will have already been made and we will receive the just reward for our decision.

I agree, Travis.

I'd also point out that it is incorrect to equate an understanding of the principles of science, nature and engineering as "deism."

I know that my computer will turn on when I press the power button. I know this because I understand the science and engineering behind it coupled with experience. If my computer doesn't turn on one morning, it is likely caused by a violation of one of these principles.

That is not to say that I won't be always listening for the voice of the Lord -- "praying always" -- in case the Lord is trying to tell me something through such things.

However, I know that gravity keeps me on the ground and the force of that gravity is even measured.

In the sense of storms, meterologists predicted an above-average Atlantic hurricane season. How so? They aren't "prophets." Rather, they were looking at things like cyclical weather patterns (e.g., El Nino, La Nina, etc.), regional water temperature, etc. In other words, they are making estimates by studying and analyzing nature -- a system that God created.

Deism believes that God doesn't intervene in the universe that he created or interact with his creation. That is a terrible error and entirely unbiblical -- because we know that God intervenes. That is the very nature of a miracle! God does something that is "supernatural" (that is, beyond nature).

That said: God certainly created the "rules" of the universe that he created. Science is about observation and principles. The principles of nature are observed and determined to be "laws." That science is built into all of the products that you're using today -- from the screen that you're reading this on to the cars that you drive to the clothes that you wear to the food that you eat. Farmers understand the "laws" pertaining to "seasons" -- and how you plant certain items in warm weather rather than just before the winter.

Do we assign the fact that it will be cold this winter in many parts of the Northern Hemisphere as a divine act of God or part of the laws of nature that God in his divine wisdom set in place? The same is said of things like eclipses and other parts of nature. God can -- and has -- intervened and used such things when dealing with people. However, such interventions are often events that happen despite the laws of nature and science that God created rather than within them.

A new testament prophet recognizes God's judgment by revelation. When it comes to sounding "prophetic" It's easy and any new believer can do it, just look at a hurricane and then look at some old testament prophet and equate God's judgments are happening now as it was then. But this is not necessarily prophetic, it can be a discerning eye, it can be just wild guessing.
A new testament prophet can declare a disease is a judgment and he would be right...as long as it is a revelation from God and not merely a judgment from the pretended prophets heart. Las Vegas...one look at its modus operandi and it takes no prophet to discern the city is built on greed and covetousness, such a city is itself a sin-haven and its corrupted citizens received the reward of partaking in such sins. In short you need not be a prophet to recognize that there are places that are ripe for God's reproofs and their citizens are ever exposed to God's displeasure.

Multitudes are everywhere subjected to God's displeasure and are inevitably in-route to some kind of reward for their sins. But since we have the Spirit of God and the word of God, discerning the doom of the sinful takes no special gifting, declaring the reward of judgment upon wicked men or false religions is the job of any new convert let alone an aged saint.

One aspect of a true prophet and I've not read anyone mention it yet ( though I have not read the thousands of pages of postings) is the true prophet is not shy about speaking about the cross, the redemption in Christ. This Isaiah did as well as Jeremiah and others...yet in our pretending prophets they go to great lengths to minimize the preaching of the cross when it is on their hearts to condemn the wickedness of their neighbors. In short, if you are going to be prophetic you should see by revelation how God's redemptive plans fit in, not just a "get what they deserve" attitude towards those who do deserve it. But, we all deserve "it" meaning hell. I'm waiting for that true prophet to give to us by revelation what God is redeeming in his judgments, for God is not in the "tear it all down" one dimensional thinking some represent to us.
When God judged Egypt and brought the plagues...there was more going on than just putting a boil or a frog on an Egyptian. I hope you can see in some small respect that a new testament prophet is a declarer of the redemptive plan even in God's judgments. The floods and storms, the earthquakes and plagues have more behind them than getting at those unrepentant sinners who do not measure up.
I hope all of you realize that God can stop the mouths of every sinner and damn them all without the slightest injustice to his gospel or disapproval of His Son. It takes no special storm or special earthquake to vindicate God's will and word. But when He does affect so great a people with so great a disaster...where is that prophet or watchman that can declare God's redemptive plans behind it all?
Where is that prophet that can see past the easy-believism of a Joel Osteen and see what God is doing redemptively not just condemning.
Where is that prophet that can declare the goodness of the Lord to the distraught, perplexed, homeless and afraid, doubtful and questioning...ready to hear about a God who not only sends the sea to cover his enemies but makes the sea to separate them unto himself and baptize them?
I'll say it, but with carefulness...declaring God's judgment because of a storm is new-convert level thinking and revelation. A mature and godly man loves God's ways as Moses did and looks for God's ways in order to declare comfort and help to the people of God and combine it in an offer to the sinner for this salvation.

God Bless you brother Marvin!

Very glad to read your posts here and on the thread "Diaster upon Diaster".

It was very refreshing and I just wanted to say thank you for the Words of Truth, and for being on SI.

I loved the way you communicated, concerning what a true prophet does, and how well you articulated your message.
Just wanted you to know how much I appreciated it and how much I agreed with it.

The sad thing that I see in some of those on SI who claim to be a watchman or prophet in declaring by disasters that God is judging others because of their wickedness. That they fail to show any real love and mercy toward the people. They fail to even realize that they deserve hell just as much as others, if it wasn't for the grace of God.

They fail to even mention that God delights in mercy over judgment. That those who fail to show mercy will receive no mercy. That God gets no pleasure out of the death of the wicked, but that God desires for the wicked to turn to Him in repentance and live. That God does not punish the righteous along with the wicked. That Jesus even died for the ungodly to save them from the wrath to come, if only that would believe in Him and turn from their sins.

Anyway, blessings brother!
rbanks

rbanks: The things you mentioned are those things that portray the Apostolic distinctions between those who speak ill advised or immaturely. Some speak even from false assumptions. What is that precise distinction? It is the cross of Christ born by the believer, understood and declared as part and parcel of all God's workings in the new testament and it is the pivotal truth upon which all other doctrines find their necessity.
Yes, it is true God will put down the idols of man and destroy the wisdom of the wise; this God does in bringing a man to his knees. Whether it be by means of humbling a whole city or a state, God's presence knocks down our Dagons and cuts off the head and hands so even in the sinful man's blindness and hardness of heart the message of God rings through..."Your idols will not deliver you in the day of your calamity".
But our message does not stop there, for we preach Christ and him crucified...and we ourselves ( and this is the genuine distinction) we are willing to be crucified for the sake of our neighbors and friends, our relatives and co-workers. We humble ourselves, we pull back the pointed finger and we withdraw the condemning word and begin to preach Christ carrying their burdens with them, caring for them, helping them find safety and start over again. You see, redemption our own redemption is not displayed in doctrinal perfection here, our redemption is displayed in having no fear for ourselves in the face of calamity, having faith and hope living graciously toward them in love, this my brother is what the prophet should see. He should see the Church as Christ intended it and empowered it going forward, that prophet or watchman speaking first, living it out first is an epistle known and read of all men.
Sitting back rejoicing that we are biblically accurate concerning their deserved destruction is entirely opposite and opposed to everything Jesus teaches us as to how we should follow him.
It is important to understand this enigma, yes we are right and obligated to warn the wicked of their ways yet by God's eternal plan we are brought near to them and they find the genuine doctrine of the Cross and their own redemption as we the Church lay down our lives for them.
I realize this is not very 'judgmental sounding' in fact it appears to shift this whole decimation of their goods and lives away from God's wrath and hatred of sin towards an appeasement, a release; in fact, it becomes through Jesus Church the means to their new lives in him. God's destruction brought forth life, our crucified lives, giving and believing in hardship, troubles, sacrifices, and difficulties turns it all upside down resulting in their glorious entrance into the kingdom.
But for him that is satisfied with a cross-less Christianity where sinners are deserving of hell and law breakers have the full weight of the law brought down upon them, they will be right doctrinally and miss Jesus intent for his people by the same distance the pharisee's did when they condemned our Lord.
Do you want a prophetic word? Shut up the bowels of your compassion and refuse your neighbors and friends, do not visit the criminal in prison or feed a beggar or cloth someone who has just thrown it all in the street because it's full of mud...then ask yourself do you really believe
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

A prophet knows the way to live and its found in the crucified life of the believer living out his faith as God reveals Christ to him/her. This is what a prophet of God would tell the Church in a moment like this. ( if I were a prophet of God).

The theme of judgement has turned up with regularity on these forums. I think it'd be good if we could examine it more closely from a Scriptural perspective.

1. If we say that God is judging America (as an example), why and what would He be judging?

Would He be judging America for her unbelief? Or would He be judging her deeds, which are the fruit of unbelief?

2. How do such judgements of God fit in with the atonement of Jesus Christ, who was punished for all our sins?

Especially for the church - wouldn't there be a double jeopardy situation if we were punished for the same sins that Jesus had already suffered for? And surely double jeopardy would contravene the just character of God?

Travis wrote:

I also think it a mistake to think that God directs every bit of weather.

So what does God direct, and what does God not direct?

Even if we think that God does not direct every bit of weather, He surely can intervene and redirect every bit of weather. So He definitely is in total control - otherwise, what is the point of praying?

The Jewish connection:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.breakingisraelnews.com/93902/hurricane-harvey-divine-reaction-latest-us-mid-east-peace-push/&sa=U&ved=0ahUKEwj90fnMv5_WAhUGvLwKHeCtAv0QFggLMAA&usg=AFQjCNFGshxNeAk-nyMiCqTWmbpvoFh3AQ

When tragic events happened, people protest among themselves why them, there are lot more wicked who deserve their fate, they don't deserve this_ or people may argue, they must be more wicked than us to deserve this.

The fact is, all of us are sinners, none of us deserve to live another day, we all deserve judgement. Whether some die early or later for whatever cause and reason, is divine prerogative.

We all live by divine forebearance. If it so happened that we survived another day, there is a lingering message, 'repent', set your life in order for God, otherwise
we will likewise perish.

Thank you Brother Greg for locking the Disaster Upon Disaster thread, even if Mr. Bear got the last word,"probably not a coincidence" but Praise Jesus for locking it!