Resurrection:

The resurrection,...could iit have anything to do with
the need of washing of water by the Word ? Is it needful?

Can we consider that ?

-----------------
🛐

elizabeth

Yes,bro Greg, I will try,

Resurrection:
Thoughts: ......I know I talk a lot about the kingdom,...please bear w/me,...and NOW thinking on resurrection and is it something that is pertinent to the *Washing of Water by The Word." ?

What is your thoughts on:
Jn.3:5,...
Jesus answered, Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of 'water' and of 'the Spirit' he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

......does this 'Water' and 'Spirit', hold significants for being under the headship of the King ? ,..and entering the kingdom ?

thinking also, along the lines that being born is a travail,, if one wants to cling on to the world,.....having our will die, and washed away can be a travail.

I hope this is not foreign to everyone,..it is very important to me,because of The Lord revealing this to me that ....
* "The kingdom of God is the resurrected Lord in us" ..... He comes in,by Way of The Holy Spirit,to be Lord, ..King,..rule in our life, (Life).....the kingdom of God is within us,..it is The Fathers good pleasure to give us the kingdom...

But what does the 'Washing of water by the Word,have to do w/ The kingdom?
....I believe The King,who is Jesus,as His
'Grace' draws us to The Kings will,(we know that our will is always prevalent) then through the Spirit' leading, ..but must allow our will / Word to be washed away by His Word, ?...because He is King /Lord, of His Kingdom....us being made conformable...
( the resurrection of The Lord in us.)
* (The king at work in His kingdom that is within us)
prayerfully,
----------
elizabeth

The context in Eph 5 regarding washing of water by the word seems to have nothing to do with resurrection but rather Christ's desire for a sanctified church.

Obviously the new birth could be considered a resurrection of sorts and the new birth precedes sanctification.

I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you.
Psalm 119:11

Thank you,Todd,
I appreciate you responding.
I will consider on your thoughts.

I believe there is much to be considered about the overall / deep / a mystery,..if you will,...of The Lord' view of 'resurrection'....don't you?
Let us see..

Love the Paslms too,...His Words in our hearts..

Blessings,
-----------
elizabeth

Lots of times when I don't understand some of the word of God I just fall back to this...The God who has revealed Himself in Scripture tells us that He is going to be "incomprehensible” to us. But does this mean that God is going to be irrational or illogical? No. It means that God is beyond man’s capacity to understand or explain exhaustively. In this sense, God is beyond human reason and logic because He is infinite and we are finite.

Dear bro.,
Thank you for responding,

RE:
".The God who has revealed Himself in Scripture tells us that He is going to be "incomprehensible” to us. But does this mean that God is going to be irrational or illogical? No. It means that God is beyond man’s capacity to understand or explain exhaustively. In this sense, God is beyond human reason and logic because He is infinite and we are finite."

Re:
"It means that God is beyond man’s capacity to understand or explain exhaustively."

Bro. , Can we look at ,just a few, thoughts,......

* the men on the way to Emaus,...How The Lord opened their eyes.

*Paul, who did not confer w/man, ...didn't have a new testiment,..
but God taught him, through The Spirit.

* How the Scriptures continually desires for us to have 'spiritual eyes',...
eyes to see/ears to hear....and it is only He that can do that for us.

Peter, ..and we know that Scripture ,.."who do you say that I Am ?
"Thou art The Christ, The Son of the Living God.
( flesh and blood did not reveal this to him,but The Father in Heaven. ")

May we 'see' O'Lord, 🛐
🙏

---------------------
elizabeth

elizabeth said...Bro. , Can we look at ,just a few, thoughts,......
* the men on the way to Emaus,...How The Lord opened their eyes.
*Paul, who did not confer w/man, ...didn't have a new testiment,..
but God taught him, through The Spirit.

Elizabeth-

In Eph 5 when Paul talked about the washing of water by the word, don't you think he was just using a metaphor? Doesn't he just mean that the word, properly applied and heeded, can cleanse us?

It doesn't seem as esoteric to me as you are making it, but it is very possible I am not 100% sure what you are getting at.

Bro.,
RE:
.... "The men on the way to Emaus...my interpretation of that is yes, God did open their eyes, and they entered into a phase of their life in which they understood both the Scriptures and the Lord Himself differently. In other words they had a different understanding of God, I don't feel they completely understood him still."

Yes,..He wants to reveal to us who He really is.,....His thoughts,..... His judgments,how He see things....to actually 'know' Him.
Don't we need the keys to the kingdom too.
Isn't that the place we want to be?

So,What do we see in this ?

We can see in the communing w/Peter,...How it pleased Jesus,....by that revelation Jesus told him,...(we know how it goes)

when
The Spirit,...The Father revealed Truths to him,...and not a flesh and blood thing-
But,only a few verses down when Peter began to have a heart / care for this life,... earthly things,...his love of how he had it down here, ..his love /care for being w/ Jesus....
Jesus said to him,..."Get behind me Satan"

He does reveal His Word / His Spirit, ..Himself to us ,but by measure to us.
But Jesus,His Son,..God gave it to Him "without measure". (see below)

Jn.3;31-34,....(John the Baptist speaking of Jesus)
He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: "for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him."

Lovingly I share,
Thank you for communing,
-----------------
elizabeth

Todd,
Thank you.
Let me think on that some.

🙏

---------------------
elizabeth

Sister Elizabeth,

It is indeed interesting to consider what (I think) you’re getting at...

The "word” in the Ephesians passage is rehma and not logos-
So if I’m understanding correctly the passage is directing us to wash our wives in the "revealed/revelation” word of God, not simply beat her over the head with scripture (logos). Meaning we have to go before the throne of God and receive directly from Him a spoken revelation to have something with which to wash and cleanse our wives as opposed to simply citing verses from memory no matter how applicable. Another way of saying this is, not by the letter of the law but by the spirit of the letter, as it’s Holy Spirit whom reveals Christ:) Any old Pharisee can quote scripture but only a spirit filled and led saint can be a mouthpiece for God.
Also it ties back to Peter when he said "if any man speak let him speak as an oracle of God”... seems much the same, no?

Hey Fletcher-

I think in that verse in Eph 5 there is the shift from husbands loving your wives as Christ loved the church and it seems the washing part applies to the latter and not the former. That is how I read it anyway.

Bro.Fletcher,

First of all,please let me commend you,..only yesterday,I wanted to say,
that you have such a kind and restraint way of handling the most difficult situations with your words,..writing. That is remarkable.😊❤️

Yes, I do realize Paul was exhorting husbands ,..

As to what care husbands should care for their wife's, nourishing,and cherishing,..that is very good.

But,I understood Paul,as especially emphasizing Christ and the church.

So, how would Christ nourish and cherish the church ?
He cherishes us,...comforts,..I believe that means,..loves us and careth for our needs,...He really,many times runs ahead of us and takes care before we even ask.

He 'nourishes' us with . Spiritual / heavenly Bread / Food, sent down from heaven,....His Spirit / Word, to guide us in the Way we are to go.

That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,....(.is this why He gives us this Bread?)

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

He said it was a mystery:

Eph.5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Graciously,
--------------------
elizabeth

Yes and Amen to both brother Todd and Sister Elizabeth and please forgive me for not being more succinct (was at work while responding and got called to duty earlier than expected) as that thought was not clearly represented on my end.
In my mind the thought was complete tho after re-reading I see how clumsy and easily misunderstood it actually was/is...

I was hoping to continue with the analogy Paul was using of Christ and His church and a husband and his wife-
In the same way it applies to a domestic situation would be the same as with the church, meaning the church must be washed in the fresh revelation of what God is saying presently not only what has been written. Now of course it must align seamlessly with scripture tho nonetheless must be a "marriage” of the rehma and the logos. When the logos stands alone we find legalism, whereas when the rehma stands alone we find apostasy...
This theme of both is found throughout scripture, like with the gifts and the fruit of the Spirit. Often one wing is given priority over the other to such an extent that one is ignored or even denied. This, as we all know, produces a host of divisive dysfunction within the church, the body of Christ resulting in a powerless church that exhibits less and less of Christlikeness. Like Ravenhill once said a dove with one wing can only fly in circles never getting anywhere.

Likewise it is with the resurrection.... in order for us to abound in Christ there must be both reformation and regeneration. Often one is hilited at the expense of the other. While one turns to the left in disobedience the other turns to the right in deception, missing the narrow way in between them. It seems as though because each side has a scriptural basis their adherents are pitted against one another rather than finding both absolutely necessary and each being an integral functioning organ of the whole. The reformed camp often a bottom heavy organization that is so slow so as to be paralyzed and the charismatics are top heavy and are tossed to a fro at the whim of anything promising signs and wonders. Again both are necessary but in the proper proportion.
The resurrected kingdom life for which we are born can only be founded on Christ as He is revealed in scripture and can only be fueled by Christ the living word of God as a personal revelation, both of which are exclusively by His Spirit.

Luke 4:4 kjv
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Here we see a perfect synthesis illustrating this point... while our flesh must be fueled by "bread” our spirit must be fed by the word of God. Note; the "word” here is rhema the spoken word of the Father to His child-
So we see Jesus combine both by saying "it is written” which satisfies the logos while requiring/qualifying the rhema "spoken” and both are by His Spirit:)

We are all in constant dependence on both and to be without one is tantamount to having a car with either no gas or no oil... without gas we aren’t going anywhere and without oil we’re bound to burn out.
(For me) this is analogous to the "oil” of the virgins- they had the logos but were missing the rhema and therefore were caught off guard and found unprepared :/

Ok I’m rambling.... hope that helps to clarify and not over complicate the issue.

Thank you,Brother, Fletcher
Appreciate your thoughts,...the paragraph near bottom of page,especially
stood out for me .

Re:
" The resurrected kingdom life for which we are born can only be founded on Christ as He is revealed in scripture and can only be fueled by Christ the living word of God as a personal revelation, both of which are exclusively by His Spirit."

I was just thinking,..of different words in the Scriptures that actually represents 'resurrection" ,...that which comes forth to serve The Living God.
* Life
*living
Passing unto Life, is a resurrection.,... Life working in us,...

There is really much more that could be wrote about the resurrection,
that has maybe been passed over.

Paul preached the kingdom of God ,and the things pertaining to the kingdom,and the resurrection,..and people got really angry w/him when he preached the resurrection.

Phil.3:9-12,.. Paul said,
"And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 ¶ Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus."

Anyways,...would love to continue,
---------------

elizabeth

So we shall...

It’s interesting you quoted the passage from Philippians- why did Paul want to "know the power” of Christ’s resurrection ?

Paul makes a strong case in 1 Cor 15 that the resurrection is the fundamental basis of our faith,... citing; "if Christ not be raised we are to be pitied most among men”
So consider the gospel in a nutshell is "Christ in us, the hope of glory” what exactly does that mean?
Also consider that the resurrection is unto ETERNAL LIFE.... think about that for a minute, eternal = having no end or beginning. So when did/does the resurrection unto a timeless reality that always was/is occur?

Now perhaps Paul’s desire to "know the power” of Christ’s resurrection comes into focus. As well as some of his phraseology like in Ephesians 2 when he says we are seated (presently) in Christ in heaven (eternity).

Again if God was busy reconciling the world unto Himself in Christ, and Christ is in and being fully formed in us, why aren’t all things being reconciled in us?
Or another way of saying that is, has the gospel found it’s end in us?
The end being, "unfeigned love from a pure heart”.... isn’t that the measure of our hope far more than the gifts or fruit? We may have both the gifts and fruit but if we have not love.... and if we only love those who love us, then what good is it? But when we have unfeigned love from a pure heart even and especially for those who hate us and seek to do us harm, then we see the resurrection life of Christ in full display of its power here and now:) Isn’t that what He gave Himself for? Isn’t that the only way God gets glory out of man,...through Christ living in us?

Not sure if you’ve heard it but; Major Ian Thomas has a very good sermon touching on this- "a grain of wheat” which I’m sure is still here on SI

Bro.Fletcher,

All I can say at the point,...is WOW !

I must go back and absorb.

I wish I could just have all day for prayerful thought,and searching out on this sooo important subject.

- someone coming to help me today,..do some work,.., get back soon as can.

Bless you,
--------
elizabeth

Fletcher,
I am familiar w/ Major Ian Thomas,..remembered I enjoyed his writings,
and would love to look that up.

Your thoughts here are so enormous,..and rightfully needed.I am grateful.

Re: "It’s interesting you quoted the passage from Philippians- why did Paul want to "know the power” of Christ’s resurrection ?"

"To know the power of His resurrection" : .....to be under the total Lordship of The Spirit of God ? Wasn't that what he wanted to attain to ?
Paul said,"I die daily"....can there be a resurrection except there be a death.? .....Paul said,'daily'

...2Cor.4:10,11,
(Paul),..
"Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest (real) in our body."
or we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest (real) in our mortal flesh.

12 So then death worketh in us, but life in you."

*..is Paul saying,......that by dying always,,..the resurrection Life , that comes by this death,,that is what causes life to work in others.....?and then when they come to The Lord,death must work in them,or in us,that life can work in others ?

.( The Life,..The resurrection Life working in Paul / us, causes life to draw others to God)

(Paul),...".that I may "know him",and "the power of his resurrection", and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made "conformable unto his death",

Still, so much more prayer and thought-
And to back up and take more thought of your post and with much appreciation for Todds post,as well as others.
🛐

--------------
elizabeth

Yes!!! Amen and very well said:)

I was just finishing up on some notes to share when I read this and it’s def in the same spirit:)

Read over these noticing the verb tense, (present) as well as the continued correlation of Christ as head of His body the church-
Additionally He is the "firstborn” yet He is uncreated.... let that sink in and then we being the fruits becomes more resolute. It’s not so much about us producing fruits (we do) rather we ARE the fruits of Christ’s resurrection:)
Each producing after its own kind, just as it was from the beginning- which if I’m understanding correctly your words is what you’re saying about how our death to self allows Christ’s life in us to manifest and draw others unto Himself-

BTW this is an enjoyable fellowship and exchange/ministry so thank you for your patience and participation, it is not only encouraging but helps to focus/renew my mind on this subject:)

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Thanks again and I hope to share more later but for now I need to reread your post and meditate.

Blessings~