Prophet types berating the Bride

In Hosea and Micah and elsewhere the Lord remained covenantally faithful to a backslidden and apostate nation. If they were not faithful He remained so and remained wedded to them in spite of their unfaithfulness. Even in OT Israel there was always a remnant of the Spirit but God always related to the nation as a whole. Yet today, God is not in covenant with the apostate church. The apostate church went out from among the church because they were not part of the church to begin with. It's wrong to associate God's church after the Spirit with the apostate church. The difference is regeneration. The church is regenerated. The apostate church is not. Where did Paul call the true church a harlot? In spite of its warts and flaws God will perfect His church as He remains covenantally faithful to it. We need to stop seeing the church after the flesh but after the Spirit. Many prophet types today like to berate the Bride which is a popular thing to do and is a sign of unbrokenness within their own selves.

Brother, berating the bride is not good, but I think you go too far. The book of 1 Corinthians, Hebrews, and the 7 Revelaion letters to the churches all contain severe rebukes and/or warnings to a backsliding bride. In addition, Jesus had severe warnings for His best friend disciples, whom He loved very much, if they failed to shepherd the people rightly, abide in Him or failed to evangelize and preach as He called them to. Paul even uses the backslidden people as an example and warning to the Bride for her not to fall into their mistakes and suffer the same fate they did. A loving rebuke is sometimes a most necessary grace of God which is delivered through a gifted prophet if it is done with the words,attitude and heart that the Lord has provided to the one speaking for Him.

Does any prophet ever have an encouraging word for the bride? Jesus rebuked but he also encouraged, at least to those churches that merited same.

Constant beration will have a negative effect just as it has on [preachers] kids.

"Does any properly have an encouraging word"

First, the word "encouraging" is not rightly understood in the western culture. To give courage to someone to stand firm in Christ is encouraging even if the encouragement is a warning. Western culture defines encouragement unbiblically. Encoragement is a helping of another to remain courageous in the face of temptation and sometimes but hopefully not often includes a rebuke.

Some people are weak and need a gentle word. Other people are proud and need a humbling word.

The word necessary for an occasion depends on the spiritual need.

Often, people's own sensitivities to past harsh people in their lives can color what their view of encouragement is.

By all this, I do not support in any way all purported prophesy. I just am addressing the broader theological issue.

TMK, I think you raise a good point. The word encourage in the new testament means "to build a house." Paul understood this very well and this is how he saw his dealings with the church (and I don't speak broadly I speak of each individual). His goal was that every man be brought to their completion in Christ.

All of us have built a house for ourselves before we were saved. In Christ that house needs to come down (for it is built upon sand) and a house built on Christ must be erected in its place. So there is place for rebuke but this differs from "berating" in the sense that the final goal is the fulfillment of Christ in that person. Berating to me implies focusing on what is bad. To build a house you do need to correct the bad but if you do not finish constructing what is good then you will never have a house.

I think most of those who berate are unable to offer any alternative other than "turn to Christ" or "seek God" which are stupid vague statements and they are often unable to speak to exactly what those things mean because they don't know, they're just regurgitating what they have heard and what sounds good. I suspect most who do this are (unaware to themselves) seeking their own justification in being right rather then in Christ.

//I think most of those who berate are unable to offer any alternative other than "turn to Christ" or "seek God" which are stupid vague statements and they are often unable to speak to exactly what those things mean because they don't know, they're just regurgitating what they have heard and what sounds good. I suspect most who do this are (unaware to themselves) seeking their own justification in being right rather then in Christ//

Exactly!!

Godly rebuke is fine if needed but if that is all a so called prophet ever does, he is not being Christ-like.

1 Kings 22King James Version (KJV)

22 And they continued three years without war between Syria and Israel.

2 And it came to pass in the third year, that Jehoshaphat the king of Judah came down to the king of Israel.

3 And the king of Israel said unto his servants, Know ye that Ramoth in Gilead is ours, and we be still, and take it not out of the hand of the king of Syria?

4 And he said unto Jehoshaphat, Wilt thou go with me to battle to Ramothgilead? And Jehoshaphat said to the king of Israel, I am as thou art, my people as thy people, my horses as thy horses.

5 And Jehoshaphat said unto the king of Israel, Enquire, I pray thee, at the word of the Lord to day.

6 Then the king of Israel gathered the prophets together, about four hundred men, and said unto them, Shall I go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall I forbear? And they said, Go up; for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

7 And Jehoshaphat said, Is there not here a prophet of the Lord besides, that we might enquire of him?

8 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, There is yet one man, Micaiah the son of Imlah, by whom we may enquire of the Lord: but I hate him; for he doth not prophesy good concerning me, but evil. And Jehoshaphat said, Let not the king say so.

9 Then the king of Israel called an officer, and said, Hasten hither Micaiah the son of Imlah.

10 And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah sat each on his throne, having put on their robes, in a void place in the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.

11 And Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah made him horns of iron: and he said, Thus saith the Lord, With these shalt thou push the Syrians, until thou have consumed them.

12 And all the prophets prophesied so, saying, Go up to Ramothgilead, and prosper: for the Lord shall deliver it into the king's hand.

13 And the messenger that was gone to call Micaiah spake unto him, saying, Behold now, the words of the prophets declare good unto the king with one mouth: let thy word, I pray thee, be like the word of one of them, and speak that which is good.

14 And Micaiah said, As the Lord liveth, what the Lord saith unto me, that will I speak.

15 So he came to the king. And the king said unto him, Micaiah, shall we go against Ramothgilead to battle, or shall we forbear? And he answered him, Go, and prosper: for the Lord shall deliver it into the hand of the king.

16 And the king said unto him, How many times shall I adjure thee that thou tell me nothing but that which is true in the name of the Lord?

17 And he said, I saw all Israel scattered upon the hills, as sheep that have not a shepherd: and the Lord said, These have no master: let them return every man to his house in peace.

18 And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, Did I not tell thee that he would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?

19 And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.

20 And the Lord said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.

21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him.

22 And the Lord said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

23 Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.

24 But Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah went near, and smote Micaiah on the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the Lord from me to speak unto thee?

25 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see in that day, when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.

26 And the king of Israel said, Take Micaiah, and carry him back unto Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king's son;

27 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I come in peace.

We do not really have not that many true prophets around!

it is more like the pathetic!

Jeremiah 5

30A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;

31The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Deuteronomy 18
15The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Jeremiah 28
Jeremiah Confronted by a False Prophet

28 The following events occurred in that same year, early in the reign of King Zedekiah of Judah. To be more precise, it was the fifth month of the fourth year of his reign. The prophet Hananiah son of Azzur, who was from Gibeon, spoke to Jeremiah in the Lord’s temple in the presence of the priests and all the people. 2 "The Lord God of Israel who rules over all says, ‘I will break the yoke of servitude to the king of Babylon. 3 Before two years are over, I will bring back to this place everything that King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon took from it and carried away to Babylon. 4 I will also bring back to this place Jehoiakim’s son King Jeconiah of Judah and all the exiles who were taken to Babylon.’ Indeed, the Lord affirms, ‘I will break the yoke of servitude to the king of Babylon.’”

5 Then the prophet Jeremiah responded to the prophet Hananiah in the presence of the priests and all the people who were standing in the Lord’s temple. 6 The prophet Jeremiah said, "Amen! May the Lord do all this! May the Lord make your prophecy come true! May he bring back to this place from Babylon all the valuable articles taken from the Lord’s temple and the people who were carried into exile. 7 But listen to what I say to you and to all these people. 8 From earliest times, the prophets who preceded you and me invariably prophesied war, disaster, and plagues against many countries and great kingdoms. 9 So if a prophet prophesied peace and prosperity, it was only known that the Lord truly sent him when what he prophesied came true.”

10 The prophet Hananiah then took the yoke off the prophet Jeremiah’s neck and broke it. 11 Then he spoke up in the presence of all the people. "The Lord says, ‘In the same way I will break the yoke of servitude of all the nations to King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon before two years are over.’” After he heard this, the prophet Jeremiah departed and went on his way.

12 But shortly after the prophet Hananiah had broken the yoke off the prophet Jeremiah’s neck, the Lord spoke to Jeremiah. 13 "Go and tell Hananiah that the Lord says, ‘You have indeed broken the wooden yoke. But you have only succeeded in replacing it with an iron one! 14 For the Lord God of Israel who rules over all says, "I have put an irresistible yoke of servitude on all these nations so they will serve King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. And they will indeed serve him. I have even given him control over the wild animals.”’” 15 Then the prophet Jeremiah told the prophet Hananiah, "Listen, Hananiah! The Lord did not send you! You are making these people trust in a lie! 16 So the Lord says, ‘I will most assuredly remove you from the face of the earth. You will die this very year because you have counseled rebellion against the Lord.’”

17 In the seventh month of that very same year the prophet Hananiah died.

We still have the same God as Jeremiah, why do we expect the same result, we have so many prophets that are like the 400 who are prophesying lies and the people who are prophesying truth get sidelined.

Jeremiah 5:30
the prophets that prophecy falsely and the people love it so. There is noone who measures the prophecy against the actual prophets in scripture and there are many unfulfilled prophecies that are yet to come to pass and because people do not know there bibles ! Actually miss the prophecys such as the Destruction of Syria and the Construction of the Third Temple and the coming of the Antichrist that are actually predicted in scripture.

Hi Doc: I agree in what you are saying and I think It's dangerous to berate the body of Christ.
The true Church is not apostate...but its not perfected yet.
The truth Church is not in spiritual whoredom...but all believers over a period of time recognize idols we didn't know we had or didn't recognize them for idols.
The true Church does not live in sins...yet we are all learning to repent for sins we didn't realize were that deep in our hearts.
The true Church does not avoid its great commission...but not every believer starts off bold and brave, manly and confident. Some are afraid and weak and their weakness makes them easy targets for the strong.
I could go on, but I think you see, any pastor worthy of the name deals with Jesus precious bride in a very specific, very direct, very personal way going straight to those things that interfere with their walk of faith and holiness.
Jesus did not hold back anything in dealing with his Churches in Revelations 2 and 3, yet in warning them strongly he gave them promises for their overcoming and a future with him that entails honor and blessing.
The prophetic mantle in young and learning prophets can seemingly take on only a negative cast where they are doing what prophets do...tearing down anything that does not belong to the covenant of God given to the Church.
But those prophets need to learn to build as well, teach, encourage, exhort and comfort. You'll notice Isa 59 is one deep deep hole and Israel is at the bottom, yet chpt 60 is all light and hope and deliverance and glory. Both of these are part of the prophetic mantel and calling.
You are right in noticing rebuke without the offer of Jesus gracious promises to overcome and repent.
Our young prophets have more to learn and as Todd said elsewhere 'more dying to self'.