Pay with your fingerprint!!This is what is happening right now in Arnold, Missouri. And this news story says they are just the first to have it. Read the story for yourself:http://www.ksdk.com/news/hot_topics_article.aspx?storyid=80851Come quickly, Lord Jesus!RT
Praise the Lord these signs only tell of his coming. Yes the Spirit and the Bride, says Come Lord Jesus. :-D
The Bible never teaches the doctrine of an end time cashless society. It says that people will not be able to "buy or sell" without the mark of the beast. To buy or sell means exchange of money. One simply will not be able to do it without that mark. That mark does not have to be an advanced computer chip either. It could be as simple as simply putting some sort of stamp on your hand or forehead. Be careful of wild speculative doctrines which do not further the administration of God which is by faith.
Be careful of wild speculative doctrines which do not further the administration of God which is by faith.So are we to assume that you, KingJimmy, do NOT see anything apocalyptic about this?Are we further to assume that you would personally surrender your fingerprint in lieu of cash to pay your debts?Are we also to assume that when the government demands that you receive an implanted chip in your hand, and when they claim up and down that it has nothing to do with the number 666, that you will willingly take that chip and feel that you are far from the beast?Please answer each of these questions, KingJimmy.RT
So are we to assume that you, KingJimmy, do NOT see anything apocalyptic about this?I see nothing apocalyptic about this whatsoever, other than we are simply 1 day closer to the end than we were 2,000 years ago. You assume this is apoclyptic based off a common theological interpretation that is not even biblical. Nowhere does the Bible teach that in the last days we will have a cashless soceity. ON THE CONTRARY... the Scriptures teach that the last days will be filled with false prophets who prophesy to line their pockets, and you can't line your pockets with money if there isn't any! The Scriptures teach you will not be able to buy or sell without taking the mark of the beast. If you are buying and selling, you are still using currency. Don't buy into pop-theology. Are we further to assume that you would personally surrender your fingerprint in lieu of cash to pay your debts?I would if I thought it were secure enough technology, and didn't think it would be realistic for criminals to come by and chop my finger off or steal my finger print. Are we also to assume that when the government demands that you receive an implanted chip in your hand, and when they claim up and down that it has nothing to do with the number 666, that you will willingly take that chip and feel that you are far from the beast?If the government required by law that I take an implanted chip, then I would take it, so long as it had nothing to do with showing ownership and allegiance to the anti-Christ. When it comes time to show allegiance to the anti-Christ, it will be very evident you are taking such a mark for that very reason. It will be no trick. For the Scriptures teach that taking the mark of the beast will be in conjunction to worshiping the beast and his false image... this is hardly a subtle thing. Don't you realize you are making the same alarming-but-not-discerning arguments people made about social security cards, credit cards, the united nations, etc? Don't let emotionalism and hype and pop-theology ruin your discernment.
KingJimmy,Thanks for standing like a man in answer to my questions. I appreciate it. Now I know where you stand.As for your accusations of my buying into "pop-theology", you have no statement from me of the sort. I am hardly the person you could accuse of aligning with pop-theology. I am very unpopular in most of my theology. But truth is what is important to me.I see nothing apocalyptic about this whatsoever, other than we are simply 1 day closer to the end than we were 2,000 years ago. You assume this is apoclyptic based off a common theological interpretation that is not even biblical. Nowhere does the Bible teach that in the last days we will have a cashless soceity. I never claimed that the Bible taught that we'd have a cashless society. I just pointed out that we're heading toward one. That doesn't mean that it cannot be deduced from the "mark" passages. Cashless doesn't mean "no money" it means "no cash". One thing is evident. If you need a mark to buy or sell "in" your hand or forehead, it would be more of a hassle and pretty hard to sell to the masses if you had to pull out the wallet and pay as well. It seems more probably that electronic accounts would be connected to such a mark "in" your hand. But nevertheless, this scanning of the fingerprint IS meant to condition all of us to provide bio-data for approval in buying and selling. If you can't see that, you are blind.ON THE CONTRARY... the Scriptures teach that the last days will be filled with false prophets who prophesy to line their pockets, and you can't line your pockets with money if there isn't any!Again, no one I know is saying there won't be money. Just that there won't be tangible cash. (As a rule) If you are buying and selling, you are still using currency.Again, no one is saying "no currency." Just probably no cold, hard, cash that you can hold in your hand. It will be accounted "in" your hand on a chip. Possibly. VERY possibly.If the government required by law that I take an implanted chip, then I would take it, so long as it had nothing to do with showing ownership and allegiance to the anti-Christ.Maybe you don't realize it, but the Federal Reserve Note you call a "dollar" is not real money and is fiat money. It is debt. There is nothing federal about the federal reserve bank. It is a bank owned by some of the 8 wealthiest families on earth. They are the ones that are pushing for the One World Government and they are pushing for antichrist to be revealed. The minute they say that your FRN is worth nothing, it's worth nada. They control the money and therefore the people too. When the time is right and they have stripped the people of their rights, they will work for them for free until they get dragged to one of their concentration camps. Then they'll work till they die like with the Nazi's. If you want to be naive about this and care little about your freedoms, you are most to be pitied.If they ever demanded that I take a chip for any reason, I will disobey and God will back me. God's laws are higher than the laws of the beast.When it comes time to show allegiance to the anti-Christ, it will be very evident you are taking such a mark for that very reason. It will be no trick.Hmm...My Bible says that God will send men strong delusion so that they will believe a lie and that even the elect would be deceived if possible. Sounds pretty crafty to me.I think they are turning up the heat right now and we're the frog in the pot. Time to jump out.For the Scriptures teach that taking the mark of the beast will be in conjunction to worshiping the beast and his false image... this is hardly a subtle thing.And yet Christians struggle with loving the world and the things in it. They are constantly running to its entertainments and allurements. So how much is the love of the Father in us right now? Do you struggle with keeping yourself unspotted by the world, or am I the only one?? Friendship with the world is enmity with God.this is hardly a subtle thing."Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made." - Gen. 3:1aDon't you realize you are making the same alarming-but-not-discerning arguments people made about social security cards, credit cards, the united nations, etc?Which of these things you have listed are right and virtuous? All of these things have been used to enslave humanity and particularly Americans. Don't be a blind guide.Don't let emotionalism and hype and pop-theology ruin your discernment.I won't. Thank you very much. And you might do well to get your head out of the sand and see the time we are living in and know how to act. If you had any discernment in this area whatsoever, you wouldn't be mocking this expose of the spirit of the world.RT
Something ironic here...RT you are a purist when it comes to scripture text...yet you seem equally committed to extra-biblical concepts. (Not just you, but too many of us.) What's the point of being a vigilant grammarian, defending the supremacy of the Textus Receptus from corrupt manuscripts and Hellinistic modernity ...only to allow Hal Lindsey, Salem Kirban, and Tim Layhaye fiction to be treated as Canon? It doesn't seem consistent...We have to gaurd against the Latin Vulgate from tainting the purity of our bible interpretation, while simultaneously insisting that the "mark of the beast" is an ancient reference to biometric technology.Is this observation reasonable or am I missing something?MC
yet you seem equally committed to extra-biblical concepts.I'm not "commited" to ANY extra-Biblical concepts. I readily admit that the cashless society is a deduction and not Biblical teaching. I have tried in a previous post here to make that clear. If a person disagrees with me, this is fine.The spirit of the beast and antichrist should readily be seen. Would you disagree with this? What's the point of being a vigilant grammarian, defending the supremacy of the Textus Receptus from corrupt manuscripts and Hellinistic modernity ...only to allow Hal Lindsey, Salem Kirban, and Tim Layhaye fiction to be treated as Canon?I don't know that second name you mentioned, but I am in total disagreement with Lindsay and Lahaye on eschatology. They believe in some sort of pre-coming of Christ (pre-trib view) to appear and then leave and snatch up the Christians from anything bad that might happen to them. Yet the Bible says something quite different. The rapture/resurrection won't happen until "after the tribulation" of those days. (Matt. 24) You really should ask and not make assumptions. I know first hand. I just got done eating some crow in a PM to dann where I repented to him for making assumptions about him. So I'm not pointing fingers here. Just saying. Ask. I'll try to do the same.while simultaneously insisting that the "mark of the beast" is an ancient reference to biometric technology.Man, go read my post. I made it clear that I didn't "insist" on anything of the sort. I only said that it was probably. Very probable. But that is far from saying it is fact, which I did not do.Is this observation reasonable or am I missing something?Alright, cool, you did ask. Thanks. Well there's my answer.Blessings,RT
Gentleman,Might I suggest something here. Re-read what you wrote and take note of the digs at each other... and then try again.
Might I suggest something here. Re-read what you wrote and take note of the digs at each other... and then try again.I hear ya. Y'all pray fo me. Here's my try:I love Jesus. I love y'all. No digs intended. Just debate rhetoric. Nothin' personal y'all. Much love to the believa's. The end is near. Let's stay out of the beast system wherever possible. Just another sign of the times.RT
RT, Forgive my jibes dear brother. They read much meaner then I was intending...(Text chat doesn't convey the twinkle in the eye.) It wasn't right of me to be so flippant like that...handling words is like handling explosives...the minute you get careless someone can get hurt.Thanks for your patience...Let's stay out of the beast system wherever possibleBrother, I'd just like to stay my foot out my mouth wherever possible.:-( MC
Forgive my jibes dear brother.No offense taken whatsoever. I enjoy a good spirited discussion. How fun would life be without a bit of wit here and there? Brother, I'd just like to stay my foot out my mouth wherever possible.When you get done with your foot, can you help me with mine? :knockedout: Is there a doctor in the house? :-P RT
As for your accusations of my buying into "pop-theology", you have no statement from me of the sort. I am hardly the person you could accuse of aligning with pop-theology. I am very unpopular in most of my theology. But truth is what is important to me.I'm not saying your theology as a whole is pop-theology, as being post-trib (as I am) is hardly pop-theology. However, the notion that the mark of the beast is going to be some space-aged advance computer chip type system is very much pop-theology. Such though is a entirely wild speculation though. The Scriptures simply teach it will be a mark. To be specific, the greek indicates this mark is more of a branding, as in the type put on cows. That makes it hardly a computer chip or fingerprint or iris scanning technology. Again, no one is saying "no currency." Just probably no cold, hard, cash that you can hold in your hand. It will be accounted "in" your hand on a chip. Possibly. VERY possibly.Even if it ends up being a cashless society one day, the Scriptures themselves do not in anyway predict this. It is more-so a deduction based off current trends of technological advancement. Here is my deduction. World War 3 happens and all the societies that even had such technology are blown off the face of the earth because of a nuclear war. If such happened (and especially consider since America is not mentioned in the Bible), then we will be reduced to rather antiquated means for surviving. A ruler will emerge who will offer the surviving world hope and peace if they only follow him as God. To show their allegiance, he demands his followers only do trade with those who brand themselves with a mark on their head and/or forehand. Now, this theory that I just made up is highly speculative, but equally as plausable. It also is a lot more Biblical. p.s. forgive me if I was a little harsh in prior posts, I was not in a particularly great mood at the time.
I'm not saying your theology as a whole is pop-theology, as being post-trib (as I am) is hardly pop-theology.Thank you.The Scriptures simply teach it will be a mark. To be specific, the greek indicates this mark is more of a branding, as in the type put on cows.Now this is extra-Biblical speculation. Here you are wrong. The Bible says that the mark will be "in" the hand or forehead. A brand is (as you so accurately said) "on cows", not "in" them. God knew exactly what He was talking about. It is our primitive minds that try to look back to what we know already instead of seeing that God is showing us what will be that before hasn't been. So who is the wild speculator, sir?Here is my deduction.So you admit that you do this as well with the "mark" passage. Interesting. ;-) World War 3 happens and all the societies that even had such technology are blown off the face of the earth because of a nuclear war. If such happened (and especially consider since America is not mentioned in the Bible), then we will be reduced to rather antiquated means for surviving. A ruler will emerge who will offer the surviving world hope and peace if they only follow him as God. To show their allegiance, he demands his followers only do trade with those who brand themselves with a mark on their head and/or forehand. Ahh...So you see...your speculation requires quite a bit more gymnastics than mine. Why is this? Because you assume that the mark will be (and I quote) "on their head and/or forehand." But the Bible (KJV of course) says that it will be "in" the hand. Why don't you go check me out and just see if I'm not right? ;-) Now what in the world could be put "in" our hands that could regulate buying and selling? Hmmm.....Positive Identification Microchips?? That WOULD work. But taking a molten brand out of the fire will leave a mark "on" the hand and doesn't fit the bill.Will you consider that maybe you are wrong here?RT
Since my time is short right now, I'll just do a fly by for now (it might be a couple days before I have more chance), especially since I have a couple more post I have to check up on besides this.Will you consider that maybe you are wrong here?Of course, but read my prior post closer, for in it I say:Now, this theory that I just made up ...I essentially typed up the first thing that poppped in my head. I made this theory up on the fly. I gave it no more than 30 seconds.I'll have to look up the "in" vs "on" reference when I get a chance, but I recall from prior looking up behind the word actually used for mark, the greek for "mark" was likened unto cattle branding. To me, a difference between "on" and "in" in this instance doesn't mean much as if you brand a cow, you are pressing the hot poker/iron into the cow's skin to leave the mark. Further more, a mark is something that is visible. Even if there is more to this "in" thing, one does not need a super computer chip of some sort. At Target (the company I work for), we have all sorts of special security stickers we put "in" cd's, clothes, etc. If somebody attempts to walk out of the store with one of these magnetic strips not having been deactivated, the alarm goes off. Why not simply have something more like this? Something that needs to be distributed on such a massive scale needs to be simple. I believe your idea is far too complicated, and far too speculative. There are much more simple solutions available. Let's start with the simple before going more complex. Cattle type branding seems pretty simple. I know a man who got such a branding on his arm at a college frat party. He drank a beer, they put a nice hot poker to him, leaving a very distinct marking, and he said it really didn't hurt that bad. Easy to do, little pain, cheap, can be done by farmers and college students alike.
Here is my deduction. World War 3 happens and all the societies that even had such technology are blown off the face of the earth because of a nuclear war. If such happened (and especially consider since America is not mentioned in the Bible), then we will be reduced to rather antiquated means for surviving. Oddly enough, I was considering posting a similar notion. It's a scenario that occurred to me while reading about the threat of electromagnetic pulse weaponry (See article here) which apparently has the ability to damage/disable electronics. I don't know if reports like that are hype or not, but it does give one pause. Imagine what it would be like if we were all used to our fingerprint scan payment system, and then suddenly the electronic infrastructure is destroyed. But this is speculation from an active imagination.
This discussion is locked.
