2 Timothy 2:14

Read that verse. Go get a Bible and look it up.

I think we need to do a lot more of this.

I have noticed our own tendency to really argue about the grey or contentious issues, but if someone puts something REALLY encouraging and beneficial for all, there's very little discussion.

The kindness of God leads us to repentance, why should we follow any other model? We are known as disciples for our love for one another. You feel like a brother is wronging you in the forum by what he says? If everyone would apply the principals of 1 Corinthians 6:7 and take being wronged or cheated rather than creating a spectacle for unbelievers and the Lord's enemies to enjoy, we'd be in a lot better shape.

Revival is bringing something that is dead or dying back to life, and you do that by doing good for them. You give them that which they need to sustain life. You don't beat somebody back to life. I understand departing from sin, but if that sin is not addressed through the hope of the Gospel, then any "departure" is rendered ineffective.

Let us speak encouragement to one another, that which is necessary for our edification. Speak the truth in love. Don't wrangle over words to the destruction of the hearers. This forum is accessible to everyone in the world. Our words are watched by believers and unbelievers. Let us commit ourselves to mutual encouragement. Let our default setting be to give preference to one another in honor. I am challenging everyone, myself included, to do these things:

1) To frame our words in a way that is truthful, loving, compassionate, and ascribes value and respect toward those to whom we are speaking.

2) To refrain from posting anything--truth or not--that is not posted with the motivation of genuine love and concern for the body of Christ as a whole and members individually. This one is hard, because what you might want to say could be 100% true, but you have to examine your heart. If you feel "sorry" for a person because they aren't as enlightened as you, don't post, because your motivation is evil. Period.

Thanks everyone!

Heated debates and discussions can go sideways that's a fact. I wouldn't want anyone to think that because there are issues that register little more than a blip on our radar that on someone else's its all hands on deck, general quarters and air raid sirens going. The only way we ever learn to love each other according to knowledge is by sharing what we know and why its important to us.

I realize havok has a great point and I won't attempt to diminish it, I am saying for men to be men they must deal in ways that are rough, sometimes fleshly, sometimes hard and sometimes easily misunderstood. There is no Iron sharpening Iron when men treat each other no better than jello bumping jello. Love is and never has been confined to easy to digest and sweet talk. Very valuable and timely instruction has been given to me in very uncomfortable and unfriendly ways.

Looking on the surface one can falsely conclude the way to end all strife is to avoid all strong language or passionate rhetoric. But this is love shallow and based solely on ignorance of each other. Think of it this way. When a man marries his bride...he loves her but when he finds out just who he married and what is really in her his love must learn to die to self within the confines and the very necessity of difficulty, argument, different tastes, different opinions, different way we were raised...all of this does not detract from a mans love but in Christ he can find a better love for his wife than the shallow sex and laughter relationship that made he/she interesting.
Loving the body of Christ is no different in manner, you can say you love me when you don't know me or just read a few words that please you, but when you find a strong disagreement and you love, show patience and stand together you find a love that has been tried and found true.

I realize mean-spiritedness and strivings can derail discussions that is for sure, but at the end, I seek to look past hard words or misunderstandings or even misjudgments about me...I learn from engaging not from hearing things that sooth or placate any kind of disagreements but force me to think to defend or to reconsider my own positions.

Someone remarked..."no one really changes their opinion". On the surface, because this media cannot show human expression other than word-form or word-tone all looks the same as the beginning. However, we all affect each other. I hope simply because some discussions are heated they are not summarily written off as carnal and useless. I think we should give the Spirit of God more credit than that.

It is good and we do good to one another by exposing our thoughts and putting them out there for scrutiny. When we copy paste long sections of scripture with a few sentences...we have not exposed ourselves to scrutiny at all, its what WE think that determines how we interact with each other.

I hope you read this as a mutual encouragement, do not avoid disagreement, do not avoid passionate rhetoric, do not avoid putting yourself out there to be judged. If you hide how can you possibly be loved for who you are and what you truly believe? If you are hated in this venue consider the hater to have the problem, even if you were an atheist and God-hater yourself, the love of Jesus cannot be shown to you while you harbor in secret such beliefs.
Death to self means loving people right where they are, it takes nothing to love folks in word and in ignorance.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
Mat 5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

There is no doubt that there is a time for hard words, that are 100% truth, 100% love, and difficult to swallow. There is most certainly a time and place for that.

There are a couple of things I want you to know about me, so you can see my perspective.

1) I am known as a hard man. People find a lot of what I say unpalatable because of the content, because I do not sugar-coat truth, and because I do not tolerate falsehoods.

2) I don't take pride in that. There are times when being hard, never-letting up, and defending my position vehemently have served me and others well. There are times when it hasn't.

There are 4 things we need to be concerned about here, though: The motivation of our hearts, the perception of the one whom we are addressing, the truthfulness of what we say, and the affect it has on outside individuals.

Sermonindex is a place where what we say ALWAYS is viewed by others. The issue we have is we will get into a discussion that NEEDS to be private between two Brothers sorting things out, but remains very public because they choose NOT to take the discussion offline.

Iron indeed does sharpen iron, but it is a controlled process. Iron most certainly does not sharpen iron during a sword-fight. When iron IS sharpening iron, each stroke is placed, counted, and done so that both sides of the blade are even and useful and neither tool is destroyed.

I most certainly do not advocate the emasculation of men--turning them into little fairies that never whisper a negative word--what I am advocating is that grit and growl need to be reserved for the REAL enemy, and love and compassion need to be given to brothers and sisters when they are not involved in gross immorality. When they are steeped in sin, then we address it Biblically, always seeking for their reconciliation--even if it means excommunication or no longer fellowshipping with them.

I am a grown man, and I have a lot to learn before I am the same kind of man as Christ, but I want to encourage brothers and sisters here to examine their hearts before posting. I believe that it will not only keep the enemy from using what is said here to his advantage, but it will also help us all to grow closer to Him and each other.

Havok: We are on the same page, its for this very reason you underscored so well that there is value in these discussions when they are done in a godly and loving manner.

Well said posting and of course should be given heed.

Praise the Lord for God's grace in you.