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End times stuff and Jerusalem the capital city.

sermonindex Dec 9, 2017

It is always dangerous to write about end times. There has to be a lot of humility even when you broach the subject and a willingness to agree to disagree. Anyone who tells you that "this is the way it is going to happen,” you can take with a pinch of salt. The reason I am writing this short piece is because a few people have asked me if I think there is any significance for the end times in regards to the USA recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

Short answer, yes, just because I think everything that happens to Israel and more specifically Jerusalem is significant. I think it actually might lead to a major peace deal, the one spoken of in Scriptures, a seven-year comprehensive peace deal and all the world will celebrate, but when they say "peace,peace,” there will be no peace and half way though that deal it will all fall to pieces. Let me give you the relevant Scripture from where we get the notion that there will be a seven-year comprehensive peace deal.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:21-22 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

1Th 5:2-3 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Rev 13:7-8 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So, the typical understanding of the abomination of desolation is that it takes place in the Temple, a Temple. Of course at this moment we do not have a Jewish temple in Jerusalem so most suppose a third temple has to be erected in order for this prophecy to take place. I disagree, for a couple of reasons. First I believe the saints themselves to be the third temple with God dwelling inside each of them, each of them being a living stone. Secondly in Matthew 24 Jesus refers to the "Holy Place.” Now, the ground upon which the Temple was built was a holy place. If you do the research you will see that the site of the Temple itself had a long rich history and so was not built on a random site. So what is there now? Right now we have the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. The Dome was completed in 692 and this makes it one of the oldest Muslim holy places in the world.

So that is some of the history and Scriptures that allude to this topic, now back to the USA recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Many if not most scoff at the notion that someone like Trump could be part of a final comprehensive peace deal in the Middle East. I want to remind everyone that there was another President that people openly mocked and scoffed as a buffoon, President Regan. Yet he was the one that brought down the mighty Soviet empire and the Berlin wall, the symbol of separation of east and west. Now we know that God raises up the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. The recognizing of Jerusalem as the capital city is the first step towards the peace deal that we know has been foretold.

So I believe that when you see all three religious leaders of the world come together in the "Holy Place,” to combine the religions of the world then this is the abomination, the birth of the great whore church. What disaster or disasters that bring this about I cannot tell you but it will come to pass. The world will be so sickened by terrorism, perhaps after the largest atrocity the world has ever seen, that the people of the world will demand a coming together. The leaders of the religious world will meet, at the demands of the political leaders of the world, at the holy site, the holy place, the Dome as it is now. They will tell the world that each of them believe Abraham to be their mutual father of faith and that Abraham’s God is their God whether they are Christian, Jewish or Muslim. It will be a day that the world will celebrate and exchange gifts to commemorate true world peace. And the cry will be "peace and safety.”

The only people of the world who will resist this will be the saints and they will incur the wrath of the whole world. They will be seen as a cancer in society that has to ripped out. The religious and political leaders will point to them and tell the world that these so-called Christians are the source of all the worlds problems. And so war shall be made upon the saints and they shall be overcome for a time as every tribe and tongue and nation worship the one world government and the one world religion. In fact it will be so severe that if God Himself does not shorten those days then there would be no saints left on the earth.

I believe that all these things are shortly to come upon us. It is a good thing to be prepared just as Jesus prepared in the garden before the crucifixion. We are called to endure to the end saints. We are called to overcome and stand in the evil day. Our God will be with us and He will pour out His Spirit upon us so that we may have the strength to endure. He is God that keeps His promises and He shall never leave us no forsake us............bro Frank

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TMK Dec 9, 2017

Frank you seem to be saying the tribulation will be suffered only by the remnant and not the world in general, but I wanted to make sure this is what you are saying. I do not believe I have heard that interpretation before. I have heard the version set forth by Art Katz that Jews would be the target of the great persecution.

sermonindex Dec 9, 2017

Hi Todd, as you probably know, it is a very complicated st of circumstances in the end of ages. Many different views and so on. Each saint has to study the Word for themselves by the Holy Spirit and be convinced, fully persuaded, in what they believe. So here is my short answer to your question.

Dan 9:27 starts the seven year period and the seals (Rev 6:1-2)

First seal is opened and the rider of the white horse appears, probably the antichrist.

Second seal opens and a great war begins.

Third seal opens and we see runaway inflation and famine probably caused by the war.

Fourth seal opens and a fourth of the folks and the creatures are destroyed, this is well over a billion people.

Fifth seal opens and the remnant saints are martyred in earnest.

Six seal is opened and Gods wrath produces a mighty earthquake of biblical magnitude takes place.

Seventh seal is opened and then follows the day of His wrath and the trumpets and so and so forth brother. All the way along the saints are being persecuted and it just gathers steam. This is just a short answer, you know your Bible brother s you can finish it but here are a few scriptures

For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.(Mat 24:21-22)

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Mat 24:29-31)

You see brother, after the tribulation is over it is then that the Lord returns and gathers His own, His remnant, those who endured and overcame, those who were martyred will come with Him...............bro Frank

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TMK Dec 9, 2017

I’m definitely not pre-trib- your explanation helps because as you explain it worldwide trouble is concurrent with religious persecution.

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docs Dec 9, 2017

One thing can be counted on. The issue of who is to control Jerusalem and the accompanying "what's to be done with the Jews in Palestine" problem is not going to go away and will eventually threaten world peace. The nations, or the humanistic leadership of nations, will likely take an even more dramatic shift against Israel as Israel maintains a unmovable attitude over the issue of Jerusalem. This controversy of Zion will become the epi-center of world geopolitical problems and the Jews will once again become the main culprits in the eyes of the nations. This controversy will be in the heart and middle of events swirling around the end of the age. It's said Christ may walk through the eastern gate upon His second advent to Jerusalem. Therefore the Muslims have sealed up the eastern gate and have a graveyard on the outside built up to the gate in hopes that the Christian and Jewish Messiah would not walk through a graveyard. Likewise, the principalities and powers know that when Christ has returned and is secure in Jerusalem that their sway and hold over the minds of men in this present evil age is over and done with. Hence the latter day controversy of who should own and have control of Jerusalem.

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Heydave Dec 9, 2017

Hi Frank,

I have a very similar understanding as you on these events.
what I thought was interesting was that you seem to see the seals unfolding concurrently with the trumpets and vials. I also see it that way, i.e. they describe the same period of Tribulation in different detail, but I've not heard anyone else state this.

sermonindex Dec 9, 2017

Dave writes...

I have a very similar understanding as you on these events. what I thought was interesting was that you seem to see the seals unfolding concurrently with the trumpets and vials. I also see it that way, i.e. they describe the same period of Tribulation in different detail, but I've not heard anyone else state this.

▪▪▪

I have always thought that the seals and the bowls and the trumpets were all occurring at the same time myself. Also I'm wondering if in some ways the aeals are not being opened even now. Particular the seal describes the martyrs.

Anyway. Just pondering.

Blaine

sermonindex Dec 10, 2017

Hi Dave, I do see it that way, always have. Not claiming any special revelation but in the reading of the Word, this is how it reads to me. Before coming to Jesus at the age of 26, I had not grown up in a religious house with theories and doctrines of end times and so on. So, no pre-conceived notions, a virgin to the Scriptures so to speak as I am sure many who were saved as adults would testify to as well.......bro Frank

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Pnutty Dec 10, 2017

Does it seem that the seals, and the bowls etc are 4 viewpoints of the same events like the Gospels are four views. So 1111 2222 3333 etc? The first advent and the second advent.


I think a very literal temple is to be built.
Nothing is too hard for God. It seems like a tiny earthquake or a muslim missle, instead of intercepted by Israel, can be redirected right into the mosque by the hand of God.

It is the LAND that is important.

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deltadom Dec 10, 2017

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate

The reason I do not believe it is a peace treaty because it is not clear from this verse , to me from this passage it says sacrifice and oblation shall cease and that cannot happen in a non literal temple

I also struggle with it being a peace treaty as there has been so many peace treaties with Israel which one is it and it is not clear from the scriptures that it is a peace treaty

2 Thessalonians 2

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

In the passage in 2 Thessalonians 2
it says that the antichrist sits in a literal temple to me this is not to far fetched as the temple institute have all the requirements to build the third temple, the menorah and other temple vessels , even the plans

Maimonides has requirements for a Jewish Messiah and building the temple is one of them and no jew who is orthodox will accept an antichrist who does not build the third temple

god bless you apollos as you are a lovely brother
god bless Dom

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ginnyrose Dec 16, 2017

Interesting how others are saying what I have concluded, too...many of these judgments as described in Revelation are describing the same event but from a different perspective. (We know the Gospels did the same with the life of Jesus.) I generally do not share this sense much because I was not sure how to explain it although I did start with drawing a chart but got sidetracked and never finished it. And if you do share this someone will be sure to come and knock it down, but even then the conviction still remains.

In observing the conflicts that have engulfed society, reading Revelation gives me a sense of peace because we are told that all calamities are happening under the supervision of God. And....history teaches us the world is EVIL and we have to learn to accept that it always will be until Jesus return.

Sandra

sermonindex Dec 16, 2017

Dominic writes.........

"The reason I do not believe it is a peace treaty because it is not clear from this verse , to me from this passage it says sacrifice and oblation shall cease and that cannot happen in a non literal temple I also struggle with it being a peace treaty as there has been so many peace treaties with Israel which one is it and it is not clear from the scriptures that it is a peace treaty"

Lets suppose brother, that the temple is you and I. Do you praise God brother publicly on a Sunday morning or at other times? Is that not the sacrifice of praise? Oblation simply means to present or offer something to God. I believe that the anti-christ will rid the public square of all things holy. They will cease to be and he will cause it to be so. Any saint, in those days, who tries to praise God or honor God or exalt His name anywhere publicly will be rounded up.
As for the treaties, this treaty, this comprehensive treaty will take place in the 70th week, so, at the end of times.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.(Dan 12:7)

God's people shall be scattered for three and a half years and just when it looks dire and without hope,then God shall come. Just as in the public ministry of the Lord, three and a half years ending in the humiliation,torture and horrific death of Jesus and darkness covered the land and then, up from the grave He arose with a mighty triumph oer His foes!!! Victory from the very jaws of what seemed like certain defeat. The victory for the saint comes in the depths of the dungeons. Those who will prevail are those who shall endure and overcome. If we love God more than life then we shall endure until the end and not just endure but cry glory even in the midst of gross darkness. The enemy shall never silence the praises of His people even though He try to kill everyone of us to shut the mouth of Jesus. The enemy killed every child of a certain age in a great slaughter and laments were heard, but, hark the Herald angels sing, glory to the new born King, above the weeping of grieving mothers the cries of our deliverer was heard. The enemy failed and Christ prevailed and as it was then so it ever shall be until that day dawns and the morning star rises in your heart...................bro Frank

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docs Dec 17, 2017

Many assume the abomination of desolation is spoken of only in Daniel 9:24-27. It's also recorded in Daniel 8:13, 11:31 and 12:11. Considered together it seems there is scant room to believe a literal temple is not included in the overall context. Nor is a symbolic non literal AC/man of sin being spoken of.

Jesus said when you SEE the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet let those in Judea flee for this event will begin tribulation such as never occurred. Jesus could not have been more clear and personally directed believers to the prophet Daniel. It's detrimental to ignore His instructions. The AOD will be the most specific clue of clues of clues that the final crisis of mankind will have begun culminating in Jesus' physical second advent. A church that knows what to look for will recognize the AOD for what it is (the most clear and specific sign Jesus gave) and will not be left in the dark wondering what to look for.

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TMK Dec 17, 2017

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abomination_of_desolation

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TMK Dec 17, 2017

Truly I tell you, **this** generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
Mark 13:30 (my emphasis).

There is no indication in the Olivet Discourse that when Jesus says "you” he means anything other than his direct audience who asked him the initial question which initiated the discourse.

sermonindex Dec 17, 2017

Jesus says in Matthew 24............

"Mat 24:15  When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) "

Jesus brings clarity to the OT. He says Holy place, this is something different than temple. OT reader could not even begin to imagine that the temple would be torn down and not one stone would be left un-turned, nor could they have imagined that that an idolatrous temple would stand in its place. Yet, none of that means that the ground upon which it stands is still considered to be holy ground. Let us remember that the clue is in this part "whoso readeth, let him understand." .................bro Frank

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docs Dec 17, 2017

"Who so readeth let him understand," means the reader can understand that when the abomination of desolation is SEEN which the prophet Daniel spoke of then it can be understood that the end of the age and Christ's second coming is near and will be preceded by a unprecedented time of trouble and distress such as has never occurred nor ever will again. Let the reader understand. With no literal temple then I suppose there is no literal AC/man of sin. Hence, the interpretive mode of over spiritualization of prophecy once again actually ends up blurring the picture.

sermonindex Dec 17, 2017

There is a literal anti-christ I believe. Believing the temple is not literal does not preclude believing in a literal anti-christ. Anyone who speaks with absolute assurance in regard to end times is simply deluding himself, there much be a humble approach in regard to this subject. If one disagrees on matters of the end times with another brother and sister they would simply have to agree to disagree...............bro Frank

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docs Dec 17, 2017

TMK,

The problem with this type of view I think is that the final time of trouble which Daniel spoke of (Daniel 12:1) and Jesus spoke of (Matt 24:21) is in close proximity of time to the resurrection. Jesus in Matthew 24:21 was making reference to Daniel 12:1 - a time of distress and tribulation such as has never occurred. Then Daniel 12:2, the very next verse, speaks of the resurrection - many that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awaken. The tribulation that ends the age is in close time proximity to the resurrection that signals the end of the age.

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docs Dec 17, 2017

I agree appolus. It's a little late and I was thinking I may found a little brusque. So I hear you.

I just have a hard time understanding how a literal AC can walk into each believer if believers are the temple bring referred to. How can a literal AC walk into the new birth and new man in Christ within each of us? That has always been my question on this issue.

Thanks.

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