Victory over a bad temper

From Andrew murrayYou ask, "Why is it, that for all these years I have been fighting with my temper, and can not conquer it?" It is because you have been fighting with the temper, and you have not been fighting with the root of the temper. You have not seen that it is all because you are in the carnal state, and not properly given up to the Spirit of God. It may be that you never were taught it; that you never saw it in God's Word; or that you never believed it. But there it is; the truth of God remains unchangeable. Jesus Christ can give us the victory over sin, and can keep us from actual transgression. I am telling you when the Holy Spirit comes not only with His power for service as a gift, but when He comes in Divine grace to fill the heart, there is victory over sin; power not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. When you see a mark of the carnal state not only in unlovingness, self-consciousness and bitterness, but in so many other sins. How much worldliness, how much ambition among men, how much seeking for the honor that comes from man—all the fruit of the carnal life—to be found in the midst of Christian activity! Let us remember that the carnal state is a state of continual sinning and failure, and God wants us not only to make confession of individual sins, but to come to the acknowledgment that they are the sign that we are not living a healthy life, we are yet carnal.

You ask, "Why is it, that for all these years I have been fighting with my temper, and can not conquer it?" It is because you have been fighting with the temper, and you have not been fighting with the root of the temper. You have not seen that it is all because you are in the carnal state, and not properly given up to the Spirit of God.Really? Is 'temper' only because a person is not submitted to the Spirit of God? And whatever the cause, what are the practicalities of being relieved of a bad temper?

Lets say a person has a real problem with their temper. They are born again but find that this temper keeps popping up from time to time and getting them in trouble even with all their attempts to control it. Mark 7:20-23, "And Jesus said, That which comes out of the man, is that which defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."This temper is a heart problem and exists because it is not submitted to the Spirit of God Correctly.The point is that no one can control any of these sins. This would be like trying to keep a "lid" on it. Sooner or later the "lid" will blow and the anger that is in the heart will come out. You will never be free of the temper by attempting to suppress it.When the heart is truly submitted to God and is cleansed, this no longer happens. Even when this person is placed in a circumstance where in the past his "lid" would have blown off and his temper would come rushing out, nothing happens at all. He no longer has to attempt to keep a “Lid” or control any temper because it has been cleansed by the Holy Spirit and he is experiencing true freedom from it.

Hi freecd,Please give me a little leeway here. I did have a bad temper, and it did take years to get to the root of (as Andrew Murray calls it) but I would dispute that it was a simple matter of the carnal. I am not making an exception for myself. I am disagreeing with such a simplistic offering, as there are many more people with a temper, who would have it successfully controlled by submission to the Spirit of God - at least, in the way that that sentence reads, 9which I quoted), it falls short, imho.When the heart is truly submitted to God and is cleansed, this no longer happens. Even when this person is placed in a circumstance where in the past his "lid" would have blown off and his temper would come rushing out, nothing happens at all. He no longer has to attempt to keep a “Lid” or control any temper because it has been cleansed by the Holy Spirit and he is experiencing true freedom from it.Ah! Now you have changed the terms. You have introduced 'and' and 'cleansed' (top line of my quote of you). This changes the exhortation somewhat. Even you don't really agree with Andrew Murray, according to your own terms (with which I can agree, inasfaras they go).Also, I notice you quote a verse from Jesus which does not mention 'bad temper', or even, anger. I wonder why you would choose that to support your thesis?

Can I just add, I believe anger and temper are related though not necessarily the same and not necessarily easy to separate, if temper is to do with mood. However, this is a really useful topic and worth pursuing. Please don't think I'm being contentious about the topic. Nor am I bent on forcing everyone down the same path. I am keen for Christians to understand anger and deal with inappropriate anger, including bad temper and anger which is directed an inappropriate object eg an innocent bystander.

Can a person be carnal and spiritual at the same time?Does not anger proceed from an unclean (not fully submitted) heart as the other sins stated by Jesus in the verse I gave?Gal. 5;16, "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that you cannot do the things that you would. But if you are led of the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." Here is the promise. When we are led by the Spirit we will NOT fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Can a peron be carnal and spiritual at the same time?Yes. That is the whole point of walking and living in the Spirit - to cultivate the spiritual life and to one way and another, do away with the flesh life. Remember also, as one has pointed out in another thread here, the Corinthians were accused of being carnal Christians, but, they were also receiving guidance on the best use of the gifts of the Spirit in church gatherings.... this is carnal? No! What they were doing in other areas of their lives was carnal.1 Peter 41 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; I'm not making a case for Christians being bad tempered as a way of life. What I'd like is for legitimate causes of bad temper and anger to be addressed, pretty much the way God can be angry and either change His mind (repent) or carry out a promised, righteous judgement.Does not anger proceed from a unclean (not fully submitted) heart as the other sins stated by Jesus in the verse I gave?Maybe, but, what of the Christian who has a new heart and continues to have problems with anger? I am suggesting that there can be reasons for anger which are not because a person is not right with God. Ephesians 64 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Coloss 321 Fathers, provoke not your children [to anger], lest they be discouraged.

Lets take a step back. It is very simple. When a person is abiding correctly in Christ, they will not sin. If sin does take place, then it is a result of imperfect abiding in Christ at that time.1 John 3:5-6, "And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins; and in Him is no sin.Whosoever abides in Him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth has not seen him, neither known him".

When a person is abiding correctly in Christ, they will not sin.So, are you saying it is ok to be angry sometimes?

Col. 3:1-8, "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth."Eph. 4;22-31, "That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. "Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice."

Be ye angry, and sin notI am not saying it is ok to excuse the outworking of anger, or, to suggest because anger is a normal response to certain kinds of provokation, therefore, for instance, provokation is ok as long as it doesn't push the other person's anger beyond what they can contain.Both in this and in the exhortation to fathers not to provoke their children to anger, it appears that the response of 'my anger is now aroused', (in the face of provokation), is a normal one. I wish to draw your attention to this.

Yes I am speaking from a "Trust leading to Rest" position that the Lord has called all of his saints to come to, which is His work in us by Faith.Resting in God is based on His irrevocable promise to deliver His people from the dominion of sin - through the power of the Holy Ghost! Resting does away with all of our puny efforts to please God through our flesh. It is the end of all our striving to overcome sin, whether through determination, strength, reasoning or any other works of the flesh. In short, resting takes the pressure off of us - and places it all on Him!

Brothers,You are quite right to carry on explaining what you find in scripture on this matter. I too have done a Bible study on anger, and cannot disagree with most of what you've said. If you look back at all my posts, you'll see that at no time have I suggested the scripture is wrong.Anger unchecked and not brought under the Spirit of God's control leads to sinJoshua, I agree completely. However, I maintain it is not wrong in principle (ie sinful) for a Christian to experience anger. The ability to be angry is one of God's attributes. Therefore, there are times when it is ok for those in His image, to feel anger. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that anger against sin can be very healing, if it is appropriately directed.A Christian who is very angry is not necessarily being angry without a cause. This is another thing to consider.I did look up a Strong's definitions version yesterday and noticed that wrath and anger are different. And there is a word which has more to do with temper in the sense of usual disposition (apologies to scholars - this is my take on it) (when it would be wrong).