Sin

The first mention of sin in the Bible is in connection with what Cain did.

God said to Cain:

Gen. 4:7 ”“ "And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

This is what Cain did:

Gen. 4:2-3 - Cain was a tiller of the ground. So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.

Question:

What is bad about what Cain did?

Hi Jade,

It may be the first time the word sin is used but not the first time sin was committed.

As we know, it goes back to the sin of Adam and Eve, transgression of God's command, inspired by the spirit of Pride and Rebellion from satan.

Cain did wrong by not doing what was right.
We can conclude, reading between the lines, as it were, that both Abel and Cain knew what God required but only Abel's heart was right and only he brought an offering acceptable to God.

Blessings,

Hi William,

Agree. It was through Adam that "sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned” (Rom. 5:12).

Adam’s sin that brought sin into the world and death through sin to all men was this:

He ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Gen. 2:16-17 - The LORD God commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."

Rom. 6:23 ”“ For the wages of sin is death…

I am thinking that the fountainhead of all sin is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and out of this flow every other deed of sin. And the first deed of sin to flow out from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is to give to God what God cannot accept, illustrated by Cain’s offering.

I am also thinking that Cain wanted to be accepted by God but his way was wrong.

Prov. 16:25 - There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

What do you say?

Blessings

"I did it my way" is the ultimate statement and description of sin.

Hi Jade,

Everything you wrote makes complete sense.

Eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil always makes me think of the first sinner, the devil, who wanted to exalt himself to be god.
It is the same spirit who inspires fortune telling etc. where we want to know the future. We want to be like God.

Instead of loving Him, glorifying Him, trusting Him and obeying Him we want to be Him.

This is the root of sin

Agreed Todd,

I I I. I am the captain of my own ship, the master of my own destiny etc.

Sister Jade asked;
"This is what Cain did:

Gen. 4:2-3 - Cain was a tiller of the ground. So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.

Question:

What is bad about what Cain did?”

Sweet sister your question (in my understanding) illustrates the "first fruits” of sin, and as such is a very important topic to consider and dig into for it is the pattern of all that seeks to serve God but in an unacceptable way.

After an extended time of prayerful consideration some time ago it became quite clear what the reason is for God rejecting Cain’s offerings.
Cain offered the "fruits” of his own works...
whereas Able took what the Lord had provided and offered from that portion.
This (for me) illustrates quite well the Atonement, where God Himself provided the offering in Jesus- whereas the Pharisees (like Cain) offered the fruits of their religious works. When looked at through the lens of righteousness as a requirement; one is offering what God has provided (His righteousness) while the other is offering the work of their own hand (self-righteousness).

This seems, to me, to be one of the major patterns addressed throughout the whole of scripture and especially in Paul’s epistles.
At the end of the day, the only acceptable things we have to offer God is what He has given us but all too often we offer what "we have done” which is really just self-righteousness or pride...

Hope that helps you in your studies:)

BranchVINE,

The book of Hebrews actually clarifies this for us:

Hebrews 11:4--By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

Now Cain lacked faith, and his offering was rejected. Now jealousy, envy, and murder were crouching at the door, waiting to spring upon him if he wasn't ready. And sure enough, it did.

I don't think it is right to say that just because it was the fruit of the ground that it was unacceptable. After all, these types of offerings were acceptable in the OT Law. The issue was faith, of which, unlike his brother Abel, he had none.

The only thing I can add is, most pastors today, do not preach enough on sin, that's probably why most folks don't understand a lot about sin.

Gen 3 :17. Gen 5:29. I wonder if maybe offering God something from the ground that was cursed, the 2nd ref being toil denoting works?

What do you guys think??

I have pondered this off and on over the years and it is clear from scripture that they both had a relationship with God or at least some degree of conversation I would imagine on a regular basis.

God said "ye shall not eat of the tree". The sin from the outset lay in just eating of the tree let alone what the tree might produce in us.

To me, human autonomy, "ye shall be like gods" was the motivating factor. There is in humanity the innate desire to be like his creator but this snake-invite had some twists to it.

Tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Knowing right, wrong, good, evil...all sounds like a tree where one goes to obtain a knowledge of these things. A tree of morality.
Yet, forbidden of God. Why? Because through hindsight learning, we found out what that serpent had in mind.
First, you had to be immoral=disobey God before you partake of a tree giving knowledge of morality.
Secondly, You had to leave God out of the equation like Adam and Eve did. They didn't call out to God, didn't pray, didn't say "hey, lets find out why God's holding back, lets meet up again with him?"
Nope, just straight to the tree autonomously, and of course Adam was in arms-reach of Eve and partook himself.

What happened? They understood in a measure what happened, a sense of guilt, hiding, their human autonomy at first innocent, now guilt-laden.

The way I see it, sin is leaving God out of our lives, seeking after wisdom, knowledge, good, evil, right and wrong and determining by our own understanding how we should thus live.

The knowledge of good and evil is to come by way of the revelation of God, not by self seeking what appears to be good to eat and then partaking of it.

As to Cain's offering, God gave both seed to the sower and bread to the eater and all the beasts of the field.
Yet, Abel's was better...and I think Havok nailed it there.
Faith...but I would not rule out the thought that without blood there is no remission for sin. Grain offerings are not sin-offerings per-se.

I see Eve as being beguiled according to scripture, but Adam sinned, I believe it came down to his love for Eve over his love for God, along with obedience. But I am very simplistic in my understanding of this account. I have read some pretty head scratching things about it from a great many different authors but I still tend toward simple. I can see the faith aspect in as much as they could not eat of it in faith so what is not of faith is sin but I really think it goes deeper than that

Thank you all for your posts! Much food for thought. Let me think about all you have written and reply asap.

Blessings

Yes Amen, faith is a primary factor but faith in "who” is the question?

Technically everything we do is an act of faith in something or someone but only those things which are done in faith towards God are acceptable to Him.

For example, I have faith that my home will support my family and keep them warm and dry, otherwise I wouldn’t subject them to it-
However that is not necessarily faith towards God...
The same could said for doctors, financial institutions, etc... but just because I believe the doctor can heal my sickness and go in faith to receive said healing doesn’t mean that I am necessarily believing in and acting in faith towards God.

So what is the object of faith?
(For me) Abel believed all that was needed was already provided by God and he acted in faith according to this belief-
Cain on the other hand believed his own efforts would be accounted as righteous and acted in faith according to this belief-

One had faith in God
The other had faith in his own works...

In my reading of scripture (which may be flawed as I can only walk in the light I have at any given time) every time the "act in faith” clause is present it is understood that this is faith in or towards God. Where as the Pharisees acted in faith also, but their faith was in the works they performed to make them righteous and were outright rebuked for it.

Abraham is another example as he offered what was provided by God (Isaac) and not what was made by his own efforts (Ishmael)...

The way you phrased faith and framed it was very enlightening and great food for thought, I will be chewing on that as well as what others have said on this thread for sometime. Reread it a few times more I am sure. God bless

Todd wrote:
"I did it my way" is the ultimate statement and description of sin."

Yes.

Isaiah 55:8-9 ”“
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD.
"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways
And My thoughts than your thoughts.”

Jer. 10:23 ”“
I know, O LORD, that a man's way is not in himself,
Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps.

Ps. 37:23 ”“
The steps of a man are established by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.

Hi William,

You said:
"Instead of loving Him, glorifying Him, trusting Him and obeying Him we want to be Him.
"This is the root of sin.”

Agree.

Ex. 20:3 - You shall have no other gods before Me.
(NLT: You must not have any other god but me.)

Never self/"I" as god, definitely!

Fletcher wrote:

"Cain offered the "fruits” of his own works...
whereas Able took what the Lord had provided and offered from that portion.
This (for me) illustrates quite well the Atonement, where God Himself provided the offering in Jesus- whereas the Pharisees (like Cain) offered the fruits of their religious works. When looked at through the lens of righteousness as a requirement; one is offering what God has provided (His righteousness) while the other is offering the work of their own hand (self-righteousness).
"This seems, to me, to be one of the major patterns addressed throughout the whole of scripture and especially in Paul’s epistles.
At the end of the day, the only acceptable things we have to offer God is what He has given us but all too often we offer what "we have done” which is really just self-righteousness or pride...”

AMEN!

This is a gem!

Thank you, brother Fletcher.

havok20x wrote:
"The book of Hebrews actually clarifies this for us:
"Hebrews 11:4--By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.”

Agree. Faith is the secret.

Fletcher wrote:
"So what is the object of faith?
"(For me) Abel believed all that was needed was already provided by God and he acted in faith according to this belief-
Cain on the other hand believed his own efforts would be accounted as righteous and acted in faith according to this belief-
"One had faith in God
The other had faith in his own works...”

Yes!

Hi Marvin,

You wrote:
"God said ‘ye shall not eat of the tree’. The sin from the outset lay in just eating of the tree let alone what the tree might produce in us.”

You are taking words away from what God said.

God said:
"… from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, ***** for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die*****."

God was not after robotic obedience or God could have just created robots and He would be spared the countless heartaches that errant mankind has given Him since creation.

God created man as intelligent beings and gave man a will that man may align his will with God’s will which is a supremely good will.

Jer. 29:11 - For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.’

God’s real concern is that man should choose the right way and have life and not death.

Ezekiel 18:32 - "For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone who dies," declares the Lord GOD.