woman

As for as I know, I believe Lucifer is the only angel I've ever heard of before Adam and Eve..I'm guessing Lucifer was male, but who knows.

There are no male or female angels or beings in heaven. God is a spirit and not a person.

We will know as we are known but in Matt 22:30, Jesus said, In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage. Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.

God bless,
Lisa

"There are no male or female angels or beings in heaven."

But they're on earth..."Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.” -Hebrews 13:2

But why then does Jesus call God "Father"? And Jesus is called "Son".

Plus, Jesus is in a physical, resurrected body in heaven right at this moment.

by mrbillpro
"There are no male or female angels or beings in heaven."

But they're on earth..."Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it.” -Hebrews 13:2

As per your quote, angels do take on human form at times.

by drifter
But why then does Jesus call God "Father"? And Jesus is called "Son".

Plus, Jesus is in a physical, resurrected body in heaven right at this moment.

I, personally, don't think we'll have families in heaven; but I could be wrong! I think we will ALL be the family of God, so there will be no need to break off into individual families but that could just be me. (I'm not going to argue about it, it's just where I'm at, at this place and time in my belief!)

And just to throw this into the mix... Isn't Ruach Elohim a feminine noun in Gen? :)

God bless,
Lisa

I think maybe someone should ask some of these folks that claim they’ve been to heaven and back, I bet they can tell you.

Being "as the angels" may refer not to form but function.
Angels do not pro create but exist for the worship of God alone.

Jesus is a male so He will be in male form.

Angels took on the guise as males (eg Gabriel and 2 of the 3 visitors of Abraham(one of them was Jesus himself).

In heaven presumably angels will have their angelic forms of seraphim and cherubim which I doubt will appear as male or female.

I don't think we can argue from anything other than what scripture says. Scripture only says that man was created male and female. Other than that, scripture is silent.

Anything about the gender of angels is only opinion and conjecture.

My own opinion and conjecture...genderless. Neither male nor female.

Genesis 1:27

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

What this means to me is that the female image of God was already in the Trinity, represented by the Holy Spirit.

Like Lisa, not into debating this ..... we will see in Heaven.
:)

my wife who loves cats...We have one. She asked, Do you think Gizmo will be in heaven?

I said...If a man is told he is in heaven but finds out there is a cat there...Is it really heaven?

She was upset at my response, I can't imaging why?

Just some more deep theological conjectures.

Hey, I have a cat named Gizmo too... :-) But I'm one man who loves cats, they're a whole lot less maintenance... :-)

Cats-as horrible as they are, despicable creatures that define selfishness at every meow...at least they didn't eat of that tree like EVE DID!.

Oh wait, Adam ate too; but, 'the woman thou gavest me, she did bend my arm and force me to eat" Marvin's unauthorized version last page last verse.

Ok, running and hiding, I will be back sometime in 20...something

Felt humorous today...I don't hear any laughing 'crickets'

Genesis 1:27
============
God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Here are some thoughts:

(1)

Eve was taken out of Adam (Gen. 2:21-22). Therefore Adam at his creation was surely created with both "male” and "female” parts. Then Adam was divided. The "female” part was taken out of Adam and became Eve.

(2)

Perhaps our concept of "woman” is not exactly the same as the biblical view?

Gen. 2:23 ”“
The man said, "This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man."

(3)

What was taken out of Adam?

Firstly,
The woman was Adam’s "helper” (Gen. 2:18).
I suggest the "helper” or what Paul called the "flesh” was taken out of Adam and transferred to Eve. At that time the "flesh” or "helper” was still dormant in Adam.

Secondly,
Adam was created to have numerous children.
Gen. 2:8 ”“ "……Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth……”
That birthing function was transferred to the woman.
Eve became the "mother of all the living” (Gen. 3:20).

So God took these 2 parts out of Adam. Thus Adam became the "male” part which is the "head”. And Eve became the "female” part which is the head’s "body” housing the "flesh” or "helper” and also all of Adam’s descendants/children.

I suggest that God who knew the end from the beginning knew that Adam would sin and this division was essential to God’s plan for man’s salvation.

(4)

Then Eve was joined back to Adam and became one with him, "bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh” (Gen. 2:23). There is now "ONE” entity but with "TWO” distinct and separable parts.

(5)

Then Satan tempted Eve (man’s "helper”/”flesh”) and Eve was enticed into eating the fruit from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. She offered the fruit to Adam (the head) and he ate it. Thus both the head and the body ("flesh” & children) became totally corrupted and hostile toward God and God’s will (Rom. 8:7-8).

(6)

To save us God prepared a "body” for Christ.

Heb. 10:5-7 (NASB) ”“ "……BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME……BEHOLD, I HAVE COME……TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.”

Christ came to be the "body” wholly given up to do the will of God

Christ had no connection with Adam but was conceived by the Holy Spirit and though Eve (Luke 1:35).

Through Eve Jesus became the body of flesh that through death He might free us from the bondage of flesh, from our body of death.

Heb. 2:14 -- Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, and might free those who through fear of death were subject to slavery all their lives.

When Christ was on earth He had an earthly body of flesh but His HEAD was not sinful Adam but God in heaven. And He also had the Holy Spirit in Him. In His earthly life He could choose to live by the flesh or by the Spirit. But all through His earthly life He denied His fleshly self and lived by the Spirit and was totally dependent on and surrendered to God the Father as His head.

John 17:21 - ……You, Father, are in Me and I in You…..

John 5:19 -- Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.”

John 8:28 -- "… I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.”

John 10:32 -- Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father”

John 12:49 -- For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

John 14:10 -- Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works……

(7)

At the cross, the body of flesh was broken and put to death.

Luke 22:19 -- And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me."

1 Cor. 11:26 -- For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.

Matt. 27:50-51 -- And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split.

Heb. 10:19-21 -- Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh……

His body was broken for us. The veil of flesh was torn. The body He had prepared and now gives to us is the body in which "flesh” had been broken and crucified so that sin can no longer rule over us.

And at the cross, fleshly men of sin were crucified with Christ.

Gal. 2:20 -- I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live……

(8)

After the resurrection, at Pentecost, a new spiritual body came into being. It is the Body of Christ.

The old body of Adam (represented by Eve) housed all the descendants/children of earthly and fallen Adam.
Gen.3:20 -- Now the man called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living.

The new Body of Christ is the New Jerusalem above who is the mother of us all. The Body of Christ houses all holy believers in Christ and children of God.

Rev. 21:9-10 -- Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb." And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God……

Gal. 4:26 (KJV) -- But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Heb. 12:22 -- But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, and to the assembly, to the church of the firstborn having been enrolled in the heavens……

Eph. 2:22-23 -- And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

Heb. 2:13 -- Behold, I and the children God has given me

The old body of fallen Adam was the dwelling place of sinful "flesh” and every member in the old body of fallen Adam was indwelt by sinful "flesh”.
Rom. 7:14 -- but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.

Every believer is baptized/ immersed into the Body of Christ which is dwelling place of the Holy Spirit. Every believer is the temple in which the Holy Spirit dwells. Every believer is a member of Christ.

1 Cor. 12:13 -- For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Cor. 6:19 -- Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?

1 Cor. 6:15 -- Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?

Gal. 3:26-27 -- For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

The head of the fallen old creation (represented by Adam) was done away, never more to be in all eternity.

The body of the fallen old creation (represented by Eve) was regenerated through death and a new birth and becomes the new Body of Christ in the new creation whose Head is the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Head, the Lord Jesus, is the "male” part. The Body, the church, is the "female” part. And within the Body as regards to each member:

Gal. 3:28 -- There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

**********

These are just some budding thoughts. Can anyone see any error in anything I have written? I know some things I have said may need correction. I definitely need to have more understanding and more light.

**********

Another thing:

Sure, Eve gave Adam the forbidden fruit.
But all that Eve was, all that made her what she was that made her do what she did……Adam gave all that to her! For she was taken out of Adam!
So Eve could have told Adam, "It is all entirely your fault!”
(haha)

On a more serious note:

Adam said to God:

Gen. 3:12 -- The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me from the tree, and I ate."

I think the deeper truth in this is that the first man Adam was created "earthly” (1 Cor. 15:47-48). He was created with "flesh” in him and that through this "flesh” he could choose to have a self-life and live independently of God.

So why did God create Adam with this capacity to sin?

Rom. 11:33-34 (NLT) -- Oh, how great are God's riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways! For who can know the LORD's thoughts? Who knows enough to give him advice?

In my view, the great lesson is that only God, never man, is ever to be head. And the fountain of life must be in God alone, never in man. And the fruitful life can only be lived in union with God in Christ, never independently by man himself or through another man.

John 15:5 -- I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

John 14:20 -- In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Hi Jade:

Well, I see a few things, but mostly just some things you probably forgot, missed or other.

Because Jesus lineage is traceable to Adam via Mary, Jesus needed to be born 'from a woman', luke 3:38
This doesn't change anything per-se, just a change of wording maybe.

A division that should be understood that scripture makes and you seem to have conflated.
Flesh=body
Fleshly minded person=body
Our bodies are not sinful, meaning our eyes, nose, mouth, feet etc are not in and of themselves sinful.
The 'flesh' as Paul uses it in Romans and elsewhere depicts the 'mind set upon earthly things', a carnal minded man=a fleshly man. The distinction needs to be kept clear where the human body is not sinful, the unregenerate human heart/mind is sinful, this is what is put to death on the cross, crucified with Christ etc.
The body of Christ crucified, is understood as his human body, which did no sin, nor was it in anyway intrinsically sinful, yet his body was the vessel that must be sacrificed, his human soul must travail, his mind and emotions feel everything inherent of human beings.

This is point is probably just some differences in articulation.
Adam didn't have male and female parts that needed dividing. God removed a rib and made 'another man with a womb= womb-man or woman.' There was in the woman nothing denoting her as 'fleshly' over against Adam being the head.

The body analogy used by Paul for the Body of Christ, is understood metaphorically, as well as the Church being understood as the New Jerusalem, A foursquare city adorned.

I don't see that youre off base, what I do see are some pot-holes that can mix your metaphors thereby creating confusing analogies for yourself and others.

The one thing you do, is work out your thoughts and share them here. That is a good thing

If I misunderstood something feel free to correct.

Hi Marvin,

Much appreciate your response. Am busy. Will reply asap when free.

Blessings.

Marvin,

You brought up a number of things in your response.

Let us deal with them, one thing at a time.

First,

You said that woman is "another man with a womb - womb man or woman".

Is that from your head or the Bible?

Midnight here now....good night.

QUOTE:
"Therefore Adam at his creation was surely created with both "male” and "female” parts. Then Adam was divided. The "female” part was taken out of Adam and became Eve."

I do not care to participate in the splitting of hairs in theological discussions but felt I needed to comment on this statement.

Never in my 70 years of life have I ever heard this concept shared: Adam had female parts and God removed them when he made Eve.

My Bible tells me God made Adam out of the dust of the ground. Period. God took a RIB out of Adam and made a woman. Period. No where do I read where Adam's body included female parts also. If one were to believe this one could also say the dust contained body parts of a human and God just put them together. I do not read this idea in the scriptures anywhere.

Sandra