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Hi Guys/Girls,Women and Men Abortion debate I need a hand quickly!!

S
staff Jan 29, 2018

Hi All,
I am trying to combat Abortion being voted in and I need a hand.
1:What can I say when people say it should be a womens decision only??
2 What can I say if a woman becomes pregnant if they get raped?
3 What can I say if a women says the baby has or may have a terminal illness?
Answer as good as you can and the answer may or may not include our belief in God .Thanks everyone who believe God has given you something to say on those three questions or others ur staff

T
TMK Jan 29, 2018

I believe the "problematic” scenarios (rape, incest, serious health issues of child) are so rare as to be close to being red herrings. The vast majority of abortions are not for these reasons.

So the only relevant point is point 1: " it’s my body therefore my decision.”

This begs the question of where the line can/must be drawn. Obviously a mother cannot harm her child after it is born. So the question as always is "when is a child a child?” There is a plethora of scientific data that would indicate this occurs at conception.

Since this is the case, we must err on the side of caution. If human life begins at conception then snuffing it out is murder. Because the risk of harm is so great, if there is debate about when life begins we are not free to abort a fetus because we disagree about when life begins, because what if we are wrong?

D
drifter Jan 29, 2018

1. It's not her body, it's the baby's body; it has a unique set of genetic information all its own. The baby is innocent and depends on her to take care of it, not exterminate it.

2. Kill the rapist, not the innocent child. If the woman is uncomfortable of her "reminder" of the awful thing that happened to her (rape) she can always put the child up for adoption.

3. Let God make the decision of who lives and dies. The baby might just survive that terminal illness.

Hope that helps staff. God bless brother.

L
leyoung Jan 29, 2018

Psalm 139

Stories of children of rape are numerous. Look up.
One is Ethel Waters the woman who broke the black stereotypes in film and made the hymn 'His Eye is on the Sparrow' famous singing at Billy Graham crusades. Her mother was raped at 13 years of age and she was raised by her grandmother.
There are more current testimonies if you look them up.

The ultrasound images change minds.

But ultimately it is God who changes minds and hearts so keep sharing the gospel!!!!! And pray, even out loud!!!!

Sis Les

S
staff Jan 29, 2018

Hi all and thanks
These are the points that are been thrown around.Of course they are red herrings which are lies agreed but these are the ones im having difficulty with.I am hoping to make a difference...urs staff

L
Lysa Jan 29, 2018

by staff
These are the points that are been thrown around.Of course they are red herrings which are lies agreed but these are the ones im having difficulty with.I am hoping to make a difference.

They are red herrings because it's a "heart" issue.

It's the same to get someone to stop drinking and driving. They may agree with you but when push comes to shove, will they actually call an uber?

There are many things that influence a woman having sex outside of marriage. An axe needs to be taken to the root of the matter or you'll always be arguing red herrings.

God bless,
Lisa

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MrBillPro Jan 29, 2018

James Robison was also born from a mom that was raped, he mentions it quit frequently on his tv show.

S
staff Jan 29, 2018

Hi Lisa,
you are spot on with ur post.I guess where im at is trying to dispel the falsehoods with truths before our referendum is passed this Summer,Ultimately its only a band aid but its needed right now,thanks urs staff

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Gloryandgrace Jan 30, 2018

https://youtu.be/ecqUpowyahQ

Scott is excellent and is well able to help you answer questions. Take copious notes from the debate and you will be well equipped.

Also consider this too.

https://youtu.be/mf6tSW-BNLA

These will take you way beyond pro life slogans or the silliness of pro-choice ad homs. Watch Scott carefully, taking notes.

S
staff Jan 30, 2018

GloryandGrace,Thats Brilliant thanks staff

G
ginnyrose Feb 1, 2018

Staff,

I have worked as a counselor at a Crises Pregnancy Center for many years. I have not met any pro-abort female who did not instinctively know abortion was wrong, that it is killing - yes, they have told me so. So, then, I think you will need to think outside the box, asking the Holy Spirit to lead you in conversations with these people because for the most part their mind is already made up. You are in a spiritual war when it comes to the abortion issue. People like it because they can be "sleeping around" and if conception occurs you just abort.

Of course, there are married females that abort because they feel overwhelmed or just plain do not want to be bothered. Now, you could tell them if they proceed with their abortion the reality is that this act will precipitate divorce in the future.

If you really want to be educated about abortion I recommend the video "Massacre of Innocence" - it can be seen on YouTube.

Rabbit trail, OK? The bigger problem in the USA is that people are fornicating, committing adultery with little to no restraint and then conceiving. THIS is the larger issue. As time marches on, singles are keeping their babies, raising them without a dad in the house. These children grow up getting involved in all kinds of wickedness, duplicating their parents sins. This is where the biggest battle is.

Check out these series of videos on YouTube: Pam Stenzel. she is a promoter for chastity.

Best wishes to you.

Sandra

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ginnyrose Feb 1, 2018

In thinking more about your question, let me share an incident that happened to me while at CPC.

A female called, wanting to know where the closest AB clinic was and as a policy we would never share that info in this context. In our discussion I picked up that she would never come in so we can talk to her - this is one thing you learn after a while. After perceiving this I went into counseling mode. What follows here is the gist and condensed version of our conversation.

"You married? Have any children?"
"Yes, madam. Got four. I did a HPT and it came back positive. I just do not want any more children."
"What about your husband?"
"Oh, he is not around much, he is military, does not care much about family..."
"So, you think an abortion will solve your problem?"
"Yes, madam. I do NOT want this baby. I want an abortion!"
"Do you know what an abortion is?"
"Yes, it is killing a baby!"
"Do you believe in God?"
"I do."
"What do you think God would say about killing your baby?"
"I think He would understand because of what I am going through."
"Well, you know it is sin..."
"I know it is, but I plan to have an abortion and then ask God to forgive me."
"What makes you think he will forgive you?"
"My situation is so bad I think he would understand."
"You have other children, right?"
"Yes, madam."
"Why don't you just kill one of those instead?"
"NO WAY WOULD I EVER KILL ANY OF MY CHILDREN!"
"What is the difference? Both are alive - the fetus and your living children...no difference."

Don't know what happened to her, never heard from her since. But just thought I would share this for your enlightenment.

Sandra


C
ccchhhrrriiisss Feb 1, 2018

Wow, Sandra! That is a thought-provoking conversation!

I once read that people who are kidnapped should let their captor know their name, personality and other things that will effectively increase empathy in their captor. The problem with abortion is that the mother doesn't have enough empathy for her child that she would choose to kill that child prior to birth. It ultimately haunts them -- despite attempts to ignore of justify it.

I read some testimony from guards at Nazi concentration camps who said that this was known to their superiors. So, the concentration camps attempted to "dehumanize" the victims through various means. They were numbers instead of names. They were shaved and dressed in like clothing. They were prevented from initiating conversations with the guards.

Yet, some of the guards still were haunted. Some learned names of the victims. Some could recognize faces or were struck by acts of kindness from the victims.

Empathy is key in this matter. I often find that it is effective to try and get the pro-abortion individuals to see the baby as alive and human. The consideration of a name is also effective in developing that sense of love and empathy for the child. I also have found it helpful to try and get the mother to put herself in the place of that child.

In one instance, I explained to a woman that I never knew my biological father because he and my mother divorced prior to my birth. He was trying to force my mother to have an abortion. She refused. So, he tried to "induce" one of his own (in a violent rage). I was my father's unwanted child -- born to a young mother who didn't have much money. I explain that I am grateful that my mother loved me enough to let me live despite having a "legal" right to kill me.

When people see others around them as the other side of such a "choice," then I've noticed that it humanizes that child in their eyes. I think that your conversation may have had a similar effect.

G
ginnyrose Feb 1, 2018

Chris,

I was reluctant to use the question of "why not kill one of your living children instead?" on her because I think it is awful...Yet, the comparison is strikingly the same. We volunteers would make this comparison a lot when we discussed this issue amongst ourselves but never framed it in this manner when talking to a pro-abort female.

There was some discussion concerning the theological aspects of sinning against better knowledge but do not distinctly recall how that part of the conversation went with this female because we did use this with others.

Loved your testimony, Chris. Thanks for sharing...in all the years you have been on here I do not recall you ever sharing this; what you said about empathy is very insightful - glad you explained the importance of sharing personal info with your captor.

Sandra

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