Is the gospel spread more effectively in countries where there are good rulers and government in place or in nations where there are evil rulers and the people are subjected to an evil and oppressive government, or does it even make a difference what kind of government is in place?
Derek Prince has an interesting view on this question and how the prayers of the saints can shift and change nations.
"...God has made us a kingdom of priests and as such, our responsibility is to rule by prayer. The Bible reveals that this world is not really ruled by kings, presidents, governors, dictators; they only seek to rule. The people who really rule the world are those who know how to pray."
And that's only the beginning!!! Excellent teaching series.
Lisa, I am glad to hear that you were blessed by Derek Prince’s teaching.
An excellent book on how believers can "Rule by Prayer”
is "Rees Howells Intercessor”.
Quote "The people who really rule the world are those who know how to pray."
Let's just think about this statement and ask is it really true? On the surface it sounds good and what we want to hear. Now I know it depends entirely upon how you go on to define what this 'praying' involves, but the statement in itself puts far too much emphasis on 'us' as being 'in control'
Surely it is God who is ultimately in control, not us! We have to beware our prideful flesh that would so easily rise up and decide what we think should happen in the circumstances of this world and then 'tell God' in prayer what He has to do to enact 'our rule'.
We are to pray 'Your (God's) will be done on earth'
Now when we do that we are His servants seeking to implement His rule over the earth, not our rule.
BTW I am very familiar with Derek Price's ministry (being a Brit) and have in past years sat in a few of his meetings.
But Jesus himself told us to tell that mountain to move and it will move if we do so in faith.
The Word of God says that we are kings and priests. So what do Kings do? Jesus Christ is the king of kings, so the only authority that we have is that which He has given to us, and we have been made to sit in heavenly places in Christ. The primary purpose of prayer is to bring the kingdom of God and the will of God Down from heaven to earth. God has chosen to
do this through the prayers of His people.
Brothers,
I think this will be a great subject to discuss and expand on.
What is the scope of our authority as believers,how does prayer influence or serve the purpose of God through us etc.
It is clearly not a simple matter or else a few simple prayers and faith filled confessions would have fixed the world already
Blessings
Brothers,
I think this will be a great subject to discuss and expand on.
What is the scope of our authority as believers,how does prayer influence or serve the purpose of God through us etc.
It is clearly not a simple matter or else a few simple prayers and faith filled confessions would have fixed the world already
Blessings
"I think this will be a great subject to discuss and expand on.
What is the scope of our authority as believers,how does prayer influence or serve the purpose of God through us etc."
Amen William!
There certainly is the misuse of authority in prayer within the Church, and this could be the result of the lack of knowledge of what areas that we have authority over, or attempting to use authority in situations that the Lord has not granted to us. But there is also within the Church the non use and exercise of the authority that the Lord has given to us in prayer within the Church, simply because there is a lack of understanding of that authority that the Lord has given to every believer.
The Word of God has much to say about the authority of the believer.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
I have not listened to the message, I will sometime later.
Princes and powers of darkness rule the world systems and they have ruled them since the fall.
Our wrestling in prayer effects their rule and effects the decisions human rulers make.
God rules both of these, our instructions are to pray, wrestle, intercede for entrance of God's kingdom and the suppression of Satan's kingdom.
Being led by the Spirit of God in what to pray for, how to pray, what to believe and what to resist in prayer form our 'wrestling' mode.
Prayer is always linked to obedience to 'act' as the Lord instructs.
A few things come into play.
1. The anointing of God moving you to prayer whereby your own heart is motivated to engage God.
2. The faith you have in God to hear and answer, at this stage, trite and romantic notions of prayer and intercession die away...you are left with what you truly believe and are willing to persevere as the Spirit moves you.
3. The wisdom to know that hindrances, interruptions, sickness, discouragement, family or work issues erupt and a myriad of other things will suddenly vie for dominance in your heart and mind.
4. Few if any will persevere with you unless you have joined an intercessory group...and so many of those are stumbling around at #2; you must know up front it will be a lonely road.
Try starting an intercessory group and rarely will you get past #3 and #4 finally takes out the remainder.
All of these things have happened to me repeatedly over the years, all of them the same with slight variations due to where I am in my walk with God.
I am not here in anyway seeking to discourage anyone from such prayer and faith, just be clear as glass to yourself listening to a rousing sermon on 'ruling by prayer' will die just a fast as the boring ones you forget unless you recognize you are going to war and your prayer life is the intended casualty.
Doesn’t authority come from the assuming of responsibility? That those who take on the responsibility (for a thing) will be imbued with the necessary authority to facilitate said role?
Finney, Ravenhill and others say as much in that they suggest the responsibility for a nation is laid at the feet of the pulpit and church... the problem being we (pulpit/church) don’t take the responsibility and therefore aren’t appropriating the authority.
As far as brother Marvin’s points... honestly how many of us really know how to "pray on the armor of God”?... and for those that do know, how many of us actually does it before entering into prayer?
When we are armored up, we appropriate the authority by an act of faith believing the word of God and our prayers are thereby effectual to the cause of Christ. These prayers are not those of supplication, rather they are prayers actualizing the will of God here on earth by appropriating the authority given us by the victory of Christ’s resurrection. In doing so we literally function as His body here on earth praying and prophesying by the power of His spirit.
When we don’t accept and act on this responsibility, the responsibility falls to the earthly rulers who in most cases are ill equipped to do battle in the spirit and as such employ devices of the flesh which itself is inadequate to the task- unfortunately (as we have observed) rather than the pulpit/church affecting the world, the world has affected the church/pulpit, where in most it is not the power of God relied upon but the schemes of man and the purpose isn’t perfecting the saints but recruiting new members. Two totally different objectives. One relies on pragmatism as it’s measure whilst the other is measured by Christ alone.
Bro.Marvin could you do a quick outline of the different kinds of prayer. We don’t really need the whole armor of God when we approach The Father for ,say, communion with Him. The armor is when we enter more of a warfare mode and then we are proclaiming in The heavenly realm? At what point do we just need to rest in Christ as we approach His throne of grace.?
Brother Miller.
I'll try and explain prayer as I understand it in scripture and as I've experienced it.
When it comes to the armor of God, that armor is in fact always put on daily, first thing in the morning.
But what is the armor of God? We know what Paul said as to the 'pieces' of armor we put on, but what is the actual substance of those 'pieces'?
Those pieces are as I understand them a combination of 1. The covenant promises of God, 2. the covenant commands of God, 3. our faith toward God, 4. our own experience in living under the commands of God and putting faith in the promises of God, 5. our own intimate knowledge of God through prayer, study, and teaching.
Yes, all of these things combined form our armor.
So when I wear the breast-plate of righteousness, I am wearing the covenant promise of "righteousness by faith" Rom 4. In wearing it, I learn to trust in that righteousness, given to me. In wearing it, I am tempted by Satan to take it off, or not put it on, or doubt as to its capacity to guard my heart and vitals from the sword-blows of my enemies. Since I am wearing this breast-plate I can have some assurance of safety in battle, I have confidence in what it will do for me, versus lacking such armor when in attack mode or while being attacked.
You see, that piece of armor is not only a doctrinal declaration, its a powerful aid when faith in its capabilities are experienced and victory is wrought. So, when I put on the breast-plate of righteousness, I am not simply asserting a doctrinal position, I am putting on the powerful covenant-promise capable of keeping me safe while I engage the world around me.
This same like-kind reality associates all the pieces of Gods armor to me. I know them scripturally, experientially, practically and as a living-faith-operation.
It is in this sense the authority of a believer is maximized. He goes beyond parroting a promise, he knows God's faithfulness to keep him and preserve him daily and the every-day skirmishes fit him for battles that are difficult, prolonged, lonely, and the 'seeing' of physical proof lacking.
This my brother is the norm of everyday godliness. This is the normative for those who seek to commune with God, pray for their respective families, jobs, friends and co-workers.
Intercessions teaches us that skillfulness in using the sword of the Spirit and the absolute necessity of carrying the shield of faith. Intercessions are impromptu as well as a time-given place and season for prayers; these are made in earnest to apprehend what God wants to give to us and the Church at large.
Prayer and supplication in the spirit, a kind of prayer devoted to a specific meeting ground. The meeting ground is not a building or a venue, its a 'place' where you will wrestle with Dark Princes, Powers, a genuine spiritual conflict occurs because you are dressed in the armor of God in order to persevere with 'all prayer', resisting these powers, calling upon God to reverse the influences and destruction these powers constantly inflict upon sinful humanity.
We wear our armor from the outset of the day and we never in fact take it off while we live.
Our rest, our joy and comfort is never due to a lack of conflict with the prince and powers, it is because there is not conflict between us and God.
One of Satan's chief aims for the believer is to keep him doubting and unsure about his peace with God. Satan seeks to stir up contention between us and God, fighting over God's decisions, angry because of something we suffered and another did not, or we lack something others have. If we are un-peaceful with God, walking into spiritual conflict will only intensify our God-conflict and we will be only a very short time resisting Satan.
The very point of God's armor given to us, is that we are at peace with God, Jesus Christ has perfected us, he has made us acceptable to God, and now we are indwelt by the Spirit of God. This basic truth is the foundation upon which we venture to believe God and put on the whole armor of God...and pray.
I was watching a John Ramirez video on youtube and he was raised to be a warlock and he got saved, started going to Times Square Church and was discipled by David Wilkerson.
In the video he talks about in the spiritual realm he knew who the principalities of certain streets in his neighborhood was and principalities over cities, principalities = demons.
This is the evil rulers that, I believe, that Derek Prince was talking about it. Jesus said, "I give YOU all power over the power of the enemy." And I also believe that entitles us to call those things which be not as though they were" (Rom 4:17).
God bless,
Lisa
In short, when it comes to the authority of the believer, this again is not 'just' doctrinal declaration. Authority is not earned by responsibility, it is not gained by way of progressing through the ranks of institutional Christianity.
Authority is the God given empowerment that comes from faith apprehending the word of God, then God directing your life where this authority demonstrates what the life of Jesus is and what power there is in God's kingdom where Jesus rules.
Authority and biblical knowledge should be directly proportional, but unfortunately they can also be counter-proportional; whereby the man refuses the workings of God now because he will only accept the work of God from the past. He has only an authority you read about, but not an authority that enters our own daily lives.
This is why you find simpleton believers casting out devils, healing the sick, and miraculous answers to prayer...and you find theologians incapable of any of those things.
Because authority is not dependent upon knowledge, though it must have some, it is not dependent upon experience, though it must have some. Authority is faith-working-by-love where the believer's reputation, knowledge, experience, credentials are not the decisive factor. The decisive factor is "they believe God will do what he says and they believe God will do it through them."
Brother Marvin,
Your perspective is agreeable and well made:) I don’t think we are really saying different things but to clarify the point of responsibility-
When in a family, if the father doesn’t take on the responsibility of providing that responsibility falls to the mother or eldest son (in a traditional context), when one of them assumes responsibility they also get "say so” or authorities over said provisions they normally wouldn’t enjoy access to.
Likewise in a classroom, if the teacher is absent and a substitute takes on the responsibility of teaching the class there is necessarily an authority that comes with that role that the substitute would otherwise not be imbued with.
Now the original post deals with ruling or exercising authority by way of prayer in a nation to affect a specific outcome,.. so we can look at Sodom and Gomorrah where the Lord asked Lott to find men (in progressively smaller numbers) to pray- which in turn would affect a specific outcome. Tho as we know, Lott couldn’t find anyone willing to accept the responsibility and thereby appropriate the authority...
Now is it by faith as you say? Yes absolutely dear brother! for there is no other way.
As I understand it this is what DP is alluding to, that if Lott (for example) had found men willing to pray they would have effectually been "ruling” the nation in that they were utilizing prayer to avoid calamity.
Nehemiah also comes to mind (as well as others) in that he accepted the seemingly massive responsibility to rebuild the wall and effectively "ruling”...
And yes it was through prayer and faith~
I hope this helps to clarify, if I am still misunderstanding or misrepresenting your position, please feel free to correct me as I very much appreciate the wisdom from above:)
I like what William said as well as your look at this subject. At what point do you think our good intentions go beyond the will of God. Elijah was a man just like us and he prayed,etc..is this authority he exercised as having heard from heaven or was it from reading the judgements in the Law if Israel worshipped and served other gods?
I know that’s 2 questions but if you have time and some thoughts on this I would appreciate your input as well as others.
Fletcher: Your postings are always top notch, we don't have a disagreement, I do fully understand what you said and totally agree with you. I simply addressed the issue from another angle.
"We have not because we ask not" Jms 4:2 Responsibility, compassion, desire, desperation, and the plight of the lost hinge on someone taking up the responsibility to obey the gospel.
The gospel ministry through the people of God is a grace work. The grace working in us spurs us to good works and the operation of faith. But the love of God constrains, it is not quenched, it never fails, and it perseveres and it demonstrates Jesus Christ in us.
The calling of God, The gifts of God, the stewardship of our goods and talents lay before us and the word 'responsibility' rightly depicts faith working by love.
Ungodly men define it in terms of self-accountability. The godly man defines it as you did, where God's interests and God's purposes direct his own interest and purpose.
Brother Miller asked, Elijah was a man just like us and he prayed,etc..is this authority he exercised as having heard from heaven or was it from reading the judgements in the Law if Israel worshipped and served other gods?
These two things you mention are ( I believe) always interlinked. The word is the judgment of God, therefore to proceed, one must know the will (judgment of God) in order to act faithfully. But Elijah 'heard' from God as we believers do in this covenant. Our hearing and our knowledge of God's word combine to form what Paul teaches. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God" Rom 10:17.
Our knowledge of God's word declares his authority to us.
Our belief and obedience to 'hearing' the word of God declares his authority through us.
To me, if this were not true, all the preachers would have to just pack it up and go home. For the preaching of the gospel should always be 'word of God alive in us, we hear it, believe it, obey it and now we are sent to proclaim it'
Now mix in prayer, compassion, zeal for God's honor and name, love for the people of God and a holy desire for the kingdom of God's advancement...you have a clear demonstration of 'authority'.
The authority of a the believer is a delegated authority, ours is always a derivation from God's anointing from the Holy Spirit in conjunction with God's word burning in us that we cannot keep silent.
I should make a clarification here, when I say 'hearing' it does sometime mean "I heard God speak to me". But the hearing that is and absolute necessity is the 'hearing' that combines the word of God with the faith of God...this my brother is life, it is power, it is God's presence, it is the difference between life and death. We do not live according to the letter, but the Spirit that gives life.
"Doesn’t authority come from the assuming of responsibility? That those who take on the responsibility (for a thing) will be imbued with the necessary authority to facilitate said role?"
Brother Fletcher,
This is a good question, and because the Lord has given us His authority in strategic prayer warfare then we should also be taking on the responsibility to pray and intercede for that which is on the Lord's heart. God gives His intercessors a prayer burden that they are to release.
Jesus Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, and He is ever living to make intercession for us.
The Holy Spirit that abides in us is revealing to us the mind of the Lord so that we can pray and intercede according to the will of God.
"But if we hope for what we do not yet see, we wait for it patiently. In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans too deep for words. And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."… (Romans 8: 26,27)
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