Can you answer this?

Forgive me for answering with a question, but..

Why did He choose Judas?

I think the fact that God IS all powerful and omniscient (and we are not) will limit our ability to comprehend from the get-go.

I think God knew that He could still be sovereign and have his purposes fulfilled in spite of Lucifer, Judas, Antichrist etc.

It's still worthwhile to Him.

That God has tolerated the presence of Satan until now demonstrates at least one indisputable fact: God has use for him, or else He would have tossed him into the lake of fire before now. If God has use for a devil, would He not be entitled to create one for His purpose?

Good thought brother!

"If God has use for a devil, would he not be entitled to create one"?

Wow brother, that is sounding very "C.S. Lewis" of you ;)

God bless you,

Maybe it's possible that If there was no devil there would be no fall of grace for mankind. If no fall then no possibility of a restoration process from God where he could have disobedient humans brought into a status of being joint heirs with Christ.
Joint Heirs with a new body incapable of disobeying and willing to love God freely
Because it also has the divine nature.

Something which he couldn't have created before hand (possibly because he doesn't want to force people to love Him). Even the devil when created, was capable of falling from grace. It never had Gods divine nature.

by emestiu
When God created Satan/Lucifer, does He not know that the angel He created will rebels against Him, will tempt Adam and Eve and will caused a cursed earth and humankind. And now the result of it is dying and hurting world, many people are in Hell now also with no escape.

My two cents!
Lisa

Sister Emestiu,

You wrote "GOD is all powerful and omniscient, He knows the future.

When God created Satan/Lucifer, does He not know that the angel He created will rebels against Him, will tempt Adam and Eve and will caused a cursed earth and humankind. ”

Just going on how you founded/framed your question- would that not also mean that God tempted Eve?

If not, how is it not?

Jn 1:3 All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.

Rev 4:11 Our Lord and God, You are worthy to receive glory and honor and power, because You have created all things, and because of Your will they exist and were created HSB

Since God knew what would become of Satan, the Angels and Humanity before he created them, he did so in full knowledge of their outcomes and how he would interact with them in all the myriads of thoughts and actions they produce.

In our minds we look at something we did or made that turned out to be a disaster, something to be ashamed of.
(at least I have). But God in his perfect wisdom, his absolute holiness and righteousness creates what he created with purposes and plan in mind that we were not designed to comprehend or apprehend. It takes faith that God is who he says he is in the face of incomprehensible horrors and sins.
It takes faith to express the love of God in the presence of tragedy and pain.

The only way to overcome what we see in this world of sin and corruption is to look and apprehend by faith the promise of God, that we as his beloved are safe and loved in his secure grasp.

His plans and purposes will be fulfilled, he will be loved by his own beloved, he will get glory by reason of their love and obedience to him, he will get glory and renown for his righteous judgments upon men and angels.

Moral judgments about the will and purpose of Satan are not for us to make, we do not judge God, he judges us. If we believe in Jesus, we commit ourselves to a faithful creator who loved us and gave himself for us. That is sufficient.

As for love toward God, though it is not programmed it is not natural, it is the inworking of the Holy Spirit that gave us birth and made us new creations. Our love is not the product of human will, it is the product of divine indwelling coupled to human-dying-to-self. Whatever love we have toward God is his own life being lived though us. We do truly love, but not without the divine life qualifying it as "love" toward God.

I do not know why God created Lucifer knowing he knows everything from the beginning. Scripture does not tell us so we are left to speculate. Since this is the case I think we do well to leave it there - regarding it as one of the mysteries God choose to not tell us. If he thinks it is wise to not say I think we will be wise to not pursue the issue.

I know people who will work to discredit the existence of God will argue this issue. I suspect they have sin issues they want to justify, defend and if they can discredit the authority of God it will give them a sense of 'peace'.

My understanding.

Sandra

I don't remember reading that in the bible, about satan being good then turning bad. Jesus said he was a murderer from the beginning

It’s not there Tyler- you’re right.

Ezekiel 28:
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

a little background so you can see the spiritual/physical comparisons and note that great king was simply the pawn of a much greater monarch.
http://biblehub.com/topical/t/tyre_or_tyrus.htm

Here is an unembellished summary of the available biblical data:

ӢJesus and John inform us that Satan was evil "from the beginning" (John 8:44/1 John 3:8)

ӢProverbs states that God made everything for Himself...even the wicked for the day of doom (16:4)

ӢThese verses may or may not be addressing the origin of Satan, but if they are, they suggest that God may have created Satan as a divinely-appointed "tester" (the literal meaning of "tempter"), to test His people's loyalty (as He tested Israel with false prophets--Deut.13:1-4).

ӢThough scripture affirms that some angels have fallen (2 Pet.2:4/Jude 6), no scripture anywhere ever states that Satan is or was himself an angel.

ӢIn the poetic language of Ezekiel (which never mentions Satan), the king of Tyre is said to have been a cherub in the garden of Eden (28:13-14). But later, in the poetic language of the same prophet, the Assyrian is said to have been a tree in the garden of Eden (31:3, 9)! Why should one passage be taken more literally than the other?

ӢA few verses earlier than the disputed Ezekiel passage (v.2), the ruler of Tyre is specifically said to be a "man" (not an angel). The statements that the king of Tyre is "full of wisdom," "perfect in beauty" and "perfect in all thy ways" are clear hyperboles, which were used earlier in the book about the city of Tyre itself (27:3, 28:3). This "king of Tyre" was corrupted by "trading" or "merchandise" (v.16), a distinctive of the city of Tyre, but hardly fitting any scenario of the activities of an un-fallen angel in heaven.

ӢLikewise, "Lucifer" (Isaiah 14:12) is clearly identified as the "king of Babylon" (Isa.14:4) and as a "man" (v.16). The lofty aspirations of "Lucifer" are exactly those of the builders of the Tower of Babel (the origins of Babylon). Lucifer is nowhere identified with Satan in the Bible.

ӢThe fact that Satan was seen by Christ falling "like lightning from heaven" (Luke 10:18) does not tell us anything about Satan's origin. Jesus did not state a timeframe for what He saw, and might well have been seeing prophetically the downfall of Satan which He later describes in John 12:31, and which John describes in Revelation 12:9---both of which seemingly were fulfilled at the cross (cf. Col.2:15/Heb.2:14).

ӢNone can doubt the devil's ability to "be transformed into an angel of light" (2 Cor.11:14), but this does not tell us any more about his actual nature than we can learn about the true character of his ministers from the fact that they "are transformed into ministers of righteousness" (v.15).

Let me ask you this:

What is the practical difference between creating a being whose role would be to tempt man to sin, as well as kill and destroy, vs. creating a being who initially did not do that but who God knew WOULD do that? Now, if you say God did not know that then the dilemma disappears. And if God has no purpose for that being, why does He not get rid of him? There are some things that Christians attribute to God that I do not. I absolutely do not believe God created evil. But God seems to have use for a being that tempts men toward evil. How can we say otherwise? Satan exists.

I have not expressed any thoughts on the origin of satan. Quite frankly I have no idea because there is no scripture that actually tells us, as outlined in the various passages I quoted.

I am not dumb; I realize that the vast majority of Christians believe that satan is a fallen angel but that is only based on the very questionable interpretation of the passages noted.

Satan may very well be a fallen angel, but that is merely conjecture. What difference does it make? He is what he is, whatever that is and we are to resist him with all our might. There is no lack of clarity about that.

ADD: I did not say that God created a being that was evil from the beginning. What I did do was reference a quote from Jesus and a quote from John that says satan was evil from the beginning. What is meant by "beginning” is not 100% clear.

Whoa there Frank- you seem to be attributing things to me that I have not stated. I did not say God created evil, nor have I said He is the author of sin.

In fact I said: "I absolutely do not believe that God created evil.”

How can I be any clearer than that?