Do we discount them as brothers and sisters?

Romans 10:9-10

If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.  One believes with the heart, resulting in righteousness, and one confesses with the mouth, resulting in salvation.

In scanning the Acts 2:38 thread some questions came to mind?  What must one believe to be considered a Christian? What must one believe whom we can consider one to fellowship with?  I guess what I'm asking is what are the essentials of truth that would save a person? A person we would consider to be born again and a believer in Christ?

I will try to clarify my question. To eliminate the obvious. Those involved in Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, Christian Science, and other blatant cults we would not consider Christians.  They totally distort the person and work of Jesus Christ.

But what of those groups some would call quasi Christian groups. For example the group I'm best familiar with is the Seventh Day Adventist. When one looks at their doctrinal statement they would hold to the blood of Christ cleansing one from sin. They would hold one must believe in Christ to be saved. They would hold to the inerrancy of scripture. They also believe in the Trinity. All three persons of the Trinity. So when one looks at The Seventh-Day Adventist. One might conclude that these are evangelical Christians.

However the Seventh-day Adventist have some heterodox beliefs.. They believe that Saturday is the Sabbath. They would hold at the mark of the beast is worship on Sunday. They would hold that there is no eternal hell. They would hold to soul sleep. And they would elevate Ellen G White almost on a par with scripture.  

Other such beliefs would include investigative judgment. And an observance of the Old Testament dietary regulations. (Although I found some of their health seminars to be beneficial. Justi in basic common sense for quality of physical health.)

I've tried to summarize some of the key aspects of SDA doctrine above. Particularly in the area that evangelicals would consider a bit unorthodox.

With all that being said. Would we consider the Seventh-day Adventists to be believers in Christ. Would we acknowledge them as brothers and sisters. There is a lot of debate on that.

From time to time I go with a friend to visit her SDA Church. I  I have met some precious saints in that church who appear to have the substance of Christ. I just think they have some baggage attached to their faith. But do I didcount them as brothers and sisters in Christ?

On occasion I have gone with a friend to her Greek Orthodox Church.  The Orthodox would probably hold to the same essential doctrines as the evangelicals. Yet the Orthodox are steeped in liturgy. Personally I do not find fulfillment in liturgical services. But do we discount the Orthodox as Brothers and Sisters in Christ if it appears they are born again.

I have visited Messianic churches. Personally I am not into the Israel, Jewish, Messianic thing. But again in Messianic congregations I have met Spirit-filled believers. They would hold to some of the same doctrines as evangelicals do regarding salvation. But again do we discount them as Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

I know the Oneness folks have been discussed extensively in the other thread. But again. Just because they do not have an understanding of the Trinity. Do we discount them as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I would say the above question will have particular relevance if persecution comes up on our land.  If we are persecuted and in hiding say with a Seventh Day Adventist, a Oneness Pentecostal, a staunch five-point Calvinist, a paedo Baptist Presbyterian, a practicing orthodox Christian, a fundy Baptist KJV saint.  And we know that we're going to be facing the guillotine the next day. Are we going to be debating the particulars of our various theologies?  Or are we going to put aside our theological differences and recognize that we are in the shadow of his cross?

I will complete my post by reminding us of the 21 believers who were martyred on the shores of Libya. They were Orthodox Christians. No doubt they were steeped in liturgy. Perhaps up to that point they were cultural Christiane. But on that day those in orange suits found Jesus to be very real to them. Each one died with the name of Jesus Christ on their lips.

So do we discount those who are in quasi or unusual Christian groups as Brothers and Sisters in Christ?

Thoughts...

Blaine

Certainly me being the most unusual or quasi.😅

/// Doctrine is never formed upon conversion.

The question is not whether they hold on to correct doctrine, but whether or not they were converted at all. ///

I think that is the question I'm trying to get at. What is the heart of a person who is in the Oneness or Seventh Day Adventist or so call quasi Christian group. Have they been born again? Do they have a solid experience with Jesus?

Blaine

is there unity between brothers and sisters in Christ who are not in same page with obvious truths laid in the Bible?

can both Christians have "fellowship" and walk together even they have different doctrinal view?

these mormons, catholics, adventist, ortodox, are they our brothers and sisters? but they are sure neighbors to love as ourself...

The Lord says that a man must be born again to enter into the Kingdom. That's it for me. If a man or a woman is indeed born again then they are my brother or sister. Some may be in doctrinal error at least in my opinion, but if they are genuinely born again then we are the Body of Christ. Of course someone will say what if they are not "genuinly" born again. All I can say to that, for the most part, is that when I meet a brother or a sister I have a "knowing," in my Spirit. Salvation is not about correct doctrine, I never knew any doctrine when I was born again, salvation is about an encounter with Jesus where I lay down my life and repent and give my whole life over to Him. Yes there will be marks of salvation that we can look for, and I do look for when I meet someone, but the bottom line is that salvation does not inhabit theology, it lies in a Person, it dwells within the Living Word, salvation is Jesus, if we have Him then we have salvation.................bro Frank

Hi Todd, good question. In my community in Scotland where I grew up, it was Irish/Catholic and Protestant ( in my town that mean for the most part going to church once or twice a year) So, if someone became a born again Christian they would find themselves between a rock and a hard place, being rejected by both religious sides. So, in the small born again community, one of the most powerful things that you could do would be to "Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord."

And I know that this is a crass illustration, but imagine a gay person coming out of the closet with all of his fears of how his friends and family are going to react, probably going to be rejected by most if not outwardly and overtly then definately kinda silently ostracized. This is exactly what happened to people who became born again, they would consider you weird and obviously part of some cult.

Confessing the Lord before unbelievers has so many different powerful aspects to it. 1. Not ashamed. 2. Not afraid.3. Willing to suffer loss. 4 Willing to be ridiculed. The list goes on and is definately a sign of a believer among unbelievers.............bro Frank

Todd asks,

/// What does it mean to confess Jesus as Lord?  ///

I have always been moved by this scene from The Robe.  Below is the dialogue between Marcellus, the Roman who crucified Christ. And Peter the fisherman.

Marcellus... I crucifed him.

Peter... I know. Demetrius told me.

Marcellus... You can forgive me?

Peter... He forgave you from the cross. Can I do less? Now is there anything standing in your way? Can you be one of us?

Marcellus... From this day own. I'm enlisted in his service. I offer him my sword, my fortune, and my life. And this I pledge you on my honor as a Roman.

Though only a scene from a movie. (And I might add one of the great Biblical movies of the 1950s.) The last part of the dialogue carries great substance.

Remember Paul is writing to Romans. Romans would have understood what it was to confess Caesar as their lord. Basically every Roman would have sworn allegiance to Caesar offering him everything.

But when a Roman came to Christ  a new lordship took place. To the Romans. To confess Christ as Lord would mean that everything is surrendered to him.

Marcellus the Tribune would have understood this. He would have understood the lordship of Caesar. But in the dialogue above he now understands the lordship of Jesus Christ.

So this should be that we understand the lordship of Jesus Christ in all areas of our life. That we like, Marcellus, will pledge everything to be enlisted in his service.

Someone will say brother Blaine you're taking too much theology from a movie. But sometimes movies can bring out the biblical truth we read in Scripture.

I do believe Marcellus best captures what it is to confess Christ as Lord.

Todd I hope this answers your question brother. For it surely answers mine.

By the way I saw the movie The Robe sometime back. Great movie. They don't make them like that anymore. I would commend it.

Blaine

Todd writes...........

"However, the truth is that you can have Jesus, but it will cost you the world; or you can have the world, but it will cost you Jesus."

Amen brother...........bro Frank

A VOM medical missionary wrote about the precious saints in Nigeria. He said these simple believers could not articulate the doctrinal finer points of the Calvinist / Arminian debates. But when a jihadist comes upon them swinging a machete and says repeat the shada. And this precious believer says, "No! "Jesus is Lord." The missionary remarked. "Suddenly their theology becomes very deep."

Is our doctrine the amount of theology we have stored in our mind. Or is our doctrine Jesus dwelling in our hearts by his Holy Spirit through faith in him.

Blaine

Havok writes...

/// So I have been praying for simple faith. Keeping my eyes on Jesus and living practically from doing that. ///

Eph. 3:14-21

For this reason I kneel before the Father from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named.  I pray that he may grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with power in your inner being through his Spirit, and that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. I pray that you, being rooted and firmly established in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the length and width, height and depth of God's love, and to know Christ's love that surpasses knowledge, so that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.

Now to him who is able to do above and beyond all that we ask or think according to the power that works in us--to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.
_____________________

Bro imagine praying this radical prayer above. The prayer that Paul prayed for the Ephesians. If we would pray this simple radical prayer above. Would our lives not be radically changed for the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now the above prayer by Paul is doctrine that definitely enlarges my heart.  It speaks of faith and love in the Lord Jesus Christ. To know him more intimately. This is stuff that I can cut my teeth on.

Bro Blaine

It seems the best doctrine is Jesus dwelling in our hearts? Do we possess Jesus? Does Jesus possess us? Is not the heart of unity having Jesus in our hearts?

Blaine