We Want the Benefits, but not the Demands

Amen brother Bear...

But how do we crucify our flesh?

The scriptures tell us how...

Galatians 5:24 (KJV) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Romans 6:6 (KJV)
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Galatians 2:20 (KJV) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The scriptures tell us that those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh.

We are to know that when Christ was crucified that we were crucified with Him.

We can’t crucify our flesh, it is Christ Jesus who crucified our flesh by including us in Him when He was crucified. It is being in Christ by the new birth of the Holy Spirit that we have crucified our flesh through the Spirit of Christ. It is being in union with Christ, in his death and resurrection power.

Romans 6:7-11 (KJV) 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Blessings to all...rbanks

Aren't you basically saying (again) bear that have a major axe to grind against the American church because it is not under persecution and doesn't carry the exact burden that you do?

Do you embrace the cross at every turn and crucify your flesh as you say others do not? First of all, we need to see to it that we are doing this in the way we say others are not if we are going to criticize others.

What broad road of destruction? Are souls going to perish because they are not exactly where you think they should be in regards to the persecuted brethren?

All of us appreciate your burden. I suspect most believers care a lot more about their persecuted brethren that you may think. Godly encouragement and the sharing of one's own legitimate burdens is a lot different than trying to force everyone into your mold. Folks likely desire as break in this regards.

The message the Spirit has been giving me these last years is identical to what you are saying, brother. The question that needs to be asked is: did you sign up to be a Christian by adding God to your program or to make Jesus Lord of your life. Yes, "My sheep hear my voice and they follow Me" all the way home... even if martyrdom is included in the calling. And the "joy is unspeakable and full of glory".

What about holiness? "...get rid of everything that hinders and the sin that so easily besets..." I, personally, cannot have a TV. 9 times out of 10 I am victorious while watching TV, but not the 10th time. It's because of the 10th times that I cannot have such a thing in my life. And I don't miss it a bit.

Yes, I use the Internet, but I have vowed to confess to my wife if I go anywhere on the Internet that I shouldn't. About 8 years ago was the last time I've had to confess anything to her. She cried when I confessed to her--I will never wound her again like that, so help me God!

Transformation...I'm a new person with the power of Jesus within me now--unless it didn't happen. It definitely involves death. Yes, crucifying self daily--like Paul did. And being consistent about it.

Walk by the Spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Blessings,
Dan-former Bible translator in Brazil

Brothers and Sisters

I suggest the church in America is in far greater danger than the persecuted church. While the persecuted church is facing its own severe test of faith, needing spiritual strength helped by our prayer, the wealthy and covetous church is in extreme danger of going down its own path of destruction because of its covetousness. It lacks sacrificial love and its love of the world, a far more sinister love of this life. threatens the faith and souls of professing believers.

Some apparently view concern for the American church as self righteousness. I think the church, as a whole in America is in serious trouble, not so much because of its lack of suffering or concern for persecuted brothers, but rather because of spiritual blindness to their lawless sacrificial love for those in urgent spiritual and physical need. This lack of love indeed results in lack of concern for the sufferings of the brethern in the world, but it is a deep sinful selfish root that infecting every need that Christ would meet through us.

Covetousness is the great idolatry that has spread so insidiously in the people of the West. I say that with tears and concern and not with moral superiority.

Robert-

Please define "sacrificial love" from a practical standpoint.

Sacrificial love

1. If you have two coats and your brother has none, you give him one.
2. If your brother is in jail for his faith, you go visit him and joyfully accept the plundering of your property if required
3. You give to those with urgent need by selling possessions even if you are left with none trusting in God to provide.
4. If your brother is hungry and you have material goods, you give.
5. If your brothers feet are dirty, you wash them.
6. If you are in extreme poverty and your brother is in a famine, you give generously and joyfully out of your poverty to meet their need for food.
7. Each of us as the need arises sells our possessions and lays the proceeds at the church to meet needs of fellow believers.
8. If a stranger is robbed and beaten, we take a detour in our plans and go into the ditch and clean them up, take them to a hospital and cove their cost of care.
9. We leave our jobs and homes as Jesus calls to serve the kingdom.
10. We proclaim the gospel even when it threatens our life, our jobs, our family security.
11. We do not store up treasure on earth but are rich towards God and richly generous to those with urgent needs.

Full Disclosure....not my original practical ideas.

Thank you brothers for sharing the truths of discipleship as taught in the Sermon on the Mount.

You are exactly right that to a large extent most of the churches in America are teaching on the blessings of God without saying much about the costs of being a disciple of Jesus. This is particularly true in the seeker sensitive churches which include most of the mega churches that are teaching a man centered gospel, which is no gospel at all because the demands of Jesus to forsake all are neglected.

The call to follow Christ is a call to impossible living, because it is only possible if we have died to self, and are now allowing Christ to live His life in us and through us.

Agreed Brother Mike. The Sermon on the Mount and the parable of the soils are the key foundational teachings of Jesus for the church functioning in the world. Almost all other teachings from Jesus and the apostles and prophets in the NT are expositions and applications of these two teachings.

It seems to me Jesus had in mind first and foremost guys like Judas who was given authority to preach and cast out demons. He was a man who had been given power like the High priest but who was not changed in the heart. Beyond that though even true believers should let the warning of " I never knew you" have its desired effect like Paul did with the Corinthian church who employed their great power without brotherly love. He, they and us will know we know Jesus by our love for one another.

by CalvaryCom

I think you're quite right, Blaine. Not only evangelical, but especially the charismatic, as they are the ones who claim to move in signs & wonders. B. H. Clendennen (a classical Pentecostal) once preached that we cannot turn the gifts on and off like a hydrant. We are vessels through whom God can sovereignly operate when and if He chooses...or He can bypass us altogether to accomplish His purposes.

When people turn the gifts of God into a money-making "ministry" they have erred from the Faith.

If the love of Christ dwell in us (like you stated brother), we cannot turn it on and off like a hydrant and belittle others. Amen brother, amen.

In the same sermon, the brother stated that he took a homeless guy to wal-mart (before the homeless dude could shower) and bought him new clothes and shoes (he prayed for help to get rid of them) and an 18 year old worker passed by with a huge trash can and he got to throw the old clothes away. But he got to the cash register and the cashier said, "If everyone would do what you were doing, this would be a different world!" And he said, "You got in 5 minutes what I travel all over the United States to share with people!"

by bear
But we do not want the "demands" of the cross. His demands that require us to crucify our fleshly selves so that he will live in us. His demands that require us to crucify our love for the world. Our love for the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the boastful pride of life.

Wow, talk about revival in the land! God, change me!

God bless,
Lisa

Good morning, and a special good morning to all the good folks out there everyday doing the lords work according to his will for their lives. Mr. Bill recognizes you today, may God continue to Bless you and your ministry. God Bless!

Lysa said,

"In the same sermon, the brother stated that he took a homeless guy to wal-mart (before the homeless dude could shower) and bought him new clothes and shoes (he prayed for help to get rid of them) and an 18 year old worker passed by with a huge trash can and he got to throw the old clothes away. But he got to the cash register and the cashier said, "If everyone would do what you were doing, this would be a different world!" And he said, "You got in 5 minutes what I travel all over the United States to share with people!"

"In my humble opinion, these so-called "demands" wouldn't be demands if we allowed the Love of God to come in change each one of us."

Lysa,

I saw this same testimony about the brother who took the man to Wal-Mart! I was in tears. It was one of those messages that has helped to change my approach in ministry to others. The key to all ministry, gifts, fruit, signs, and wonders is LOVE, period! Faith works by love.

My whole approach to reading the word, ministering, stepping out in faith now all goes through the filter of love. Understanding Gods love for me and His love for others. I can tell you for a fact it has revolutionized the response I have been getting from others.

A co minister of the brother at Wal-Mart takes his family and ministers regularly in the streets and the foundation of the whole approach is loving people. He has shared that his kids said they much rather minister in the streets because when they go to churches there is a hinderance in the manifestation of their ministry and encouragement to others.

I've thought about that for some time and find that there is more strife, division, and arguments in the church over doctrine and how to do this or that or how to interpret scripture and its this that hinders people from getting healed, set free, and delivered.

About a year ago I took a break from listening to more doctrinal teaching and have been more focused on the practical application of ministering to people in love, praying for them, and accepting them right where they are.

Its like I have been delivered from the proverbial hamsters wheel of just spinning in circles. A wheel of fruitless religious works and performance.

For me, I think religious people are far more bound up with their knowledge and understanding of scripture than the people we are to be ministering to. God now has me more focused on developing a relationship with Him so I can encourage others to do like wise. Its truly been liberating.

I will share an example. Where I live I run into a lot of homeless people daily and while I felt compelled to give them money it always came with a third degree as to what they were going to use the money for. I would preach at them that the money was only to be used for food and not drugs or alcohol. That is bondage pure and simple. One of the biggest problems I had was micromanaging the word of God that I preached. Micromanaging the Holy Spirit.

I can now give money in the name of Jesus from a pure heart of faith and love and I can be at total peace and free knowing that God will take this simple gesture and do with it as He wills.

Walls that have been built up in my family have now been torn down and bearing more fruit then all the previous years of my preaching rules and performance to my family. By simply loving people their hearts are now open to receive the word of the Lord and there is a genuine interest and desire in knowing what God wants for them and their lives.