Charismatic Chaos by John MacArthur

i'm currently reading "charismatic chaos" by john macarthur. according to macarthur, nearly everything i've been taught is wrong. he even backs his views biblically. i need someone (that is possiby familiar with this book)to talk to (from this forum) to explain these things to me and help me come to an understanding. new revelation is wrong?new prophecy is wrong?tongues are wrong? spiritual gifts ceased or not?etc. etc. etc.i guess some of these issues are debatable but anyway, i still need some help! thanks!dennis

John Macarthur is probably one of my favorite authors and I consider him a dear brother in the Lord. But, I am a Pentecostal and he is a Cessationist. This is one of the few points in which I would sharply differ from him. A good book to get and read would be What The Bible Says About The Holy Spirit by Stanly Horton.

if you don't mind ,what is a Cessationist? i am a pentecostal too. how should we respond to our affiliation after reading charismatic chaos? the book :what the Bible says about the Holy Spirit (by stanly horton) will answer some of my questions? from which standpoint is it written...a pentecostal standpoint or a macarthurism standpoint? there seems to be a degree of difference.questions, questions! :-) thanks- dennis

A Cessationist basically believes that the gifts of the Spirit passed when the Apostles died.Stanly Horton is Pentecostal and the book I suggested gives a very scholarly view point of a Pentecostal on the Holy Spirit. It's also very devotional.

hello all, I would like to make a comment, I myself attend the CPS program at the Masters College where John MacArthur is President. John was not out to attack Charismatic's he even opens and closes with that. He puts out a biblical perspective on the subject from a differnt view.

Hi Mike,I understand. I too wasn't out to attack John MacArthur. :-)

There is a book, not everyone will appreciate me mentioning this guys name, by jack Deere called "Suprised By the Spirit of God" while not everything in it is great, he does give some useful information. There is a also a book by Roger Stronstad, "The Charismatic Theology of St. Luke " that is also very useful tool in studying the gifts and operations today. just my 2 cents.

Brother Dennis, Something I see many churches doing nowadays (including my own)is focusing on the gifts of the Holy Spirit rather than the Holy Spirit Himself, kind of like my kids at Christmas. They don't care who the present is from, they just like opening it. Joh 15:26 And when the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of Truth who proceeds from the Father, that One will witness concerning Me. In His Peace, Chris

See "Christless Pentecost; David Wilkerson"

If John MacArthur makes his points by quoting supporting scripture and you've followed his lead, studied the same and know that it is accurate and in proper context, then is not the Holy Spirit speaking to you directly and opening your eyes?From you comments it has shaken you ... trust no man but trust God and the truth that the Holy Spirit reveals to you. Do not rely on your personal 'experiences' and your 'feelings' mask the Truth of God's Word.Another good book is The Theology of the Holy Spirit by Fredrick Dale Bruner. It too is a detailed study that fully examines the Pentacostal doctrine, theology and its evidence and then goes back through all of the same scripture to show that the scripture is out of context and does not support their findings. Again as you read any book, check all of its evidences against its scripture references and allow the Holy Spirit to speak to you. He will reveal to you God's truth in this and any another matters that you need guidance on.

Also "The Anointing of the Holy Spirit" by Zac Poonen is a great audio on the subject.Blessings!

There are several other references about the "charasmatic" experience available. Like another believer suggested, A Christless Pentecost by David Wilkerson is available on this website. It exposes some of the dangers of charismatic or pentecostal meetings from the perspective of a pentecostal preacher (Wilkerson). I read a book about a year after my conversion called They Speak with Other Tongues by John Sherrill (coauthor of The Cross and the Switchblade, God's Smuggler, The Hiding Place and many other popular christian books). This book speaks consists mostly of the testimony of Mr. Sherrill and his wife, Elizabeth. As writers, they were hired to write for Guidepost magazine -- even before Mr. Sherrill became a christian. It highlights his conversion, growth as a believer, and his experiences with charasmatic and pentecostal believers and doctrine. As I remember it, the book was a great resource and very educational.There are many other resources available to read or hear. However, never let these resources (even the wonderful resources found through this site) or any other resources take the place of forming beliefs through studying the Word of God. I suppose the key to spiritual growth is to wholeheartedly search for the truth on all matters. Too many people seem to rely on the words of other writers, preachers, television evangelists, radio evangelists or supposed "authorities" on a subject. The Word implores us to "test" or "prove" everything (I Thessalonians 5:21) while working out our own salvation "with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). Often, you will find five different teachers on the radio or television saying five completely different beliefs about a single issue. With so much variation of doctrine, it is important for a believer to learn truth through studying the Word of God, while using other books as mere "reference guides" that are always considered flawed. Remember, "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings." Proverbs 25:2.I have a friend who told me that, after his conversion, he was "mentored" by another believer -- who showed him nearly every doctrinal belief he now has. There are alot of churches that warn believers to accept "everything" that the pastor or leadership of a church teaches, or suggest which preachers to listen to or avoid. This appears just as ridiculous as tuning a piano by another piano. In the end, you may have two out-of-tune pianos. So what should believers do? Believers should realize that all human beings are flawed -- no matter how spiritual or spiritually gifted they may be. Both David and Paul spoke of all men being "liars" and Isaiah considered all men "grass." The Bible warns about trusting in man (regardless of how spiritual they are or seem to be). Jeremiah 17:5 states:"Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD."There is a danger in trusting man. Our hope should be on Christ -- and Christ alone. And the only sure word that we have from God is found in the Word of God. God's Word will never contradict itself. Jeremiah 17:7-8 continues:"Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is. For he shall be as a tree planted by the waters, and that spreadeth out her roots by the river, and shall not see when heat cometh, but her leaf shall be green; and shall not be careful in the year of drought, neither shall cease from yielding fruit."Once believers realize the futility of man, they should search the Scriptures in order to know the certainty of their beliefs. The believers in Berea commended for being like this, because they searched the Scriptures to know whether the Apostle Paul's teachings were true (Acts 17:11). Like I mentioned, there are alot of preachers and teachers out there (many of which are wonderful men) who teach contradictory doctrinal beliefs. I was blessed to have had a youth minister who urged his youth group to "not take his word for anything." This youth pastor urged us to search the Scriptures and decide whether or not he was preaching truth. It helped me greatly as a teen. Unfortunately, ministers like this are hard to find.

freedbyjc wrote: and its evidence and then goes back through all of the same scripture to show that the scripture is out of context and does not support their findings. Could you please clarify what you mean by this: Scripture out of context??ginnyrose

Sorry ginnyrose just get a chance to pop back in ...Bruner shows that when the experts of the Charismatic movement were quoting scripture to support their views, they quoted only bits and pieces of scripture. These seemingly specific texts that are so formational to the 'Charismatic movement' were pulled out of the text 'bloody and dangling' with no regard to the context of the passage [as my Precepts teacher taught me the phrase]. Precept Bible studies are taught nation-wide everyday by leaders who are dedicated to helping others learn how to study their Bible using the inductive study method.Bruner takes all of these "formational texts" back in to the context of the passages and shows in vivid detail the errors of their interpretation and paraphrasing. Its like the story of a new Christian who randomly opens the Bible, closes his eyes and lets his finger falling on the text give him discerment into Gods' heart by letting the so-called 'found' texts be the words of God spoken directy to him personally... on his first try he then opens to the passages that reads "and Judas went out and hung himself'... and, not liking the message THERE then opens to 'go out and do like wise'. WHILE both passages are from God's Holy Word, when they are not examined with the focus and context of the chapter and verse, it is extremely dangerous to a Christian's spiritual [and physical] maturity.

Bruner shows that when the experts of the Charismatic movement were quoting scripture to support their views, they quoted only bits and pieces of scripture. These seemingly specific texts that are so formational to the 'Charismatic movement' were pulled out of the text 'bloody and dangling' with no regard to the context of the passage [as my Precepts teacher taught me the phrase]Can you give us an example so that we know the kind of thing you and Bruner are talking about?