A father's authority

Are young women under the authority of their father before they marry, irrespectively of whether they live in / outside the 'father's house'?

And if she be under the authority of her father, does that mean that she should obey him, in the same way, like when she was 16y old for example. I say purposefully young 'women', not teenagers.

Edit to add: I speak of a Christian home, and would really be glad to have biblical understanding on the topic.

Thanks!

My opinion

I think if the woman is grown and out of the house on her own, she is now responsible for her own actions. If she comes under her father's authority, it will be willingly because of the father's love and influence, not because of coercion. Should she submit herself to his authority? If it is wise and good, she might. If it is unwise and the relationship is poor, she will probably run from it. I see no Biblical mandate for it other than willingly due to relationship.

For example, a young woman in her 20's might submit to her father's decision about marriage, knowing he loves her and has the wisdom to help her select a good mate. But she will probably only do this based on what has happened in the years when she was in the home and was compelled to be under authority.

Thanks for the response, Travis!

Well, I am in my 20's and I do really love my dad. After the Lord, he is one of the most important persons in my life. He is a minister and I value also his opinion very much.

I would not like to marry without his consent, since I know that he loves me and if he thinks a certain man is not for me, chances are he's right. Perhaps 90% probability, if not higher.

But I did not raise the topic because of marriage. Sometimes we have different opinions on certain topics and that gives me hard times. For example, church membership - cause I do not live at home and would like to be part of the church I am going to over a year. He can't quite understand why, since I do not absolutely agree with everything going on in the church. For me, I know the church is not perfect, but I've decided to stay there as long as I am in Germany if the Lord does not lead otherwise. And I want to serve God there.

Another example calling in life - he would that I rather stay in Germany and continue with specialization after finishing my studies (and that's quite reasonable). But I would rather be a missionary (which does not seem perhaps so reasonable, and could be dangerous).

Now, granted I tell him: "The Lord told me." - he will not object and would leave me to do what I want. I've not seen a vision, but it's been on my heart for years, I prayed about it, find it sometimes difficult to explain to my loved ones why I sometimes do certain things or have taken particular decision. And that what's troubles me. When I am sure in my heart 'You've got to go this way' and most people around me go like 'What?'

Edit to add.

"Are young women under the authority of their father before they marry, irrespectively of whether they live in / outside the 'father's house'?"

#1. Your question is non-sensical. Theoretically, one may convince themself that they are, but practically, it's an impossibility.

#2 You answer your own question in your second post. You are living out what you really believe! And it's evident in your choice of words.

You're deceiving yourself! As well as looking for justification for your own actions. You've plainly stated,and are living proof,that you have no intention of being 'under' anyone's authority but your own!

In your own mind, God places His stamp of approval upon whatever decisions you make.

Open up His Word. Obey His commands directed to women. Lest you fall into the category of those Jesus refers to in Luke 6:46.

Are you talking about your desire to be a missionary vs your father's desire that you stay in Germany and pursue specialization right away after graduation.

Is he entirely against that you become a missionary or he just want you to finish specialization first.

What do you mean by being a missionary a sort of a full time evangelist or a medical missionary.

I think your father is just lovingly concern about you, being a missionary is not an easy life. But if you will eventually pursue it with a heart to serve, then our parents can not really decide for us the whole of of our lives. You will not sin if you do so.

If you are pursuing medical field, being an specialist can be an advantage for the people you will serve, though primary care is really important.

26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters””yes, even their own life””such a person cannot be my disciple.
Luke 14:26

Luke 14:26 is not applicable to her question!

Read her last words,

"Edit to add: I speak of a Christian home..."

And note also that, her father is a minister!

Will answer to you all later.

@savannah

I ask because I really want to know the truth.

I do not understand #1.

You are living out what you really believe!

In your own mind, God places His stamp of approval upon whatever decisions you make.

No, I do not think so! Very often I have wished to do something and God has virtually stopped me from doing it or closed every door that seemed open to me. And generally, recalling all these occassions, I think that almost everytime I felt as if I was kicking against the pricks (Acts 26:14).

I value very high the advice of my father. And he has definitely won my respect because of the command of God, because of spiritual authority and because he has been great supporter, friend and even critic when needed. He's not been perfect, and I know that but I love him nevertheless.

One friend even told me that because of my bond with dad, I am unconciously seeking in other pastors / ministers to find my dad. Because he has been to me dad, friend and a pastor - all in one. But that is too much of a burden for any minister of God and I think it is not right to require it either.

Now, why I feel under his authority is not because of coercion, but because of this strong relationship. And I do not want to destroy it, to hurt him or to create division spiritually.

And I realized these past few weeks that I strive to behave (as far as possible without commiting sin) so that I "abide in the love" of the people that I love i.e. to keep good relationship with them. At first hand sounds good, but it can be also very dangerous.

God says:
"How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" John 5:44

So, how can I follow God, if all of the time I am looking, how dad is going to react? If daddy does something wrong, I would not be able to tell him that lovingly, because I would seek honour of men - and I think everybody would agree that this is wrong.

How can I discern the will of God, if always I put my trust in the advice of my father? Remember the life of Jehoash?

"And Jehoash did that which was right in the sight of the LORD all his days wherein Jehoiada the priest instructed him. Now after the death of Jehoiada came the princes of Judah... And they left the house of the LORD God of their fathers, and served groves and idols" (2 Kings 12; 2 Chronicles 24)

I do not want this to be my case.

And, please if you really want to help me understand, would you explain what submission to my father when I do not live at home, should look like? Because when I am at home 'for vacation', I know what it looks like. I have no problem working at home, helping out and even not going out when he says 'No!' I am under his roof, I obey.

But for example, if I want to go to visit orphans, who live in an orphanage (in Eastern Europe where many kids are deserted by their LIVING parents) and there would be no one to come with me, if dad disagrees I wouldn't go. But this is hard. I do not want to disobey authority, but I do not want to spend my life also, taking care only of ME, MYSELF, and MY FAMILY. That's all.

And you think I should wait till I marry in order to serve? What if I never marry?

I know it is dangerous for a woman to do certain things, and do not promote being foolish. But why do we sing in the song 'People need the Lord':

What could be too great a cost for
Sharing life with one who’s lost
Through His love our hearts can feel
All the grief they bear
They must hear the words of life
Only we can share

Too great a cost?

Isn't it strange: in the West and Europe it is free to share the gospel and you do not feel that many Christians are enthusiastic about it. At least I do not see it.

In the persecuted countries, it is forbidden. And yet people seek a way to preach the gospel. But they would have every reason to say: "Today we won't go to church, we might die." "We are not going to preach to Muslims, they might kill us." etc.

You get my point? If I seek only my own security and welfare, I think I will never do anything for the Lord. For where is my faith required, if everything is safe, prepared, provided for?

I hope this makes my way of thinking clearer.

Are you talking about your desire to be a missionary vs your father's desire that you stay in Germany and pursue specialization right away after graduation.

Uhm, generally I think that he thinks :D, the desire to be a missionary is 'wishful thinking'. Specialisation for traumatology for example in Germany is 5-6 years. That means by the time I finish, I'll be almost 30yo. Perhaps married, perhaps with children I do not know. But with every year after graduation, chances of going back home become smaller, I think. So that's why I do not want to stay in Germany.

I am tired of thinking of my life only in terms of financial prosperity (career, salary, etc.). Where did "seek ye first the kingdom of God" go? So yes, it's logical from every point of view to remain in Germany. Whether it is so, from the Lord's perspective, is another question.

What do you mean by being a missionary a sort of a full time evangelist or a medical missionary.

I am not sure. I think it depends on the country, where I will be living.

Yes, I know daddy does this lovingly. I told him that perhaps one day, I'll have to take decision, which will be hard for him, but I'll still have to do it because of the Lord. "Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also" - words to Mary, the mother of Christ.

And he understands, I too know that it is not a joke. He just wants me to be sure it is the will of God and not my imagination.

Todd,

I thought of these words also. And in Matthew:

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

Young lady says,

"I ask because I really want to know the truth.

I do not understand #1.

You are living out what you really believe!

-------------------

Yes we should live out what we believe! I'll say it again, you are doing just that.

In another thread you spoke your mind and made it very clear what your will is.

You said sarcastically,

"I will rather study something and give it up for the Lord, than sitting aroung all day, waiting for the Day, when my beloved future husband is going to appear and I won't (perhaps) have to work anymore, because He will provide for me. I would prefer to study medicine and than give up a carrier, if the Lord leads so, than sitting around, doing nothing and wondering who will take care of me when my parents depart."

You begin with the words, I Will. Very telling!

What you ought to say is,"If my Lord will."

You make it out as if there are only two options, when there certainly are not only two!

You say it's either "sitting around" (which you say twice), "doing nothing", or a carreer.

God has told us men what He has created us for, and He's also told you women!

As I said in my other post, "Open up His Word. Obey His commands directed to women."

You exhibit an independent spirit. Not one befitting of a young christian lady.

As for me, and all the men reading this, I must open up His Word and obey His commands to men.

It's not as complicated as so many make it out to be.

But the spirit of the age, especially in young ladies, is an independent spirit.

Pray. Thy will, not mine, be done! And His will accords with His Word. Don't misapply or take His Word out of context.

I said, "I will", because I currently do and by God's grace will continue to study. By the way, I do study abroad with the blessing and approval of my parents.

You make it out as if there are only two options, when there certainly are not only two!

Which are the other options?

You say it's either "sitting around" (which you say twice), "doing nothing", or a carreer. God has told us men what He has created us for, and He's also told you women!

I am very sorry, if you think that I am of the modern 'carreer women'. I think my post in the other thread and the link to what Paul Washer says on the issue (which I also believe), did clarify my stand.

I guess what you want to say is, "Women should deliver children and take care of the home." 100% agreed. I don't have children, no Christian man has asked for my hand.

What do you suggest I should do?

Oh, and btw I noticed a mistake in my post:

"I would prefer to study medicine and THEN (after that) give up a carrier, if the Lord leads so, than sitting around, doing nothing..."

You ask,

"What do you suggest I should do?"

Since you've asked, I'd suggest you begin here:

Read - "So Much More: The Remarkable Influence of Visionary Daughters on the Kingdom of God."

The authors Anna Sophia Botkin and her sister Elizabeth Botkin have a website,

botkinsisters.com/about-the-botkin-sisters

They write;

Our passion is to explore the question: Where do young Christian women, especially the unmarried, fit into the Body of Christ? What role are we called to play in advancing the Kingdom of God? And how is that different from the mainstream path that Christian young women are usually pressured into?

The fire burning in our souls is to communicate the full depth and breadth of the womanhood of the Bible ”“ the disciple-making, counsel-giving, profit-earning, church-serving, gift-exercising, knowledge-seeking, hospitality-giving, poor-and-needy-helping, initiative-taking, truth-proclaiming, nations-evangelizing femininity we see praised from Genesis to Revelation.

Our message is fundamentally about the identity and purpose women were created to have in Christ, and the role that Christian women were created to play in family, church, state, society, commerce, and culture.

________________________________

There's some thought provoking information included in this book on the ties between feminism and Marxism that you may find astounding. Their father Geoffrey Botkin was a devoted Marxist prior to his conversion to Christ.

Young lady says,

"I don't have children, no Christian man has asked for my hand."

I'd suggest you bring this to the Lord daily. If this be the desire of your heart, He will certainly not turn a deaf ear to your praying unceasingly toward that end.

I pray. May He grant you such desire.

BTW - I am also a father. A father of two teens, and two in their twenties. As well as others who have told me that I am like a father to them, a father that they never had.

I assume that you are still schooling. Perhaps you are wondering what will be wortwhile for you do in a near future, as a christian. I don't know how strong really is your urge to become a missionary, as the Lord said, especially with this type of life dedication, that we as well count the cost beforehand. But that is not the only thing to consider I guess, for example, is there a clear opening for you to be a missionary now, is their already a group that you can join or a place for the missionary work.

If you are not yet in that situation, I hope you that you will continue to be good in your studies. Do best to get a physician certification and if you are thinking of a more urban place of practice or mission, being a medical specialist is a bonus for the beneficiaries of your ministry even in a more rural practice, it is better to have skills that people can not easily access for absence or high cost. Yes, it will take a long time, it is too taxing physically and mentally, but time will surely pass, whatever and wherever. Let time be fruitful even in a state of undecided confusion. Having said that, primary care is good or even better in many situations.

I hope I am not getting far from your concern. Pardon that I am shying away from the doctrinal disquisition. It is maybe that you have to wait more before your concern will clear up, the events and seasons will change, the Lord will lead you, meanwhile be good for whatever things you are in charge now.

Thanks, savannah.

But don't you have some practical advice for your daughters? I can't believe you just tell them: read that book. :)

I pray. May He grant you such desire.

Desire I do have, but I did not say this kind of lamenting my situation. But just trying to explain that I have to do something meanwhile and not just depend on my dad to take care of me.

I don't know yet, who's the man who would desire to leave Germany in order to be a missionary anywhere in the world, but God's way is perfect.

P.S. I deleted part of my comment, cause I think I might have some wrong understanding of family, mission field etc.

@passerby

Thanks for your response! No problem, the theological part of my question I'll have to figure out with God and dad on my own :) Some things are difficult to explain.

Yes, I have by God's grace 2 more years till I finish studying. I don't know what you mean with 'primary care'. Emergency care?

Edit to add: I know some missionary organisations and would like to work with them. But my chances are very limited, since till I end my studies, I will have to be most of the time in Germany. I do trust in God to open a door, to provide, to bring coworker(s) - for I know I cannot do this alone!

And partly because I am a woman. But hey, God made women weak (in a particular way), so if He wants me to serve Him this way, He has to provide coworkers - brothers and sisters in Christ with whom to carry the torch of the gospel!

Btw I realised that having a degree, for example MD, could open for you a door to be a missionary in countries where otherwise you are not going to receive a (long-term) visa. For example India! So officially you come to work, but the intent of your heart is to work for God!
Isn't this wonderful?!

Primary care= general practice, a "family doctor.”

Primary care is the first contact care whether in the community clinics, primary care hospitals, or home care. Mostly they are served by the GPs & Family medicine practitioners, but many specialists are also in primary care.

I was hovering over the health care system in Bulgaria, I guess it is pretty socialized overall, especially in places away from big cities. It seems that there is a big contrast between the technology offered by the government health facilities and the private groups which have state of the art practice.

But due to a lower wage system in general, the medical service cost is lower than other countries in Europe, which is an opportunity for medical tourism. In the rural areas patients may have to go distances for first contact care and families are expected to prepare food and bedding if confined.

I guess, because the health care system in Bulgaria is still catching up in a way , being a medical specialist can get you better chances of entry or return. Well, you know better.

I hope you are enjoying your studies, as for the other cares of life, don't let them bother you much, they will come sooner or later and perhaps you can just smile.