Romans 4:19-21

A friend was reading through Romans and came across these verese

"And Abraham’s faith did not weaken, even though, at about 100 years of age, he figured his body was as good as dead””and so was Sarah’s womb. Abraham never wavered in believing God’s promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God. He was fully convinced that God is able to do whatever he promises.”
”­”­Romans”¬ ”­4:19-21”¬ ”­NLT”¬”¬

He then asked me the question "How can Paul say Abraham’s faith never wavered when it clearly did?

Does anyone have some insight on this? Abraham must have doubted because he tried to take matters in his own hands when he slept with Hagar. Right??

I read your post, and went back and looked at Gen. 16 and 17 one more time. Actually, the whole Hagar thing was Sarai's idea. Abraham just agreed to it. When the angel appeared, Abraham believed it, but Sarai laughed. That is why the child's name was called Isaac.

Abraham made a lot of mistakes and going in to Hagar was perhaps the most glaring. But I don't believe His faith in God that out of His loins would come a great nation and the savior ( Christ ) never wavered.

Several years ago I looked at every New Testament mention of Abraham and then compared it to the Old Testament. According to the New Testament, God showed Abraham that his seed would be Jesus Christ, the savior of the world, and showed him that Christ would be raised from the dead. This is why Abraham had such confidence in offering Isaac. He just assumed (great faith) that God would do for His son what He had been shown God would do for His own Son. Really cool stuff when you study it out. It will make you jump for joy at God's plan for your salvation.

It was God who made the covenant promise - commitment to Abraham. It was God's total responsibility to bring this promise to pass. Now Abraham believed in God's commitment to him because he knew what God had promised him, God would perform. Now Abraham’s faith never wavered because the fulfillment of the promise was dependent on God's faithfulness to Abraham. It did not depend on his faithfulness to God. So Abraham’s faith never wavered.

Hi Travis,

I also want to dig deeper into this.

Just thinking:

(1)

Sarah laughed.

Gen. 18:10-12 ”“
He said, "I will surely return to you at this time next year; and behold, Sarah your wife will have a son." And Sarah was listening at the tent door, which was behind him. Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in age; Sarah was past childbearing. Sarah laughed to herself, saying, "After I have become old, shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?"

But Abraham had also laughed.

Gen. 17:15-18 ”“
Then God said to Abraham, "As for Sarai your wife, you shall not call her name Sarai, but Sarah shall be her name. I will bless her, and indeed I will give you a son by her. Then I will bless her, and she shall be a mother of nations; kings of peoples will come from her." Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, "Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?" And Abraham said to God, "Oh that Ishmael might live before You!"

(2)

Sarah laughed.

But the Lord did not hold that against her.

This was the Lord’s response:

Gen. 18:14 ”“
"Is anything too difficult for the LORD? At the appointed time I will return to you, at this time next year, and Sarah will have a son."

Sarah’s lack of faith did not nullify the Lord’s faithfulness.

Perhaps Abraham’s faith didn’t waiver. He just went in with Hagar to please his wife in much the same way that Adam wasn’t deceived but perhaps ate the fruit to please his wife as did Sampson try to please Delilah. It’s a theme Paul addresses in 1 Corintjhians 7.

Hi Robert,

Here is the IMMENSE difference:

Adam was driven out of paradise (Gen. 3:23). Through him, sin and death entered the world (Rom. 5:12). And in him, all die (1 Cor. 15:22).

Abraham was God’s friend (Isa. 41:8). His faith is our example (Rom. 4:19-21; Heb. 11). And in his seed all the nations of the earth are blessed (Gen. 22:18).

And Sarai became Sarah (Gen. 17:15), God’s princess!
(Comment: Sarah means "princess”.)
And there was the time and place when it was God’s will for Abraham to listen to her (Gen. 21:9-12).

How would your explanation explain all these? If Abraham failed in the same way as Adam failed, why are the outcomes so vastly different?

Blessings.

The difference might be that God did not tell Abraham not to be with Hagar whereas, God definitively told Adam not to eat the fruit or he would surely die.

I'm glad some few decided to reply.

It appears from Genesis 17 that Abram being 99 years old, Ishmael being 13 years old, God appeared to Abram and made a covenant with Abraham that he would bless Isaac.

God gave specific reasons for not blessing Ishmael as he did Isaac.

13 years later, God appeared to Abram making covenant and establishing it with the sign of circumcision. God also now going forward to establish Abrahams descendants brings forth Isaac by supernatural intervention and not by way of natural human ability. This event marked a new period in the lives of Abraham and Sarah.

But as to wavering in his faith, It maybe that Paul was referring to Abrahams faith in God after God had appeared and made covenant with him that Sarah would conceive.
So, despite Abrahams age and Sarah being past child-bearing age, Isaac became the 'child of promise' because his birth was according to divine agency and not by way of expediency which Sarai and Abraham acted to obtain the promised child with human ability.

As I see it, Paul referring to Abraham's faith that God would give him a Child being so old and Sarah being past her natural ability to give birth undertook to go unto Sarah and receive from God a true child of promise.
Here in this context he did not waiver but believed and received of God what God had promised.

Abraham's unwavering faith in context was 'looking past the deadness of his body and Sarah's womb' and going unto his wife that by God's power she would conceive. The impossibility of his own body and Sarah's body performing was overthrown by his faith in the promise of God.

Paul by the Spirit of God seeing the working of God in this ancient couple receives the revelation of God, herein lays the heart of the new covenant, that being righteousness is by faith and not works. That our birth is by divine agency our righteousness is by divine promise, our new life is by a circumcision not made by hands and our Savior saw to it that what was promised to Abraham was fulfilled in us by way of his sacrifice of his own self on the mount.

Marvin wrote:
"Paul by the Spirit of God seeing the working of God in this ancient couple receives the revelation of God, herein lays the heart of the new covenant....."

I am thinking along the same lines.

Will gather my thoughts together and write again.

Roman 4:19-21 ””
Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb; yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

John 8:56 ”“
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."

MY THOUGHTS:

THE CROSS IS WHERE TRUE FAITH BEGINS

Men commit two evils when they forsake God and turn to themselves and believe in themselves and trust in themselves for life and everything required for life. This is FALSE FAITH in self that imparts nothing but emptiness, futility and death.

Jer. 2:13 ”“
For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me,
The fountain of living waters,
To hew for themselves cisterns,
Broken cisterns
That can hold no water.

Therefore, the faith we are NOT to have is the confidence in ourselves, in "flesh”.

Phil. 3:3 ”“
for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

TRUE FAITH is faith in God and NOT in self. TRUE FAITH sees our utter worthlessness and barrenness and hopelessness and sees God as our only hope and sufficiency and is fully assured that what God has promised He is able to perform.

Ps. 39:4-7 ”“
LORD, make me to know my end
And what is the extent of my days;
Let me know how transient I am.
Behold, You have made my days as handbreadths,
And my lifetime as nothing in Your sight;
Surely every man at his best is a mere breath. Selah.
Surely every man walks about as a phantom;
Surely they make an uproar for nothing;
He amasses riches and does not know who will gather them.
And now, Lord, for what do I wait?
My hope is in You.

2 Cor. 3:5 (KJV) ”“
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think anything as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Isa. 26:3-4 (KJV) ”“
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.
Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:

Jer. 17:7 (YLT) ”“
Blessed is the man who trusteth in Jehovah,
And whose confidence hath been Jehovah.

Rom. 4:20-21 ”“
…… he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

God’s promise to us is eternal life and that life is in His Son, Jesus Christ.

1 John 2:25 ”“
This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

John 14:6 ”“
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

1 John 5:11-12 ”“
And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

God gives us this eternal life by putting us in Christ and gives us His Holy Spirit to live in us and through the agency of the Holy Spirit we know the reality of Christ in us. Because Christ is in us, as He is, we are. TRUE FAITH is being fully assured that God’s promise of eternal life to us through Christ in us by the Holy Spirit is YES!

1 Cor. 1:30 ”“
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

John 14:16-17,20 ”“
I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you……In that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Col. 2:9-10 ”“
For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete……

2 Cor. 1:20-21 ”“
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God,

WE must see the total worthlessness and hopelessness of self and die to self. We die to self by being crucified with Christ.

Gal. 2:20 ”“
I have been crucified with Christ……

"It is finished” (John 19:30).

In the old covenant, sacrifices were made year after year because in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year for it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins (Heb. 10:1-4). But, by the will of God, "we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb. 10:10).

It is finished! Our old man of sin and self has died with Christ forever. And God says, "AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.” (Heb. 10:17).

Do we continue to sin?

Rom. 6:2 ”“
"May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?”

Rom. 6:6-7 ”“
knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin.

Rom. 6:10-11 (KJV) ”“
For in that he died, he died unto sin once……Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin……

What do we do?

Phil. 3:13-14 ”“
……one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

2 Cor. 5:21 ”“
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

2 Cor. 5:14 ”“
For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

2 Cor. 5:17 ”“
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Rom. 5:11 (KJV) ”“
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves ……alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Eph. 2:4-6 ”“
But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us……raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

Col. 3:1-4 ”“
Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.

Col. 3:10-11 ”“
and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

Gal. 2:20 ”“
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me……

Salvation is a gift of God.

Eph. 2:8-10 ”“
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

God Himself will perfect us in Christ.

I Cor. 1:4-5,8-9 (Berean Study Bible) ”“
I always thank my God for you because of the grace He has given you in Christ Jesus. For in Him you have been enriched in every way, in all speech and all knowledge…… He will sustain you to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God, who has called you into fellowship with His Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

1 Thess. 5:23-24 ”“
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

John 17:3 ”“
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

We do not have because we do not know Him, who He is in us. Therefore let us search the scriptures to know Christ. The riches of Christ are unfathomable (Eph. 3:8).

He is in us. As He is, we are. We do not possess because we do not see. May God open our eyes to see the glory of Christ in us.

2 Cor. 4:4 ”“
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

2 Cor. 4:6 ”“
For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

2 Cor. 13:5 ”“
……Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you……?

2 Cor. 3:18 ”“
But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

COMMENT ON ABRAHAM’S FAITH:

In Rom. 4:19-21, Abraham finally saw his own body as "dead”. At this crucial turning point, he denied himself, embraced the cross, died to himself, turned to God and trusted in God alone. False faith in self was cast away and true faith in God began and "he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.”

WOW!!!!

Knowing God is knowing the never ending - unfolding life we have received really is. First, in 1 John 5:11-12, John said this about that life. God has given us HIS-unfolding life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son [Jesus dwelling in your heart] has life.

The term His never ending - unfolding life carries the concept of the unfolding of our lives, step by step, out from Jesus living in our hearts. That unfolding of Jesus as our life will continue step by step, from glory to glory, forever.

But what is this life we now possess?

A Fountain of Water. Now, we said that we don't hold mental images in our brains depicting God. Nonetheless, Jesus gives us a picture in John 4:14 that He wants us to have when we think about the life that is Father, knowing Father, inside of us. Whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become inside of him a fountain of water springing up into never ending - unfolding life.

Agree, Vern.

The life of Christ in us through the Holy Spirit is a never ending-unfolding life that begins now and will continue step by step, from glory to glory, forever.

Rom. 11:33 -- Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God!

ADD:

Eph. 3:14-19 -- ….that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith....that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

Phil. 3:8 -- …….that I may gain Christ

Phil. 3:12 -- Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus.

T. Austin Sparks:

THE OBJECT OF FAITH

"It is not that we have somehow to conjure up something called faith. It is the object of faith that is vital, ……and as the letter to the Hebrews so forcibly sets forth, even Jesus Christ, Who He is, what He is, the place He occupies, and His capacity. It is all in Him. The focal point of faith is Jesus Christ, and the value, the virtue, the power of faith is derived from its object, it is not in itself. It is not until you get the right object of faith that faith is a potent thing. ……To become a positive spiritual factor in the house of God means that there has to come a vital link between your spirit and Jesus Christ, a living union by faith with Jesus Christ, and it is that taking hold on Him in faith that provides the channel, the vehicle, through which the energy of God comes. The energy of God, the Holy Ghost, comes along the line of Jesus Christ as the object: not something that we call faith, which may, after all, be something that we have worked up to make ourselves believe. Oh no, what matters is the object of faith, the Lord Himself. God works on the ground of His Son, and you and I apprehend His Son, Jesus Christ, by faith. The Holy Ghost seals that, everything is related to that.”

Very good sermon by Major Ian Thomas:

Jehoshaphat ”“ "Faith cometh by Hearing"

http://ia801605.us.archive.org/5/items/SERMONINDEX_SID26481/SID26481.mp3

Here is the real question - how do I experience this union with God in Christ?

You DO NOT enter into union with the Lord Jesus Christ. You are incapable of doing such a thing. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Try for the rest of your life and you will never know Jesus as He really is.

Here is the truth - God has already united you with Christ Jesus. That is your present reality

1 Corinthians 1:30

New International Version (©1984) "It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."

New Living Translation (©2007) "God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; He made us pure and holy, and He freed us from sin."

Basically, many Christians are trying to get what they already have in Christ. They are trying to get into a room that they are already in. Christians are striving to improve themselves instead of resting in the power of His resurrection life. If we understood what the Bible declares to be true, then there is no self to improve. For a "dead man" can't be improved. "You are dead, and Christ is your life..." (Col. 3:3-4). God doesn't want improved nor recommitted people. He wants dead people. Why? You can't be raised with Christ if you are not dead.

Salvation is one thing and one thing alone and that is the PERSON of Christ living in you NOW. Jesus has entered into union with you!! You will never know Jesus in His power until you first accept Him as having already come unto union with all of your human weakness and inability. Jesus Himself NOW lives in you as you.

How do you start on your journey towards knowing this Jesus who is living inside you? It is so simple that many of us have missed it. Just embrace the fact of reality of the True Lord Jesus Christ, the Sustainer of everything, the One-Seed Son of God, lives inside your heart NOW!! Think, now, about this present fact, this is our first step of "believing in Jesus." First - "You believe in God, believe also in Me" and then - "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me" (John 14:1 & 11).

He is your Continuous Connection. Now Jesus lives in your heart in all that He is, and if the Father, that is, God the All-Carrying One, lives inside of Jesus, then - God Himself lives inside of you. The Father is in Jesus in you. Now that's a big deal. - God is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29).

Right now you will know these words are coming into you as the Holy Spirit writing the Lord Jesus Christ upon your heart. Word and Spirit are ALWAYS together. Word without Spirit cannot be of God. Spirit without Word cannot be of God. Word and Spirit are always together, yet Word always leads, yet Spirit goes before to prepare the way for Word. Your ability, now, to believe that God is telling you the truth when He speaks concerning you, that ability is a miracle and gift of the Holy Spirit.

Christ lives in your heart through faith. Do you KNOW what God is telling you now is the truth through these words? Now just receive these words coming into you through faith to be Jesus in Person living inside your heart, then you have been touched by a miracle of God and the power of the Holy Spirit is overshadowing you. This Jesus living inside of you is the very same Jesus that was conceived inside of Mary.

Just take God at His word. You can do this NOW. You are being drawn by the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is opening your eyes to this existing reality of Christ living within you. He has established you in love. He has totally qualified you and made you worthy. You are rooted and grounded in His Love. The veil over your eyes has been lifted. Now just embrace that fact any boldly speak something like this out loud. "I do believe you God. I take you at your Word. You alone have made me one with Christ and made me one with you. This union I now have was not the result of my efforts or energy, In fact it has nothing to do with me at all but what YOU did IN CHRIST Jesus Christ Is Now my LIFE- He Now lives inside of me. His Life is the only life I have. I can never be separated from Him".

Did you do that? You can do it NOW!!

There is a LIVING river of His Life and Love right now inside you and it near ceases. In fact this Life just keeps growing, expanding and unfolding every second. Nothing can stop it from growing, expanding or unfolding because it is CHRIST HIMSELF!! The devil can not stop it. Circumstances can not stop it. Your feelings and emotions can not stop it. You can not stop it even if you wanted to.

Do not forget that the only way for the Spirit's transforming power to be activated in us is by simply believing what God says instead of striving to become who we already are. Once we respond to Gods truth concerning us we believe, then Truth (Jesus) will takes us over and takes hold of is by His Holy Spirit and transform us into the new persons we already are, thereby causing us to spontaneously manifest righteousness.

God has given us this eternal life by putting us in Christ and given us His Holy Spirit to live in us and through the agency of the Holy Spirit we know the reality of Christ in us. Because Christ is in us, as He is, we are. TRUE FAITH is being fully assured that God's promise of eternal life to us through Christ in us by the Holy Spirit is YES! SO BE IT!!

John 17:3 - "This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."

If you want to muddle up this issue some more, consider:

1 Chronicles 1:32: Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.

It seems as though Abraham sired these children after Sarah's death. But when he was old and Sarah still living, "he considered his body good as dead" which could indicate a health issue that made him think he could no longer sire a child. On the other hand, there is faith/hope: all physical evidence would indicate the impossible but hope means God will work in spite of it, proving he is the Creator still. In Abraham's case faith meant he will still try and expect God to work when the evidence was such it could not be otherwise.

My understanding. What say?

Sandra,

(1)
"But when he was old and Sarah still living, ‘he considered his body good as dead’ which could indicate a health issue that made him think he could no longer sire a child.”

My Comment:

The Bible says:
Rom. 4:19 -- ……he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead ((((( since he was about a hundred years old )))))……

The reason why Abraham considered his body as good as dead was OLD AGE, NOT ill-health.

Life in Christ ascends from glory to glory. It is life without end.

Life in self is descends from futility to futility. It is life with death at its end.

(2)
"In Abraham's case faith meant he will still try and expect God to work when the evidence was such it could not be otherwise.”

My Comment:

The Bible says:
Rom. 4:20-21 -- yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

Abraham‘s faith did NOT mean that "he was still trying to expect God to work” BUT he was FULLY ASSURED !!! that what God had promised, He was also able to perform.

(3)
"1 Chronicles 1:32: Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham's concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan.”

SOME THOUGHTS

Abraham has only ONE true seed which is Christ.

Gal. 3:16 -- Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

We are Abraham’s seed IN CHRIST.

Gal. 3:26 -- For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Isaac is the representation.

Gal. 4:28 -- And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.

THROUGH CHRIST, Abraham became the father of a multitude of nations.

The sons of Keturah are not sons of the promise because only Isaac is.

They were not fellow heirs of Abraham with Isaac and were sent away.

Gen. 25:5 -- Now Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac; but to the sons of his concubines, Abraham gave gifts while he was still living, and sent them away from his son Isaac eastward, to the land of the east.

They were not sons of Sarah, the "free woman” in Gal. 4:31, therefore not of the "Jerusalem above” (Gal. 4:26).

They do not represent sons of God IN Christ, Abraham’s true seed, which is represented by Isaac. They do not represent heirs of God according to promise.

Gal. 3:29 -- And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendants, heirs according to promise.

Rom. 8:16-17 -- The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I see them representing Christians who are apart from Christ, Christian who are not branches in the True Vine, Christians who are not abiding in Christ and Christ is not in them.

Consider Midian, the fourth son of Keturah (Gen. 25:1-2). He was an enemy of the descendants of Isaac as shown in the following scripture:

(i)
Connection with Ishmaelites

Joseph was sold by his brothers to traders going to Egypt. In the Genesis account of this event, the Midianites and Ishmaelites are so intermingled they seem to have the same identity.

Gen. 37:25 ”“ Then they sat down to eat a meal. And as they raised their eyes and looked, behold, a caravan of Ishmaelites was coming from Gilead, with their camels bearing aromatic gum and balm and myrrh, on their way to bring them down to Egypt.

Gen. 37:26-28 ”“ Judah said to his brothers, "What profit is it for us to kill our brother and cover up his blood? "Come and let us sell him to the Ishmaelites and not lay our hands on him, for he is our brother, our own flesh." And his brothers listened to him. Then some Midianite traders passed by, so they pulled him up and lifted Joseph out of the pit, and sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty shekels of silver. Thus they brought Joseph into Egypt.

Gen. 37:36 -- Meanwhile, the Midianites sold him in Egypt to Potiphar, Pharaoh's officer, the captain of the bodyguard.

(ii)
Connection with Moabites

Num. 22:1-7
Elders from Moab and Midian were sent by Balak, king of Moab, to employ Balaam to curse Israel.

Num. 25:6-15
A son of Israel joined himself with a Midianite woman. They were slain by Phinehas the son of Eleazer, the son of Aaron, and the plague which had killed 24 000 was checked.

Num. 31:1-20
Israel waged war again Midian, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. And they killed every male and, also, every woman who had known man intimately. And Balaam was also killed in that war.

(iii)
Connection with Amalekites

Judg. 6:1-8:28
The Midianites joined the Amalekites and the "sons of the east” to oppress Israel by coming up "like locusts” to destroy their produce at harvest time.

My Comment:

Abraham had other children who were not children of the promise.

They had no share in Isaac’s inheritance.

They were sent away.

Are we IN Christ, Abraham’s true seed?

The Church at Ephesus had many good works but had lost their first love. They needed to repent or their lampstand would be removed out of its place (Rev. 2:1-7).

The Church at Laodicea considered themselves rich (riches can also be religious riches) but Christ was not within.
Rev. 3:20 ”“ Beholod, I stand at the door and knock……

2 Cor. 13:5 (KJV) -- Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

John 15:4-6 -- Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Major Ian Thomas:

"The surest way of reckoning ourselves dead to sin and to our old Adamic nature is to reckon ourselves alive in Jesus Christ and to be continually dependent on Him.”

"……without Me you can do nothing. So how much is it worth that you do that isn’t Jesus doing? Nothing. The truth is that Jesus alone can and we can’t. And that is the principle of the Christian life whereby you will reign in Christ Jesus moment by moment more than conquerors. In every situation, threat, opportunity and responsibility, you say, "I can’t”. You never say ‘I could’. But, ‘You can’, whose strength is made perfect in our weakness. And you always say, ‘You would’……That is what the Bible calls faith.”

The word reckon is a banking word. It means you can count on money in the bank when you go shopping. You can write checks because there's money in the bank. Reckoning doesn't put money in the bank. But counting on the fact that there is money in the bank will free you to write checks. After explaining that we have died and been raised with Christ, Paul said, "Even so consider [reckon] yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:11).

You are dead to sin. You are alive to God. Reckoning doesn't make it so. It is already so. But reckoning allows you to live out of the fact that it is so. God says you are a brand-new creature. The old one died. You don't look dead, you don't feel dead, you don't always act dead, but are you going to agree with God or are you going to debate Him? You may debate Him, but you're going to lose the debate. It's not worth it. So in a simple act of faith you agree with God: "I read that, and it sounds too good to be true, but I'm going to believe that. I'm going to take God at His Word and count it as so."

It is extremely important for you to know that it was totally by God's doing that you are NOW one with Him. He put you in union with Christ. You DO NOT enter into union with the Lord Jesus Christ. You are incapable of doing such a thing. It is IMPOSSIBLE. Try for the rest of your life and you will never know Jesus as He really is.

1 Cor. 1:30, "God has united you with Christ Jesus. For our benefit God made him to be wisdom itself. Christ made us right with God; He made us pure and holy, and He freed us from sin." New Living Translation (©2007)

Good post, Vern.