dougr777
Oct 3, 2018
I was listening to a Paul Washer sermon recently and he said that this phrase, "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is heresy and unbiblical, and he mentioned Psalm 5.
Thoughts?
I was listening to a Paul Washer sermon recently and he said that this phrase, "Love the sinner, hate the sin" is heresy and unbiblical, and he mentioned Psalm 5.
Thoughts?
I don’t believe imprecatory prayers like Psalm 5 are meant for the NT believer. I have been tempted to pray such prayers against people but instead I pray such prayers against the schemes of wicked men.
I think we need to pray that the wicked will repent, not that fire and brimstone will fall on them.
2 Chronicles 19:2
the prophet Jehu son of Hanani confronted him; he said to King Jehoshaphat, "Should you be helping those who are wicked, yes or no? Should you love those who hate the LORD? Wrath is headed your way directly from the LORD because of this.
Psalm 139:19-24
O that Thou wouldst slay the wicked, O God;
Depart from me, therefore, men of bloodshed.
For they speak against Thee wickedly,
And Thine enemies take Thy name in vain.
Do I not hate those who hate Thee, O LORD?
And do I not loathe those who rise up against Thee?
I hate them with the utmost hatred;
They have become my enemies.
Search me, O God, and know my heart;
Try me and know my anxious thoughts;
And see if there be any hurtful way in me,
And lead me in the everlasting way.
Vengeance is Mine saith the LORD, I will repay!
For now, let us heap coals of fire upon their heads as Jesus taught us.
KILL me with kindness...and cure me of my blindness!
Here is a quote from a text sermon on SI-
"
Note that all of the above-quoted scriptures do not say that God only hates what people do””they say He hates them.We cannot separate a person from what he does.What a person does reveals his character””who he is. Thus if God disapproves of sin He of course must disapprove of sinners. God is so pure that His disapproval is very strong, and the word hate describes it well.To separate the sin from the sinner by saying "God loves the sinner but hates the sin" is potentially misleading.
Other scriptures declare that certain people””not just what those people do””are an abomination to God.See, for example, Deut. 22:5, 16; Lev. 26:29-30; Ps. 5:5-6; Prov. 3:32, 11:20, 16:5, 17:15. Beyond that, there are many other expressions of God's hatred of certain people in Scripture. For example, when we read, "the Lord did not turn from the fierceness of His great wrath with which His anger burned against Judah" (2 Kin. 23:26), we don't get the impression that we are reading about God's love for sinners.
Regrettably,very little is said of God's hatred or abhorrence of sinners among modern Christians. Most preachers, it seems, emphasize God's love for sinners, and their audiences consequently are often misled into thinking that God approves of them in spite of their sin, which couldn't be further from the truth. The truth is that God utterly hates them, but He is mercifully giving them time to repent and gain His approval before they die, and only in that sense does He love them. When they die His mercy ends, and they will then experience the fullness of His hatred. The people in hell do not think that God loves them. They all know that He utterly hates them. And the truth is that when they were alive He hated them just as thoroughly, but then He showed them mercy, or merciful love. If unrepentant people who are still alive knew how much God hates them, they would be astounded at His merciful love towards them."
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=38281
Well one thing is for sure”” God hates what that guy said about Him.
Brother Doug,
Honestly think it’s a "both and” more than an "either or”....
I do get what brother Washer is saying, so did Ravenhill, so did Finney etc... (and I really like all those preachers) I believe what they are saying is you can’t separate the action from the doer- meaning murder (sin) can’t be punished but rather the murderer (sinner) is ... I get it and agree with the premise. Also agreeing that in general it does seem contrary to Biblical teachings.
But ... Paul (the apostle) tells us in Ephesians 6 to basically "play the ball and not the man”, drawing a sharp contrast and departure from classical biblical text by clearly separating "flesh/man” from "powers/principalities”. Here is a place, and not the only one, where "love the sinner- hate the sin” has merit, biblically speaking.
The ability to separate the action and actioner, is in my opinion, a mark of maturity.
However I do sincerely believe that the employment of that cliche quote has done significant damage to the body of Christ as it appears to be easily misunderstood/misapplied and as a result has a secondary distracting influence.
So (for me) its a quite interesting circumstance as it very well may turn out that it’s actually accurate in relating to the world vs other believers ... as there are two totally different protocols outlined in scripture.
"You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation." (Romans 5:6-11)
When you take these teachings to the extreme and not bring in the love of God for sinners, then this is what you will end up with.
If we determine that God hates sinners, we would be right, if we determine God loves the world of sinners we would be right. So, how to reconcile these two?
For me, I don't need to reconcile them, they are not at odd with each other. God had declared his hatred for sinners and God has declared his love for them. As Fletcher well said its a mark of maturity in the believer to allow both of these truths to guide and inform him.
What I cannot do is pretend to know the secret mind of God about a person who is a lost sinner. I cannot pretend that all is well because he is as far as sinners go a 'good man', I cannot pretend that because he is a lost sinner he is hated of God without remedy and must needs enter hell fire.
What I am instructed to do in scripture is to be merciful as my Father is merciful, to be kind and compassionate as God is kind and compassionate, to be gracious and forgiving as God is gracious and forgiving. Jesus exemplified this approach with sinners. Instead of approaching them as objects of hatred, Jesus approached them as we should approach them, sinful humans that are trapped in fallen human nature and sinful lusts that will destroy them.
We do not sugar-coat the human condition, those who are lost are under wrath...that's a fact. Those who are lost are yet obtaining new mercies everyday...that's a fact.
Our commission is to bring the truth of Jesus Christ to bear upon their lives. Our commission is to bring the truth of their own sinful hearts and alienated condition to the forefront. God's hatred for sin is not merely the 'attitude' of God toward sinners it is revealed in declared judgments to come upon the lost sinner. God's hatred of sin and sinner is never stand-alone, it's intermixed with God's lovingkindness and mercies whereby God may have hated Marvin and his sin, yet God chose to reveal Christ to me and turn me away from an object of wrath to a possessor of grace and mercy.
It is no more right to declare God's hatred of sinners as stand-alone truth, than it is to declare God's love for sinners as stand-alone truth. In either case the truth about ourselves and God would be hidden or corrupted. Both realities should be declared.
As mike quoted Romans 5, that text encapsulates the new covenant mindset of gospel ministry and we should abide in the new covenant mind never the old.
"Love the sinner, hate the sin", Can someone clarify in what context Mr. Washer spoke of this?
There was another Paul in the bible, and there was David, from Genesis to NT you will read about sins and wickedness of men, of you and me.
But what really Jesus told us or have shown us, is the bible the ultimate book of hatred, what is then our hope.
No one indeed can demand love from our Maker, but who are we to think above our fellowmen , our fellow-sinners.
Dear Saints,
When we watch this video about the life of John Hyde often known as 'Praying John Hyde' we see not only his love for souls, but also God's love for souls, as God was the one motivating him to pray for souls. What a wonderful thing it would be to have that burden for souls that John Hyde had. Praise God, as I believe He can do it again!
Love in Christ,
John
St. Augustine wrote in one of his letters to a group of nuns, "have love for mankind and hatred of sins”.
Mahatma Gandhi wrote in his autobiography:
"Hate the sin and not the sinner."
Here is the full quote:
"Hate the sin and not the sinner is a precept which, though easy enough to understand, is rarely practiced, and that is why the poison of hatred spreads in the world.”
The phrase has become a byword now, and being used for self-serving and compassionate disposition. Personally, I would shy from using it to elaborate christian view. This is not a precise formula to summarize the Divine grace & judgement.
However, let us remember that we are not divine but mortals and we do not have the prerogative of God. On-demand spiritual discernment and discretion would be needed in many situations as they arise and it may not perfectly follow a general wisdom.
Hi All
Sin is not to be taken lightly as it is hated and an enemy to God. Sin is anti-love as it is self-love in nature, full of rebellion against our father.
We can see the sin of people either by Gods illuminating light or the Sin is so overflowing in someones soul that it is reflected in the natural. As we have all come from this it is the deep revelation of our own depth of sin that gives the awnser to our response to others. It is the revelation of Gods grace on our own lives that our wretchedness is revealed driving us daily to carry our cross.
When we can humbly say that "I am the greatest Sinner of all" it is then that we pray fervently in tears and minister to the lost who are overcome and lost in the world by the same enemy that once enslaved us. Knowing that by the pure grace and mercy of the Lord we have been chosen to do so.
I warn people of the dangers of Adultery as i payed the wages for this and lost my children and wives. I have destroyed lives through acts of sin that i didn't even consider as bad. but as i stood before Gods pure light i saw who I am with out Christ and can no longer boast of having anything good in me. It is God alone that is good and it is him that lives in me. My love is for fellow prisoners of sin and sharing the good news of a kingdom that endures forever. For thus is the very reason Christ came.
Thank you for that video John. I just read a short autobiography on Praying Hyde. Moving to say the least.
By the way, welcome to SermonIndex, brother.
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