Liturgical or revivalist?

What type of church service do you prefer?

The revivalist type or the liturgical type?

Revivalism became very popular with Charles Finny and I know he is esteemed by many revivalist. I once esteemed him high as well until I found some shocking things about his belief such as

He dismissed original sin as a doctrine unworthy of God. He threw overboard the conventional understanding of Christ’s atonement (in which the life and death of Jesus are imputed to the elect) in favor of a governmental theory of the atonement, which merely held that Jesus’ death made it allowable for God to forgive sinners if they made themselves righteous by faith.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/history/issues/issue-20/making-of-revivalist.html

Regardless do you support revivalism or liturgy or vice versa or does it matter?

For me it is a hard place because in the liturgy there is more words spoken and preached then in revivalism and the emotional aspect is left out in liturgy BUT in liturgy the call to repentance is a group thing and some get lost in the crowd through it by simply going through the motions.

In revivalism there is always the call to repent but there is also an emotional aspect to it. Usually always an altar call with music as a background but many people have the idea that they have to do something for God in this context when it comes to salvation............... it asks the questions is God alone the one who saves or do we have a part to play in salvation?

What are your thoughts?

John

I had someone share with me some revivalist churches actually beginning to incorporate liturgy into their services.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2013/09/baptists-embracing-the-liturgy/

https://www.worshiptraining.com/media/the-liturgical-charismatic-movement/

I grew up in the Lutheran church but at age 20 I became a believer. I went back but then left because I didn't sense a zeal with the Lutheran church and found myself going to an AG church.

Now as I have gotten older I am finding myself attracted to the liturgical service a little more but when I became a believer it was through a revivalist meeting but it wasn't a church service.

//In revivalism there is always the call to repent but there is also an emotional aspect to it. Usually always an altar call with music as a background but many people have the idea that they have to do something for God in this context when it comes to salvation............... it asks the questions is God alone the one who saves or do we have a part to play in salvation?//

If a person does not repent, no one is going to do it for him.

It was the first thing out of Jesus’ mouth in his public ministry:

"Now after John was arrested, Jesus came into Galilee, proclaiming the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.”
Mark 1:14-15

As far as liturgy, I also like it now and again. The baptist church we attend has a quite liturgical service and a contemporary service. I’d go to the liturgical service if they had that incense. I like the smell.

Only one thing should matter to any child of God when he or she goes to church: the manifest presence of God.

If a church has this, I don't care whether it is liturgical, revivalist, traditional or whatever; I'll go.

If a church doesn't have this, bulldoze it.

(Sorry if that sounds harsh, but the way I see it, without the manifest, convicting, holy presence of Jesus Christ, churches are worse than a waste of time, they are a stumbling block to the unconverted and a social club at best for nominal christians.)

I attended a Greek Orthodox service one time. Already knowing I likely disagreed with some of their theology I nonetheless went out of curiosity. I had tears in my eyes and could hardly speak when I left. It was one of the most beautiful services I had ever been in. The singing was out of this word as you might say and something profoundly spiritual went off in me. This liturgical service lasted over three hours and when it was time to leave I felt like I had only been there about 20 minutes! A usher told me the singing was of songs that were sung today the same as they were 2,000 years ago. It had a large flavor of Gregorian chant or something akin in the singing and it was beautiful and very moving spiritual wise. I was dumbfounded and knew I had been taken into the presence of God. I went back a few times. I find myself wishing at times that the charismatic world or whatever you may want to call it these days could somehow find out about this type of liturgical treasure.

John: I have been thinking about your post. Not to say anything against it, that is not my heart, but I wonder if the premise is not faulty. The question is what type of service structure do we prefer. But I think that question belies a huge problem in the body of Christ. We seek (and I am not saying this about you brother, just in general) to have things work out to our desires and preferences. We have fought over music styles, service styles, whether we wear suits or shorts, etc.. But doesn't the very fact that the argument exists prove that we are after the flesh and not after the Spirit? From whence come wars and fighting among you?

What if we waited on God to find out what He wants us to do each and every time we meet?

Travis said..
What if we waited on God to find out what He wants us to do each and every time we meet?

You cant get in by 11 and out by noon to beat the Baptists to the buffet if you do that.

I read something...I don't remember is if it was on this website or another but it went like "we go to Church without the slightest inclination to hear what is said and put it into action".

This thought has repeated itself over and over in my mind in the last couple of months, I believe it wholeheartedly and I hate the idea that people do that and I hate the truth that I am guilty of it myself. It is this sin that causes me to conclude that whatever failures may exist in our local Churches, it is due to that sin and I am part of the problem. God have mercy.

twayneb

What if we waited on God to find out what He wants us to do each and every time we meet?

One thing that gives us a bit of a clue on this is what types of services do we see during the bulk of Christian history? Is it revivalism type services? Liturgies or something else? Revivalism is actually a new type of thing in Christendom.

docs mentioned going to a Greek Orthodox service and marveled of what happened there and for 3 hours. That would make a Charismatic face blush and yet Greek Orthodox has been there since near the beginning and keeps on going. I often wonder what we can learn about liturgies vs what we see in the regular revivalist styles?

I have an inner fight with the liturgy part because sometimes it makes me feel as if I am in a straight jacket yet it keeps ones heart and mind focused and doesn't allow for spontaneous stuff like a revivalist service would invite and in that it is probably a good thing because it keeps out false spirits who seek to make the service into a circus.

John

I have to be honest brother, I am not even sure what a "revivalism" type service is. I have never heard of it before. If what you mean is, "the opposite of liturgical", then I might have a better idea, but still am not sure what you mean. But it sounds to me like you are describing something more akin to television charismatic.

But that is my point. We are seeking to classify services by types and then talk about what type we prefer and give our list of reasons or arguments for or against this type or that type of service. But what happens when we simply ask God what He wants to have happen and allow ourselves to be open to His leading and obedient to His voice.

I was in a service recently where we worshipped the Lord, his presence came in power, and we spent 30 minutes in total silence before Him. No preaching, no teaching, just His presence in power. You could hear people weeping before Him as He dealt with their hearts.

I was also in a service recently where the Lord told the pastor, "I want two songs, that is it, and then I want you to teach what I have given you." It was a service that focused on exposition of the word of God and it bore great fruit.

I was in a service recently where the Holy Spirit delivered a message in tongues through a sweet and Godly lady in our midst. Funny, she did not stand nor was she loud . She began to quietly speak in tongues during worship. The musician sensed the Lord leading her to stop playing and immediately stopped, although she could not initially hear the lady due to sitting at the keyboard with a monitor near her. The entire building suddenly hushed as God's presence was almost palpable. The interpretation came, people responded to God, came forward for prayer, and great fruit came of it as they were ministered to by the Lord.

I have also been in services recently where we sang, and taught much as we do most services.

My point is this. I am not at all convinced that God is the least bit concerned about liturgy nor is He concerned about revivalism. I think most discussions and even debates about these things come from our having a preference. I believe God is not at all interested in our preference. I believe God is concerned about seeing His will done in His body to grow and mature it. Hence the question, "What if we simply asked Him each service what He wants us to do?", and then we did it to the best of our ability in obedience. What impact would that make in our services?

By the way, I wanted to add this. I have seen some really strange and fleshly stuff happen in services because people thought it needed to be done in such and such a way. I remember one service where myself and another brother thought the message was good. There was a time of personal prayer ministry at the end and we thought, "Sure, we will be prayed for." I had one lady lay her hands on me and begin shaking rapidly. The man with her was rubbing my back. I though, "Will they stop, or do I need to say something?" Finally, I realized there was only one way out of the situation. I interrupted them and said, "No offense, but with you guys shaking me and rubbing me, there is no way I could receive from God if I tried. This is really not a good way to try to minister to people." They looked at me with a blank, somewhat shocked and glazed look. They never said one word. They simply turned to the next person and started the whole process over again on that person. I looked around and my friend had abandoned me. When found him sitting in a pew, I asked him why he had left me. He said, "because I could see that I was next." We still laugh about it to this day, but it highlighted something very sad. People get caught up on the flesh, thinking it is somehow spiritual. What if we really could die to our flesh and simply allow the Spirit of God to lead?