True or False?

Reckless Love- Cory Asbury

Before I spoke a word, You were singing over me
You have been so, so good to me
Before I took a breath, You breathed Your life in me
You have been so, so kind to me

Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God
Oh, it chases me down, fights 'til I'm found, leaves the ninety-nine
I couldn't earn it, and I don't deserve it, still, You give Yourself away
Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God, yeah

When I was Your foe, still Your love fought for me
You have been so, so good to me
When I felt no worth, You paid it all for me
You have been so, so kind to me

And oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God
Oh, it chases me down, fights 'til I'm found, leaves the ninety-nine
And I couldn't earn it, and I don't deserve it, still, You give Yourself away
Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God, yeah

There's no shadow You won't light up
Mountain You won't climb up
Coming after me
There's no wall You won't kick down
Lie You won't tear down
Coming after me
There's no shadow You won't light up
Mountain You won't climb up
Coming after me
There's no wall You won't kick down
Lie You won't tear down
Coming after me
There's no shadow You won't light up
Mountain You won't climb up
Coming after me
There's no wall You won't kick down
Lie You won't tear down
Coming after me
There's no shadow You won't light up
Mountain You won't climb up
Coming after me
There's no wall You won't kick down
Lie You won't tear down
Coming after me

Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God
Oh, it chases me down, fights 'til I'm found, leaves the ninety-nine
And I couldn't earn it, I don't deserve it, still, You give Yourself away
Oh, the overwhelming, never-ending, reckless love of God,

https://youtu.be/hUIpbyCvbI8

The love of God truly passes knowledge.

But, to truly know the love of God is to have this fruit:

Eph. 3:19 ”“
and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

In Christ all the fullness of God dwells.

Col. 1:19 ”“
For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,

Col. 2:9 (KJV) ”“
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

If we truly know the love of God, we will be filled up to all the fullness of God, that is, filled up with Christ, that is, Christ is in us.

John 17:26 ”“
and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them

Col. 3:10 (Young’s Literal Translation) ”“
and ye are in him made full, who is the head of all principality and authority,

ADD:

Christ will be formed in us (Gal. 4:19).

Response by John Piper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbhz2GkU2zs

Well……this is what the Bible says about God’s love:

John 3:16 ”“
For God so loved ((((( the world ))))), that He gave His only begotten Son, that ((((( whoever ))))) believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Barnes Notes on the Bible: The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die.

Pulpit Commentary: For God so loved the world. The Divine love to the whole of humanity in its condition of supreme need

But I do not want to be embroiled in another debate on Calvin’s predestination.

Even if we were to be open-minded regarding the word "reckless”, the song tells only half the story because God’s love has a definite and glorious objective:

Eph. 2:4-7 --
But God, being rich in mercy, ((((( because of His great love with which He loved us, ))))) even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

"And behold, the half was not told me.”

This is a far better song with real depth:

HERE IS LOVE HYMN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdYAPBLQMWA

Here is love, vast as the ocean,
Lovingkindness as the flood,
When the Prince of Life, our Ransom,
Shed for us His precious blood.
Who His love will not remember?
Who can cease to sing His praise?
He can never be forgotten,
Throughout Heav’n’s eternal days.

On the mount of crucifixion,
Fountains opened deep and wide;
Through the floodgates of God’s mercy
Flowed a vast and gracious tide.
Grace and love, like mighty rivers,
Poured incessant from above,
And Heav’n’s peace and perfect justice
Kissed a guilty world in love
.
Let me all Thy love accepting,
Love Thee, ever all my days;
Let me seek Thy kingdom only
And my life be to Thy praise;
Thou alone shalt be my glory,
Nothing in the world I see.
Thou hast cleansed and sanctified me,
Thou Thyself hast set me free.

In Thy truth Thou dost direct me
By Thy Spirit through Thy Word;
And Thy grace my need is meeting,
As I trust in Thee, my Lord.
Of Thy fullness Thou art pouring
Thy great love and power on me,
Without measure, full and boundless,
Drawing out my heart to Thee.

1 John 4:16 --
God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.

Jade,

Doesn’t it really matter when we change just (1) Word here, and (1) Word there?,...
By changing just (1) word, ...can’t it take us to a whole new meaning,... take us in a direction that is false( lie),..a deception,.. and not true (Truth) ?

At this point, I am thinking about this specific word,
"SHALL”, vs "SHOULD " ,.. in. Scripture verse below of Jn. 3:16,that , I see many write..
Why was this Word changed ? And who changed this Word ?

John 3:16 ”“
For God so loved ((((( the world ))))), that He gave His only begotten Son, that ((((( whoever ))))) believes in Him "SHALL” not perish, but have eternal life.

Todd,
I am questioning the words in this song, and their leadings.
The Lord does draw us (Grace) by His Spirit, But we have a part in this,.. as He lets us choose.
This song writer sounds as it it is ALL The Lord, and there is NO ending,
But we know The Lord will not strive with us always,.. that the door can be shut.,... and that we can reject Him.
And although it is freely given, it also comes with an obligation,, to hear His voice and to follow Him,... (Abrahamic faith)
So I would say about this song ,...????

””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

E-

I certainly agree with your sentiment and it does seem that the song stops just a tad short- although I really hadn’t thought about that before. I guess one response to this criticism might be that the songwriter was only expressing God’s attitude and his intention was to stop there. Maybe some day he will write a song that expresses our side and our responsibility.

But, also addressing your point, John Piper says he can easily sing this song wholeheartedly through his Calvinist lens because it IS all God’s doing (namely, unconditional election, irresistible grace).

I certainly don’t know the songwriter’s background but I doubt he wrote the song as a paean to reformed theology. I think he wrote it because that is how he perceived God’s love for and pursuit of him while he was still a rebel and foe.

The main reason I posted the lyrics was because a while back an article was posted here and the author went to great lengths to explain how much God hates sinners””not just sin”” but sinners.

Obviously God either hates sinners or he loves them- he can’t do both at the same time.

To me, its a tempest in a tea pot.

the hub bub about "reckless" is over done. The term 'reckless' is an anthropomorphism that from a human-perspective God's love is simply too much, its too extreme, its goes way beyond the normalcy of sacrifice and desire...no one does so much for an enemy.

Yet, the remainder of the song has little debate. I didn't know so many reformed folks are out there?

It's good there are songs like this out there, the old songs played like a death dirge get little attention.

I agree Marvin.

We have been singing this in church on occasion and I think it’s pretty powerful.

There are songs about Gods love that I cannot stomach (or at least parts of the songs) like the line in "He Loves Us” ”” "so heaven meets earth like a sloppy wet kiss” that has been sanitized for radio versions of the song to "unforeseen kiss.” But every time I hear it I think of that sickeningly line so the song is forever ruined for me at least.

Romans 5:5 could read "Because the love of God has been squandered and continues in that condition within our hearts by means of the Holy Spirit, Him having been devoted to us."

Elizabeth,

That was from the New American Standard Bible. Guess you have to write to them to complain?

Maybe someone with good knowledge of Greek can help?

Anyway....how has "shall" falsified the verse?

If you have never backslid from God (no matter what you believe about backsliding) and turned away for what ever reason, these words have no meaning for you...

"When I was Your foe, still Your love fought for me"

When the Lord actually leaves the 99 and woos you back to Him but you are so full of shame and guilt, then these words have no meaning for you and no grateful tears will fall from your eyes...

"When I felt no worth, You paid it all for me
You have been so, so kind to me

There's no shadow You won't light up
Mountain You won't climb up
Coming after me
There's no wall You won't kick down
Lie You won't tear down
Coming after me"

Brother Todd,

Being completely honest I haven’t heard this song yet but I like Cory’s music. Having said that this type of song (for me) is indicative of a fully formed counterfeit gospel that has been, like yeast, slowly taking over the whole lump and changing it into something different than it was-
note how, in the song, the individual is the focus of Gods love and that this itself is presented as a "gospel” of sorts.... like look here at how "God”, the supreme being of the universe, the ultimate creator of all things has his sights set on "me” and is pursuing "me” and won’t let "me” go no matter what I do, etc.... now I would submit that this is not the gospel of Christ’s kingdom but is the gospel of "me”- a narcissistic gospel where "we” are the object/subject effectively, tho subtlety, replacing Christ Jesus in the context of the narrative. Now if we look closely at the scriptures (as opposed to traditions) it’s not really about "us” as individuals so much as it is about "us” in the context of being the body of Christ. We only have value in being the recovered/formed body of Christ and even then it’s not "about us” but is completely about Jesus. So when the "love of God gospel” is preached or sang - it, while possibly being well intended, falls fatally short of the truth as it ultimately seeks to replace Christ with man as the object of Gods primary affection. For example; "the love of God” is found in the last verse of John 17.... this is the "love of God” referred to in Romans 5:5 / Ephesians 3:19 and elsewhere as it’s squarely the love OF God/Christ not the the love for Him- meaning it’s the pure holy love by which the godhead itself subsists and of which we are partakers of, being transformed by it in direct proportion to the extent we share in it, yielding ourselves to it... and it is this that our Lord has gone "all in” on to convince the world that Christ has come. Somewhere along the way the true gospel of Christ has been replaced with the narcissistic gospel of gods love for me.... which again like yeast as spread throughout the lump/body causing what can be referred to as an autoimmune disorder where the body attacks itself resulting in the exact opposite of the prayers of Jesus in John 17.
So to not be cynically pointing out problems without offering solutions-
The simple remedy for this is simply for each individual member of Christ’s body to listen to, submit to and obey the Head/Christ alone and none other. While it’s easy to say that we are doing this, the evidence for such is readily discernible by all, even those who are not part of the body as one is a selfish, self glorifying love and the other is a selfless Christ glorifying love. Ironically it seems that "Christians” have a harder time discerning this difference than the unbelieving world. One seeks to be submitted to the truth while the other seeks to control it....

Hey Fletcher-- I certainly understand your criticism and agree to a very large degree. That's why I said there are songs about God's love that make me queasy-- for the reasons you mention. Songs that use the term "romance" or "lover" don't sit right with me. I know people point to the Song of Solomon but I don't care- it still bothers me.

The specific song in question struck a chord with me for basically the reasons Lisa mentions. When I was a rebel in my 20s and running away from God, He never stopped chasing me down to bring me back. His drawing and pressure to pursue me was unmistakable and I am very thankful for His mercies. He would have been perfectly justified in shaking the dust off his sandals and moving on.

Amen!!
And Yes God be praised for His faithfulness:))))
I too like most others have experienced the elementary aspects of the song regarding Gods faithfulness to forsake the 99... and without that where would any of us be??? Lost for sure!
However while this aspect should surely be included, if it becomes the primary focus then something sacred, something fundamentally holy and pure is lost in the mix,... because it is in fact being mixed with what is commonly referred to as humanism- with humanism itself being the yeast in the lump.
Something I have noticed is on the rise, not only within the church/body but also in the world at large- is the rise of humanism and if we aren’t mindful we ourselves will become leavened by its influence.
Having said this, I too, as many others have noted, long for songs including our obedience/participation in His plan as they are distinctly absent in today’s corporate controlled "Christian for profit” music industry where most praise songs are really just cheap rip-offs of popular worldly music- nothing real or authentic just insert "Jesus” here or there to tap a broader market:/
Unfortunately the majority drink it up like koolaide never questioning the ingredients or their potential effects-
Perhaps the "falling away” isn’t an obvious event with a bang but is a slow fade, like a cancer quietly eating away at the body, slowly but effectively rendering it ineffective to the cause for which it was created-

Todd,
Re: "Obviously God either hates sinners or he loves them- he can’t do both at the same time.”

We know that God loved us when we were yet sinners,.... we were born into sin. But we also know that He made a Way for us, through The Blood of His Son, to bring us to God,... back to The Word (God), and the power to do so,(The Way)

Rom.5:8,
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.”
(His Life that He is working IN us.)

Gal.2:18-21,
"For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.”
19 "For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.”

20 "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

21 "I DO NOT FRUSTRATE THE GRACE OF GOD: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.”

* (I do not frustrate this ‘Devine effluence,.. The Spirit of Grace,..that started drawing me to God(His Word,His Voice,at the first .)
(Now, through His Blood, He has brought me unto/ into His Spirit to draw/lead me,.....(I do not frustrate the Grace of God by going back to reading and trying to do the law/commandments).... I do not /no longer look to the written law / The written commandments,

...but I go to His Spirit of hearing / believing , ... obeying.)....which is faith.)
Faith in hearing from Him, faith in His leadings, ....drawing me to God,.. The Word.
I said all of that to say, He is calling us out of being a sinner, our original state,.. into >>>>the high calling of God,.. (The Word / Spirit)....Life.

Phil.3:10-14,
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11 "If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.”

12 "¶ Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.”

13 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.”

*Yes, this is the love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts,... His deep love for us,and our deep love for Him,.. as well as others..... an enter- working of Him to us and us to Him,.. to KNOW Him.

(Probably said way too much,.. get carried away.)

Lovingly ,
””””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

I like your posts, brother Fletcher.

Ps. 115:1 ”“
Not to us, O LORD, not to us,
But to Your name give glory
Because of Your lovingkindness, because of Your truth.

Christ is pre-eminent, not self.

Self is the arch-enemy of Christ.

Isn’t the New Age religion all about self? Self-centeredness. Self-exaltation. Self-glory. Self-power and self-sufficiency to attain self-perfection. And, to become a self-god in a self-created paradise.

Heb. 12:1-2 ”“
……let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith……

Jade,
Sorry I have not got back to you, but will try to explain as best I can now.

If I could understand the original writings and my lifetime would allow, I would go for reading / understanding of them.
But since I cannot, then I choose a writing of the Scriptures that go way back when men may have had more of the fear of The Lord in writing them.

(and PLEASE, I am not going to get into the controversy of Bible versions.)

But I find a distinct difference in the 2 words,..
‘shall’ and the word ‘should ‘

I would say ‘shall’ , would be like , SHALL ‘!!!’
Where as ‘should’, would be , ‘SHOULD, ‘???’

* Two different writings,...

Jn.3:16,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him ‘SHOULD NOT’ perish, but have everlasting life.”

(We SHOULD not perish, His supply for us is sufficient, for us not to perish)

Jn.3:16,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him ‘SHALL NOT’ perish, but have everlasting life.”

Whereas, the Scripture that says SHALL NOT perish, is definite...
period. !!!,... final.

I am glad you ask Jade,
””””””””-♥️
elizabeth

Elizabeth,

The NASB is considered an excellent Bible translation.

Unless someone can clearly show me that "shall” is a wrong translation of the original Greek text, I have no problem with it.

Yes! Our salvation is definite.

Acts 16:31 --

NASB: ……Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you ((((( will be ))))) saved……

KJV: ……Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou ((((( shalt be ))))) saved……

2 Cor. 1:20 ”“
For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us.

Amen!

Blessings.

Jade,
Please study and restudy,
This whole chapter,... (Jn.3:””-) and then please study ‘the whole of ‘Light ‘
and what is being said,..who or what is this Light,..
And what The Lord’ Name is,...

Then, with The Lord’ direction / teachings, you will know who this ‘Jesus’, that The Word of God, is really telling us to ‘Believe ‘ in

It is the real Jesus that God requires us to believe.
...now, I don’t mean at all to be harsh,, .. but see if it is not a Jesus of our imagination, or a teaching that we have long been taught of some sort.

God is Light, ...He is The Word,.. His Name is the whole word of God, His Father.

Rev.
"And His Name is called The Word of God”

* Words enlighten us,...is light, whether in reading this worlds knowledge.or teachings or of the Spiritual nature that we learn through The Spirit., ..
orThe Word of God.

He is calling / has called us to ‘see’ this great Light , .... Word,..among all else that He is and has done for us.

This is the real Jesus,... the Words of Jesus did not stop, as we know after Jn. 3:16, but He continued ...,when we can ‘‘believe’ in this Jesus, who preached the whole Words / counsel of His Father,God,...the whole Word of God, ...and what He says to us, ..Then the whole Word will flow together.

I hope this will help ,
””””””””””♥️
elizabeth