Having been focused on "fellowship” for several months now, camped out in John 17 making day trips to other books/passages and looking at various translations I stumbled upon this reference.... wondering if anyone had any thoughts or insights?
Well if youre the Holman translation group you combine peace offerings and sacrifices to make one single offering a 'fellowship offering'. When I look at other translations they do not combine the two distinct Hebrew words.
To me, this combination is attempting to convey a singular thought when in fact the Hebrew does not seem to license it.
I am NO Hebrew scholar, but looking at those who are, they seem to make a distinction in sacrifice and peace offering, therefore adding another 81 instances of 'fellowship' seems contrived.
In the end maybe not offering the accuracy of Hebrew will spin 'fellowship' in a way that contorts what we already know?
I did a quick search of when the term "peace offering” or "fellowship offering” (as in HCSB) first appeared and I did not see where this term is actually defined in scripture. I admit I did not spend tons of time looking.
I was thinking that perhaps "peace offering” might have been defined as a fellowship offering which may solve the dilemma but couldn’t figure out exactly what a peace offering was for.
ADD: Matthew Henry says the peace offering signifies reconciliation, concord and communion, "because in them God and His people did, as it were, feast together, in token of friendship.”
Thanks guys:)
I’m not that familiar with HCSB translation other than basic info-
However this study the Lord has set me on has been quite fruitful in my walk with Him, and after missing 4 consecutive weeks of church this past Sunday I was able to attend and you wanna guess what my pastor preached on...? Yep- fellowship and even used the same scriptures the Lord has been directing me to study from John 17 to 1John 2 etc... one of the more interesting things was how the Lord has been revealing the correlation between "fellowship with” and "knowing Him” which was precisely the way our pastor preached on it:)))
sure seems like a confirmation of sorts-
I’m def open to any input or teachings someone may have to share?
Another interesting thing the Lord has been showing me is how our fellowship with Him has three readily definable positions that parallel the temple model in the OT - outercourt being an entrance into or the beginning of fellowship- the Inner court being a tabernacling or more intimate level of participation - with the Holy of Holies being like communion :)
Isn’t that (fellowship with God) what was lost in the fall of Adam... and isn’t that (fellowship with God) what was restored by Christ Jesus and the work of the cross?
Would "walking with God” or "walking in the spirit” signify fellowship or knowing Him?
What exactly do you mean when you say "fellowship?” Are you taking about a "legal” positional fellowship or more of a relationship type of fellowship?
Christ did restore something, but arguably Moses had deeper fellowship with God than even NT apostles - if you are talking about relationship.
Also- I am curious about your OP and why you referenced all the OTpassages regarding fellowship (or peace) offerings?
Hi Fletcher: Fellowship lost in the garden was regained in the garden by means of sacrifice.
Fellowship equaling 'walking with God' is substantiated everywhere in the OT.
God says. walk before me, walk in my statues, walk in my ways, walk in my law, walk uprightly, walk before me in truth etc.
Revelation 3:4
Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
From first book to last walking with God is paramount it is part of living according to the law and part of what it is to be a Christian.
Fellowship holds another dimension to walking with God, it connotes friendship.
Walking with God, fellowship is part of our purpose as a man or woman.
Not so much a "legal” but also not so "typical”.... more of a real abiding, intimate, proactive, mutual, living relationship-
Again this is something the Lord has had me focused on, excavating the gold, as it were, with regards to how He views it, the importance He places on it...
the reason, I suppose, that the OT references were included in OP was to instigate responses as to the perpetual desire and efforts (on Gods part) to get us into relationship/fellowship/communion with Him...
Yes this is closer to what He seems to be attempting to get me to see...
An example in the NT -
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost,
The term "communion” used here in KJV is also often translated as "fellowship” - and is defined as;
fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
the share which one has in anything, participation
intercourse, fellowship, intimacy
the right hand as a sign and pledge of fellowship (in fulfilling the apostolic office)
a gift jointly contributed, a collection, a contribution, as exhibiting an embodiment and proof of fellowship
I guess I’m asking if (perhaps because I had overlooked/underestimated the importance) this is not the point of it all?
Meaning didn’t God create us for this purpose?
Isn’t this what was lost and restored?
Isn’t this what we be doing in heaven?
Isn’t this how He conforms us into the image of His Son?
Isn’t this how we, as the body, operate?
Wasn’t the mystery that was hidden but later revealed, "Christ in us” aka communion/Union with Him?
He had, not so long ago, reminded me of when I had first met/came to faith in Him that in every situation I have a choice to either react to the situation in my flesh (wether good or bad) or respond to Him in faith by the spirit... it occurred to me that I had been cutting Him out of the loop as it were by utilizing my past experiences and biblical knowledge to guide me... but that is really just my flesh! And what He wanted was to be "in the loop” in every matter...
Once this occurred to me, several scriptures came to mind that seem to illustrate this phenomenon of fellowship which is actually obedience by faith through the spirit. The better I get at utilizing the grace He gives me, to keep step, the more consistent my dependence on Him becomes and the habit of "obeying my flesh/law” dwindles. Seemingly this progresses our relationship growing ever more intimate so long as I abide in Him/fellowship till the desired result of communion is not only achieved but done so in such a way so as to preserve itself.
Following Christ, being a disciple, walking with God, walking in the spirit, abiding in Christ, are (for me) being shown to be different facets of or metaphors for or aspects of - knowing Him... which itself IS eternal life per John 17:3... but this "knowing” isn’t a static book knowledge "about” Him but an active participation in a relational "knowing” .
Like when Jesus says; "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God”. I’m coming to realize that the mechanics of that is actually fellowship... this doesn’t by any means exclude the scriptures but they in themselves do not contain eternal life however this does.
I apologize if this is being somewhat incoherently articulated, I’m still seeking to fully apprehend and as such lack the full clarity that affords simple expression-
Interestingly tho, ALL of my relationships have improved dramatically in almost direct proportion to my understanding that if I respond to Him first, then "wait on the Lord” to give direction- following that by faith. Even when the habit of reacting in my flesh occurs (which it certainly still does) I’m almost immediately made aware of it and with it the deepening desire to draw in closer to Him. Would it be too much to believe that it’s possible to virtually extinguish the fleshy reaction having the spirit so developed so as to be ever mindful of responding to the Lord first?
Fletcher: your post was very well articulated.
What you have written is the best of the best that a believer can attain, a full communion with God, walking in a dependence, hearing of his voice, obedience to his word and freedom to live without the carnal mind pulling us sideways at every turn.
I know this is so true, God revealed this to me some years ago, it has been my experience to walk in it and walk out of it.
In those times that I recognized I was walking in a close communion with God some relationship improved immediately, others flew apart. It causes fear in me, I normally am not a fearful person, but being rejected in so many ways in so many places that I shouldn't be caused me to draw back. To keep silent when I should speak (who would have guessed?)
I have sensed a move of God on my spirit and I don't understand what is happening, but thank God for your encouragement in this, I need it. There are some spiritual truths youve shared that are so easily misunderstood, and the misunderstanding will arise from the mind not in step with the Holy Spirit's leading.
Edit to add: this 'fellowship' or communion in the Holy Spirit brings with it a two-edged sword. The necessity to die to self is always foremost when you are being led of the Spirit. There is always a new death awaiting and to no surprise a new vitality in our walk with God. As you said, a body of biblical head knowledge cannot be exchanged for it. It is such a blessing to recount the 'supernaturalness' to serving Jesus in such a way.
Thank you for your words of encouragement:)))
God is sooo good and faithful towards us, giving us grace to respond to Him in faith, being transformed by His love while led by His spirit:)
May His word abide in us richly ~
Quoting Marvin:
"Fletcher : your post was very well articulated. "
"What you have written is the best of the best that a believer can attain, a full communion with God, walking in a dependence, hearing of his voice, obedience to his word and freedom to live without the carnal mind pulling us sideways at every turn. "
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I agree,and loved this whole response that you wrote to Fletcher,
,Marvin ,.... this that you both are writing ,..if I may say, are truly deep things of God.
I appreciate you both.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Fletcher,
I just did not want to let this pass without commenting,...
I love this,... and your deep thought and encouragement to walk in "The Way” that really The Lord exspects of us,...
Thank you, Fletcher for truly reminding us.
And I would like to add,..(Not flattery).. but..
I hope that you are keeping all your thoughts/writing s ,
,... would be a great book .
Refreshing
Thank you Dear Brother s ,
Love in Christ,
””””””””””””♥ï¸
elizabeth
Thank you brothers and sister for your comments on this most important subject of fellowship.
The 1st epistle of John has always spoken to me about fellowship with God, how to maintain that fellowship, and how to restore fellowship when it is broken.
The Apostle John's main goal in this epistle is to show the child of God how to walk in fellowship with God.
"We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. We write this to make our joy complete." (1 John 1:3,4).
The Apostle goes on to proclaim the message that He has heard from the Lord. "God is light and in Him is no darkness at all." All those that are walking in the light have fellowship with God and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. All those that are walking in darkness are out of fellowship or communion with God. When a believer sins he steps out of the light into the darkness and his fellowship with God is broken. However the good news is that we can have our fellowship restored by simply acknowledging our sin and confessing it to God. (1 John 1:9).
God made us to have fellowship and communion with Him, to live in His presence. To the degree that we are growing in the knowledge of God, to that degree will be the depth of our fellowship.
Good to hear from you:)
Have missed your contributions as of late...
And I am grateful for the encouragement:))
You wrote; "God made us to have fellowship and communion with Him, to live in His presence. To the degree that we are growing in the knowledge of God, to that degree will be the depth of our fellowship.”
Yes and amen!
Sometimes the simplicity of it all amazes me,.. my mind having been conditioned by self-preservation- tho when we see ourselves as crucified with Christ we can begin to see ourselves as alive to God:)))
Still the habits of the old man persist... yet the new man, enabled by Holy Spirit, receives the life that comes from fellowship with the Father through the love of His son:)))
I’m discovering that He gives/shares His love (Romans 5:5) for His son to us who are born again, having a new heart capable of receiving it, and it seems that this (Gods love for His son) is how we become partakers of His divine nature (love). Perhaps this is the "love of Christ” that Paul speaks of that transforms us into the image of the Son. Perhaps this is the fellowship/communion that the Father seeks and why Holy Spirit was given as without Him it would be impossible to facilitate or "process the software update” of Gods love for His son.
After being camped out in John 17 for an extended period it occurred to me that this is perhaps what Jesus was praying for - He seems to say as much in vs26 of that chapter....?
All at once it hit me...WOW!!! If God can give me His love for His only begotten son, and if I receive it and abide in it, becoming a partaker of it (their fellowship/communion) this is the very essence of all that is Holy, Righteous, Pure, innocent etc... my being transformed by it would only be limited by my willingness to yield myself to it- meaning I must die daily to the desires of my flesh/old man to go his own way (comforming to the world) and be renewed in the spirit of my mind by acknowledging God the Father first in every situation, seeking His word as the way in which to walk... waiting on Him to give that direction believing no matter how rushed or anxious I may feel to react to the situation, He can redeem the time!
All of a sudden verses that had previously alluded me in literal practice like; "take EVERY thought captive making it obedient to Christ”, "do ALL that you do unto the Lord”, "pray constantly, without ceasing giving thanks for all things for this IS Gods will for you in Christ Jesus” etc... became instantly practical within the context of this fellowship/communion that God the Father had sacrificed His Son to have restored with His children.
I mean GOD, the creator of all things, the one to whom the Stars bow before, the one who tells the the oceans to come here and go no futher, who tells the mountains to rise and fall AND THEY OBEY HIM!??!!???!!! This God has invited us into a fellowship so pure and holy so as to transform us by our very acceptance and participation that we are adopted into His family??!!!! And to think,... this is the pleasure of His good will- that we may know Him and His love! 🤯😃😇ðŸ™ðŸ»
I simply cannot contain it, it by its own volition, pours forth in praise and worship is the easiest and most natural thing, the only response I have to offer ~
I posted this in another thread I had intended to place it here. So I reposted it here because it is germane to the topic.
A pitfall of thinking of God only in terms of Omniscience, Omnipotent, Omnipresent...He's so big who can relate to a person who makes whole Galaxies?
All believers do to some extent, but what makes God approachable is Jesus Christ. People ate with him, laughed with him, slept with him, sat in his lap, laid on his bosom, he feels what we feel and understands our weaknesses.
This is necessary (in my mind) to begin a joyous fellowship with Jesus. A Jesus that will meet us in prayer, who will speak to us and who will listen to us.
aside:...It is a terrible thing when I hear some ministers teach that God will not speak to us anymore but by his word in the bible. They say if you want to hear God speak just read your bible. Well, I found out from reading my bible they're all wet. The bible tells us he will speak to his children by his Spirit, not just by reading. Did the prophets read God's intents or did he speak it to them? Did the apostle read God's intents or did they hear them?
To be in fellowship cannot be one sided or otherwise it is not fellowship. Our interaction with Jesus in prayer and worship, or during the day at work becomes dry and empty.
So many have never heard the Spirit speak to them and if they did, they would never say it out loud otherwise their Church leaders would think them heretical for getting "revelation outside of God's word".
Here's where you can pick up stones if you like.
We are all absolutely forbidden to add or subtract from the word of God. No question, but we do receive revelation about ourselves from the Spirit. It does not say in scripture Marvin you are called to "....." It's not in there. But the Spirit of God speaks to our own spirit what God is doing in us and with us.
What I heard I discern using the word of God so that I can have a witness that what I have heard is substantiated by scripture.
Scripture does not forbid God's voice to me, it requires that I discern it with scripture.
Until one decides that this sort of thing is valid in scripture and for themselves, they will put little to no faith in any active 'fellowship' that is not all one-sided. You know what I mean...We talk and that's it. We question, we search, we knock and ask and expect no response other than some providential convergence of events.
I am speaking here of the probability of God speaking, I am not saying God is going to talk your ear off next prayer time.
As a young believer I came to know this very early, when I was just a year-old believer, I was amazed at so many who never had what I had. If some of you recall, I was an atheist, I had ZERO religious background or expectations.
God begin to teach me his fellowship was not intercessions which means it's not about others. Its not about what I want from God, which means it's not about my needs. Fellowship with God is the adoration and enjoyment of his person right now, and the love and joy Jesus has for me/you right now. Fellowship is a 'now' thing. Fellowship is an interchange of emotion, love, words, desire with Jesus.
Fellowship is undertaken by faith. When you believe and set apart that time or you turn your heart and mind at work toward God and express yourself in silence, Jesus is there to continue what was had in a prayer closet.
Fellowship takes the relationship for 'granted', I don't come to Jesus as a stranger, nor do I come with a doctrine that says "Jesus your supposed to be here", or with an estranged heart that has become inward focused upon it's failures and sins so it cannot be at peace and know God.
My times of fellowship have always been times of revelation. They have been times of victory and direction giving. They have been soothing times when I was worried or fearful, they have been healing times when I was badly wounded and needed his love.
Sometimes I came to fellowship and I was a mess, sinful angry, rebellious and yet I did so because I believed he was merciful and kind, not just to others but to me, especially me. Jesus has been more than Lord or Savior, he has been my beloved and my hearts desire, I found this out in fellowship with him.
How good is it when we are laid bare before the Lord? How He covers us, clothing us in the righteousness of His beloved Son:)
There are so many ways in which I can relate to your experience written here and am genuinely blessed by it... just feels raw, real, without any need other than to offer confession of Gods goodness and faithfulness and mercy and grace - His love :)
And yes this is what I mean by fellowshipping with Him~
Honestly there is nothing to compare it with as it supersedes all that is not of Him. The light of His love literally burns away all that is counterfeit, turning it to dust and ash, leaving only the splendor of His majesty which itself shines so brightly so as to illuminate life eternal.
Lord,... I just thank you for who You are.... for what You have already done for us through Christ Jesus.... for the invitation, for the adoption, for the eternal fellowship of the spirit that You oh Lord have caused us to become partakers of... for your patience, for your mercy.... for your unfailing love even and especially when we fail You- how it comforts us, lifting us again and again setting our feet firmly on Your promises and oh faces to behold Your Son, our Savior, our Lord, our friend and brother Jesus the Holy One.
Thank You oh Lord that you cause us to walk in Your ways, enabling us by Your grace, leading us by Your Holy Spirit to see You and know You as our Father.
Thank You oh Lord for Your Eternal Word...thank you that You lead us to find it... thank you that You open Your Word to us, revealing the Truth of Your Spirit as we turn to You... how Your Word shapes us as we consume it, making us more like You...
Thank You Father for the fellowship of Your body,... how You knit us together by Your Word, giving us comfort and encouragement and hope as we bear with one another in this life...
Thank You Lord for Your voice,... thank you that You give us ears to hear it, how it calls us out of the darkness, leading us into Your Kingdom... ever urging us to surrender, trusting it’s lead...
You oh God are soooo good to us,... You oh Lord are soooo precious,... You Almighty God are our Father and Your Joy is our pleasure~
Thank You for my brother Marvin, and for how he loves me:)
This is precious and beautiful,...
Surly identifies with my thoughts.
Love it,
1 Jn. 5:1,
"¶ Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.”
””””””””””-♥ï¸
elizabeth
Brother Fletcher:
To speak out praises, as easy as breathing, that is a blessing of fellowship with God. We fellowship in specifics just like your praises expressed, we see God's hand and goodness in a myriad of places and displayed in all manner of events. It is easy to multiply words of adoration, it is a double blessing because such praise and adoration are received of him. He seeks those who will worship in Spirit and Truth, and in fellowship we find out he created in us such a spirit and revealed his truth for that purpose.
Fellowship with God gives us vision to see afar off. There is a sort that have God in a sentimental way. These sentimental feelings are like cat-tails, where the small black bird can land upon and search for food. But men of God are like eagles, they cannot be born up with sentiments, they need the strength of a solid branch, so fellowship supplies a solid point, a place where the eagle looking afar off can see what God will supply.
Peter enjoins us with specifics "add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge temperance, to temperance patience, to patience godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, to brotherly kindness love. For if these things be in you and abound you will not be unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Theology in a sense looks at this and sees symmetry and balance the making of a man/woman of God. But fellowship may not always comprehend symmetry but it will apprehend the beauty of God's ways. Fellowship with God imparts a delight and desire for the ways of God, in a sense it adores the beauty of God's manner of making man/woman of God. The signature of a man's work is seen in his manner of performing his work. Fellowship imparts a love for the signature and the manner in which God works. There is a very personal distinction to be made rather than the observance of a 'thing'.
But this description is mostly husk, it's bone with no marrow. The life giving essence of fellowship with God is his own presence. The conveyance of God's love and the reception of God's lovingkindness at such a moment surpasses quaint explanations.
Fletcher my brother you have chosen that good part which Jesus identifies because in sitting in front of him you are encountering life and truth in one, rather than serving men.
It’s funny how He sometimes turns us, taking us in a completely different direction - After your "reposted” response, I had cut/copied several excerpts intending to offer an intimate and detailed response tho the Lord had something different in mind:)
And yes dear brother, sometimes the sweetest fellowship is in silence, not needing words.
In some instances,... we don’t even know for sure it’s Him initially- perhaps we feel led to do something, tho only after acting on the influence and then being convinced it was the Lord we thank Him, only then to have Him bear witness in our spirit that it was Him all along, helping us to better discern His voice.
Something that is truly remarkable is just how many ways He interacts with us,... each of us having our own unique and personal experience of Him yet we share this corporately with the singular signifier being His word, which itself being alive, bears witness of itself in us:)))
Again this may not be "exactly” how your understanding of it works, and yet that itself is where the genius of Gods plan rests,... like He places a copy of His plan (Christ) in each of His children but in each case there are slight variations in how they/we are able to receive and process, with certain aspects being keyed to each individual. Together as a body, each of these aspects contribute to benefit the other:)
The more quiet I am, listening for His still small voice, catching glimpses of it- the more fascinated I become with Him:)))
Hahahaha, my 5 yr old just came down the hall (randomly) singing "the wise man builds his house upon the Rock, heyyyy don’t be a foolish man, build your life on the the Lord” and it is indeed the only life there is that lasts- the one built on the revealed word of God to His children ~
This discussion is locked.
