How should this affect me as a believer?

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. (I John 5:18)

Is there a new creation in me that cannot sin because it was born of incorruptible seed (I Peter 1:23)? If so, how should that affect me as a believer? What practical daily results can I experience because of this?

Or as many are normally quick to point out, it doesn't mean you can't sin it means those born of God cannot go on habitually sinning as before they were saved. But is that what the verse says or does it mean Christ in you who is the basis of the new creation cannot sin? Which is it?

I'm going to sin again. I'm sure of that. We have been discussing this lately and it is interesting. But it seems in a way we have been taught that if we can subdue our flesh and make it do right (the hold on with white knuckles club) that we will then be walking in the Spirit. Why shouldn't it be the other way around - if you walk and have faith in the new creation within then you will be better able to crucify your flesh which is the real sinner.

The flesh has not been redeemed yet. It remains as it was but is now living under the promise of eventual redemption and glorification. Until then is there a new creation within me that cannot sin? How can Christ within sin? If so how should it affect me in my walk? Shouldn't our concentration be there so as to then live out better Romans 12:1? Why be constantly be reminded I remain a dirty rotten sinner if there is a sinless new creation within? Shouldn't I be trying to relate to that more even so than outward circumstances?

I'm not pushing the view that we will become perfect in this life. I will sin again but does I John 5:18 mean that the new creation within cannot since it was born incorruptible?
If so shouldn't this be the source of my concentration in my efforts at deeper sanctification and further laying aside sin? But firsf it must be determined what I John 5:18 means.

This is from Andrew book - abide

Believer! would you truly and fully abide in Christ, prepare yourself to part for ever from self, and not to allow it, even for a single moment, to have aught to say in your inner life. If you are willing to come entirely away out of self, and to allow Jesus Christ to become your life within you, inspiring all your thinking, feeling, acting, in things temporal and spiritual, He is ready to undertake the charge. In the fullest and widest sense the word life ever can have, He will be your life, extending His interest and influence to each one, even the minutest, of the thousand things that make up your daily life. To do this He asks but one thing: Come away out of self and its life, abide in Christ and the Christ life, and Christ will be your life. The power of His holy presence will cast out the old life.

To this end give up self at once and for ever. If you have never yet dared to do it, for fear you might fail of your engagement, do it now, in view of the promise Christ gives you that His life will take the place of the old life. Try and realize that though self is not dead, you are indeed dead to self. Self is still strong and living, but it has no power over you. You, your renewed nature - you, your new self, begotten again in Jesus death in Christ has freed you completely from the control of self: it has no power over you, except as you, in ignorance, or unwatchfulness, or unbelief, consent to yield to its usurped authority. Come and accept by faith simply and heartily the glorious position you have in Christ. As one who, in Christ, has a life dead to self, as one who is freed from the dominion of self, and has received His divine life to take the place of self, to be the animating and inspiring principle of your life, venture boldly to plant the foot upon the neck of this enemy of yours and your Lord's. Be of good courage, only believe; fear not to take the irrevocable step, and to say that you have once for all given up self to the death for which it has been crucified in Christ (Rom.6:6). And trust Jesus the Crucified One to hold self to the cross, and to fill its place in you with His own blessed resurrection life.

In this faith, abide in Christ! Cling to Him; rest on Him; hope on Him. Daily renew your consecration; daily accept afresh your position as ransomed from your tyrant, and now in turn made a conqueror. Daily look with holy fear on the enemy, self, struggling to get free from the cross, seeking to allure you into giving it some little liberty, or else ready to deceive you by its profession of willingness now to do service to Christ. Remember, self seeking to serve God is more dangerous than self refusing obedience. Look upon it with holy fear, and hide yourself in Christ: in Him alone is your safety. Abide thus in Him; He has promised to abide in you. He will teach you to be humble and watchful. He will teach you to be happy and trustful. Bring every interest of your life, every power of your nature, all the unceasing flow of thought, and will, and feeling, that makes up life, and trust Him to take the place that self once filled so easily and so naturally. Jesus Christ will indeed take possession of you and dwell in you; and in the restfulness and peace and grace of the new life you shall have unceasing joy at the wondrous exchange that has been made - the corning out of self to abide in Christ alone.

But it seems in a way we have been taught that if we can subdue our flesh and make it do right (the hold on with white knuckles club) that we will then be walking in the Spirit. Why shouldn't it be the other way around - if you walk and have faith in the new creation within then you will be better able to crucify your flesh which is the real sinner.

You may be getting at something here. A common view of sanctification is that every part of my life should be holy. But that's not holiness, it's the fruit of holiness. Holiness is Christ. He is the supply for each moments need. He is God's answer to every problem. I think we can increasingly learn to walk this way as we are increasingly aware of our need.

In Christ,

The Bible speaks of God's people growing to spiritual maturity from a seed of life that has been implanted in the soul. We have been "created" in the image of Jesus in holiness and righteousness. At the same time, the Scripture speaks of us dying and the life of Jesus Himself being made manifest through us as we no longer live, but Christ lives in us. These two truths spoken in many different ways in the NT create some questions and confusion. Is there a new me, a new creation that is holy but in infancy that grows and matures into full righteousness and holiness over time, but not completely until death and glorification. Or, is there only me dying daily and Christ in His maturity living through me more and more each day? This seems to be the back and forth discussion about sanctification.

Maybe it is not an OR situation at all. Maybe its an AND sanctification. We surrender to the Spirit's leading and filling and we walk with Christ in the light, in love, in holiness and truth etc. and thus Christ in His character is manifest in us. As we do that, we are also being transformed in character and holiness into the likeness of Christ, our own personal glorification and transformation into true likeness.

Thanks for the answers.

Do you all think there is a new creation within us, born of God, created from an incorruptible seed in righteousness and true holiness, that CANNOT sin? That is not a trick question or a gotcha question. It seems when you mention a part of you being born again in Christ that is unable to sin that people shy away. They won't go there because they assume you are speaking of not sinning anymore in your walk when that is not at all what you are saying.

YES!!! When we are born again we are a NEW creation and the old passes away.

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Christ lives in your heart through faith. If you KNOW that God is telling you the truth through these words, and if you receive these words coming into you through faith to be Jesus in Person living inside your heart, then you have been touched by a miracle of God and the power of the Holy Spirit is overshadowing you.

Before we can really "lay hold of Christ" we must know that Christ Himself has already "laid hold of us"! So we are not attempting as person who is not already united with Christ to become united with Him. The reality is that Christ Himself is alive within you this very second. So we need to see that reality before we can believe and trust the person of Christ who is now within. As along as we look at a Christ in heaven, over there, next to us or even within us in a separate compartment we are doomed to failure and defeat.

To "lay hold of Christ" is to realize that His LIFE is really your life - NOW - right this very second. You have HIM now!! You are NOW united with Him. Believe that fact and treat Him as He is - because He is! Lets make this very simple - We can never "come into union with God." Jesus has already come into union with us. You have HIM now!! You are NOW united with Him. Believe that fact and treat Him as He is - because He is!

You can embrace Him NOW because you have been embraced by the Messiah Jesus. You can lay hold of Him because you have been laid hold of by Christ Jesus. He is hugging you and as a result you can hug Him back. He is giving the ability to respond (responsibility) - so just respond back.

Col. 1:12-13, "Giving thanks unto the Father, which has made us qualified to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son."

Eph. 2:4, "But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ, (by grace you are saved;) And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:2, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Actually, the Bible says that we cannot "practice" sin if you look at the context. It's an inclination, nature and disposition that changes. The old nature practices sin because it is inclined to sin as God says. The new nature cannot practice sin. At least that is how Scripture reads.

In the same manner, the new nature may not practice sin because it cannot sin.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Very uplifting and encouraging:)

The new nature/old nature - sin issue was recently explained like this ;
Our "new nature” cannot sin in the same way that an IOS operating system cannot process and act upon input from a PC’s operating system... it literally can’t "compute” it as it’s a wholly different language. And so, it was said, once we are born again we get a new operating system that receives, processes and acts on all commands by Gods input-

Was an interesting analogy that made some sense to me.

Hi Fletcher.

In Jesus’ time, no computers so He used "good tree / good fruit” and "bad tree / bad fruit ". :)

Good thoughts going on here I think.

So which way does God really see us? As a new creation in Christ, partakers of His actual divine and incorruptible nature, or as someone saved but still a dirty rotten sinner, a worm and no man. Are we robbing ourselves when we say I remain just a poor sinner? Is that our true identity in God and Christ? Which should we relate to stronger?

We discussed this again in Sunday school yesterday. And I'm not saying I'm approaching perfection. But at this point I want to get my identity straight as I walk in this life.

1 John, 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

You are NOT a rotten sinner or a worm. You are A Child of God and Saint. Your Body is a temple of the LIVING GOD. The same Spirit who raised Christ from the dead Dwells in you. You are Holy.

You believe in the death of the Lord Jesus and you believe in the death of the thieves with Him. Now what about your own death? Your crucifixion is more intimate than theirs. They were crucified at the same time as the Lord but on different crosses, whereas you were crucified on the self same cross as He, for you were in Him when He died. How can you know? You can know for the one sufficient reason that God has said so.

It does not depend on your feelings. If you feel that Christ has died, He has died; and if you do not feel that he died, He has died. If you feel that you have died, you have died; and if you do not feel that you have died, you have nevertheless just as surely died.

These are Divine facts. That Christ has died is a fact, that the two thieves have died is a fact, and that you have died is a fact also. Let me tell you, You have died! You are done with! You are ruled out! The self you loathe is on the Cross in Christ. And "he that is dead is freed from sin" (Romans 6:7, A.V.)."

Just look at some things God has already done for you and in you.

This is the truth that sets you free.

You have deliverance from sin and its spiritual consequences.

You are attached to the body of Christ.

You have Jesus Christ actually dwelling, abiding and living within you.

You have been set free from the law of sin and death.

You have deliverance from the pollution of sin itself.

You are now one with Christ and in union with Him.

You are now a totally NEW creation.

You have been reconciled to God.

You have entered into a new spiritual life of righteousness, peace and joy

You are now seated in the heavily places in Christ.

You have been delivered from eternal death, sin, punishment and misery.

Jesus Christ Himself is now your Life. You are now a partaker of His divine nature.

You have been freed from the power and domain of sin.

You have now been justified by his blood,

You have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace "

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made you free from the law of sin and death

You have been crucified with Christ.

Your body is now the Temple of God and you are holy.

You have been made the righteousness of God in Christ.

He is your Sabbath rest.

And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

God has taken away your stony hard heart and REPLACED with a new heart that is full of His love, desires and faith. Please note that this was an exchange. He took away the old heart and then replaced it with a new one. You do NOT have two hearts!

Jesus has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: (Col 1:13)

Jesus has opened our eyes, and turned us from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that we may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith... (Act 26:18)

Jesus has delivered us from the snare of the Devil (2 Tim 2:26)

Jesus has delivered us from the god of this world who had blinded our minds that we believe not... (2 Cor 4:4)

Through Him and by Him we wrestle with principalities, and powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places AND OVERCOME ALL THE POWER OF THE ENEMY. (Eph. 6:12 and Luke 10:19)

The Truth is not just facts about God and Christ just to be understand. The truth is a PERSON. Jesus Christ - HIMSELF is the TRUTH and this living; abiding, dwelling, never ceasing, and always unfolding truth is in us NOW!! Seeing truth as a living person who is our ever present savior within us second by second changes everything. Now we have real person not a doctrine, idea, concept, teaching, principle, custom or ordinance to follow and apply. We do not have a God who is out there or over there. He is not even next to us or within us living in a separated compartment or room within our own selves.

God has placed us into Himself inside of all that is Christ. This is the gospel that we very seldom hear about. Christ Is In God and God is in Christ. We are in Christ and Christ is in us. We are in God and God is in Us. WOW! Do you believe that?

We have the never ceasing LIVING WORD, LIFE, TRUTH, LOVE, VICTORY, WISDOM, SALVATION, FAITH and SANCTIFATION within us now. For you are now filled with all the fullness of God. That means that God has given ALL of Himself to you. You do not just have a portion of God but NOW have All of God because you have Him. This is the gift that He has given you - HIMSELF. Everything that God is, you are. Everything that Christ is, you are now. You are COMPLETE IN HIM!!!

John 14:10-12, "Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Do you mourn your shortcomings; Do you think you have found the hated monster, sin, that is striving to be your master. Do you think that evil is present when you would do good? The help you need is now in Christ. Who is abiding, living and dwelling within you. God word tells you that you have died with Christ so now by a simple act of faith - take Him at as word. Just look deeply to see that you have died in Christ. He paid all of sin's penalties, and then raised you from the dead to live highest heights of godly life. You are now holy and you can experience this holiness when you know that you can totally depend on Christ within. As you depend on Him you will be filled with extreme joy in seeing Christ's finished work.

Now just let your loving Savior work in you His will, your sanctification by fully counting on Him being willing and powerful enough to do what He says. We live by His life and by His grace. Abiding, not striving nor struggling; looking off unto Him; trusting Him for present power; trusting Him both to will and to do of His great pleasure You can NOW rest in the love of an almighty Savior, in the conscious joy of a complete salvation, a salvation were Christ will literally become the only power for service and a holy life; His Life is the only ground for unchanging joy. May He lead us into the realization of His unfathomable fullness.

How then do we have our faith increased? Only by believing of all that Jesus is now living and abiding within us. Believe all He is for us: His life, His death, His work, He Himself as revealed to us in the Word, to be the subject of our constant thoughts. Not a striving to have faith, or to increase our faith, but a looking off to the Faithful One who becomes out life; a resting in the Loved One entirely, for time and for eternity.

Here, is the secret: It is not by asking how I can I abide in the Vine, but remembering that Jesus is the Vine - the root, stem, branches, twigs, leaves, flowers, fruit, all indeed. Yes, and far more too! He is the soil and sunshine, air and rain -- more than we can ask, think, or desire. Let us not then want to get anything out of Him, but rejoice in being ourselves in Him -- one with Him, and, consequently, with all His fullness. Not seeking for faith to bring holiness, but rejoicing in the fact of your perfect holiness in Christ, let us realize that -- inseparably one with Him -- this holiness is ours, and accepting the fact, find it so indeed.

Just believe right now that you are connected to Christ who is your Life and never ending unlimited supply of Love, Holiness, Faith, Righteousness, Peace and Joy. Now you have the person of Christ living, dwelling and abiding within you and HE is now giving everything you need to experience His complete and full salvation. You are in UNION with Him. You no longer have to "do things" to get Him to work, to bless, to give you a sense of His presence. It is His life of ceaseless and infinite power, love, and holiness being imparted within you every second of every day. You are just a vessel, branch or container of God's Life within you.

Do you know and embrace the fact that Christ is your life, that you have NO other life, that Christ shows Himself through every bumbling aspect of your humanity, that every part of yourself, especially your sin and their flesh, is found only inside of Jesus? It Is finished. What needed to cease has ceased, regardless of the sight of the eyes. You are alive unto God. The secret of abiding is knowing that you abide in Christ and that Christ abides in you and living out from no other place.

Cup, I hear what you said about it not mattering how you "feel”. I couldn’t and the Bible could not disagree more: This is a huge issue and not just a matter of theological debate. If we don’t see this issue clearly, we miss the point of salvation and a new heart completely.

Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. - Matthew 10:37

But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, - Romans 6:17

Whom have I in heaven but you? And there is nothing on earth that I desire besides you. - Psalm 73:25

After listening to the king, they went on their way. And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy. - Matthew 2:9-10

I'm not trying to light a fire but I don't quite understand your answer. I thought feelings came last in our walk. Fact - faith - feeling. The facts are in the word of God, and they never vary. Faith takes its stand with the facts of God's word, and confesses them as true. Feelings may waver; but ultimately, if faith stands, feelings will come into line with the facts. On the other hand, if we start at the wrong end - with feelings rather than fact - we will always end up in trouble. Our feelings change hour by hour and moment by moment. If our life is based on them, it will be as unstable as they are. "The righteous man shall live by faith."

Likewise, I would think it doesn't matter how we may feel at any given moment regarding the fact that we are born again and the new nature and creation in Christ within us is incorruptible and cannot sin. It is a fact we can have faith in regardless of how we feel.

Thank you.

Not sure if I’m understanding what’s being put forth, so for clarity...
what about conviction??
When a believer sins, who "feels” conviction- the new nature or old nature?

It's an excellent question of which I am not sure of what all the particular ends and outs would be in regards to an answer. It is a fact though that Christ bore our old nature entirely at Calvary and through His one unique sacrifice this old nature was slain entirely. If the Church is trying to put the cross back at the center of its belief and practice this should be a major starting point in its efforts I think.

Thank you for your question.

This is a much needed discussion, and one that there is much confusion on within the church.

Before we were born again, we were indeed sinners, dead in our sins, and this is why we habitually sinned, because we had a sin nature, and sinning was most natural to us.

The born again child of God is no longer a dirty, rotten sinner, but has been made a new creation in Christ Jesus. The old things have passed away, and all things have become new. (2Corinthians 5:17). The Spirit of God is now abiding in the child of God, and he has been delivered out of the kingdom of darkness and translated into the Kingdom of God's dear Son. (Colossians 1:13)

The child of God is in Christ Jesus, and Jesus is in Him through and by the Holy Spirit. God does not see us anymore as dirty, rotten sinners. "Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence””" (Colossians 1:,21,22).

The battle for the Christian is between the flesh and the spirit. We have been set free from sin, but the flesh and the spirit are at war with each other. "For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want." (Galatians 5:17).

The flesh will never be saved but must be crucified, and we must stand on the Word of God that our old sin nature has been crucified with Christ.

We have a choice to make of either walking after the Spirit or the flesh. "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).

We can sin if we choose to, but we do not have to sin. "For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace." (Romans 6:14).

If we attempt to overcome sin in our own strength then we will find ourselves doing the things that we do not want to do, and not doing the things that we know to do.... (Romans 7). Our victory is in Christ. It is through the overcoming life of Christ that we overcome the world, the flesh, and the devil. The self life must be crucified, and we must allow Christ to live His life in us and through us.

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." (Galatians 2:20)

//The self life must be crucified, and we must allow Christ to live His life in us and through us.//

Folks love to say this but no one I have seen has ever been able to explain how to do this without resorting to mumbo jumbo.

There used to be a poster here who would talk about this a lot and I never could understand what he was saying as a practical matter.

Todd,
Andrew Murray and Watchman Nee have books that explain the practical outworking of this.

It is all over the Word. Jesus said that if anyone wants to follow me, that is be His disciple, he must deny himself, and take up his cross. This is Discipleship 101.

Deitrich Bonhoeffer ”” 'When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.'