If we do away with reading would we even feel saved ?

When I look at some of the posts here it is obvious that we love to read.
Then there is the reading of the Bible, and our believing that if we read enough we will be transformed into Christ's likeness.

But are we just actually growing a false Christ in our lives ? And walking around with what we believe to be the true representation of the closeness of Christ in our conscious mind when it isn't.
Continually reading about the finished work of Christ for us can honestly lead to a false representation of the true Christ. Then we read something about the things Christ said while on the earth. The hard things he said in the sermon on the mount. And also in the book of Revelation. And it shakes us as our relationship could be based on a false version of the Christ.

And we love to read books by people who are exalted by the Christian masses because of their message of grace with no teaching of Christ's desire for us to repent leading to our whole heart being turned over for Christ.

Imagine if we were like Moses or Paul only guided by the spirit of God ? And not by what we had read that morning.
Imagine our false Christ slowly evaporating and our true position of our relationship with God being seen for what it is ?
It would be amazing.

Hi David: Of course I would object.

Purely anecdotal but I'll just toss a few things out.

1. Suppress the word of God and you get the dark ages.
2. Replace the word of God and you get superstition
3. Usurp the word of God and you get Roman Catholicism.
4. Ignore the word of God and you get Cults.
5. Twist the word of God and you get heresies
6. Pick and chose the word of God and you get loonies of all sorts.
7. Leave the word of God behind and you have no basis to judge whether you have a relationship with God or not.
8. Supplant the word of God with the Spirit only and you have false Christianity.

These are just of few obstacles to an idea that you've presented. But it's more than my opinion the word of God teaches against your idea.

My scripture text is this.

Jer 23:23 "Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away? 24 Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord. 25 I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in my name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’ 26 How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart, 27 who think to make my people forget my name by their dreams that they tell one another, even as their fathers forgot my name for Baal? 28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell the dream, but let him who has my word speak my word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat? declares the Lord. 29 Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces? 30 Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, declares the Lord, who steal my words from one another.

So, I repeat..."but let him who has my word speak my word faithfully. What has straw in common with wheat? declares the Lord."

So, I will abide by this and hazard the reading.

Hi Marvin, thanks for the reply. So I was thinking how much our closeness to God is based upon a false notion of soulish feelings that can come from being absorbed with Christian literature and the Bible. which isn't a true reflection of how close we truly are to Christ. But it says "Draw close to God and he will draw close to you. cleanse your hands you sinners and purify your hearts you double minded."

As if to say there is a closer walk of fellowship to be lived.

I understand exactly what you are saying David and I am afraid I have been guilty of allowing much reading to move me away from and not toward Jesus.

Ecclesiastes 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

David: I am a reader, always have been. I learned as a young believer that the bible can be read as a 'litmus test for all things'. Meaning I used it for apologetics or theology or testing the claims of cults or scientific claims. In reading it this way, there is an open avenue for Satanic temptation. Namely, to turn to the bible into a text book to defend ones beliefs or refute others.
I say, this a God-ordained thing. Yet, Satan seizing the opportunity of our flesh begins to pare-off the believer from the relational aspect the scriptures inherently direct us towards.
I also found out, reading the scriptures purely on a devotional level does not allow the Spirit to guide us into doctrinal truth and bible-links necessary to make it coherent to a studious mind.

When I was younger I basically flip-flopped between one or the other as I had need of one or the other. As a young street preacher, I was always confronted with many false teachings, false teachers, errant ideas, erroneous views so with that, I needed the scriptures to guide me into all truth, so that in evangelism/apologetics I was able to confront error with truth. I did this not because I was sacrificing fellowship with God or creating a false image, but because others had false ideas and images of God. Faithfulness to Jesus required me to honor God above men, and as Jesus did, he refuted error with truth, so must I if I am to follow him. So, in effect the appearance is academic/theological looking and didn't have that feel of 'devotional' exposition of scripture.
Then in my private time, the scriptures were all devotional, all instruction in righteousness toward me personally and in many cases heaven-sent comfort-words, corrections and challenges.
Over time, I realized this flip-flopping was artificial, it was simply a mental construct. I realized I never need to sacrifice fellowship on account of academic study, or forsake theology for devotion. I began to link these all together as one unity of thought.
A discerning appeared, namely to recognize satanic attacks by way of mental weariness, a pushing away from prayer or intercessions. In this 'unity' as I call it, I simply and easily refuse to give into prayerlessness, or passive spiritual resistance. I am devoted, all the time and I am all the time studious. I am all the time recognizing ( or should be) temptations to mental strength versus spiritual, reliance upon persuasive argument rather than Holy Spirit revelation.
It takes time, error, victory, loss, insights, discerning, and more time and more experience to learn how God speaks to me, through me and how I am to overcome in the midst of battles whether on discussion forums or on the streets.

The important thing for me, and this is primarily about how I have learned...I never sacrifice fellowship or doctrine, I am to be as Jesus full of truth and full of devotion toward God. The working out of what God has apprehended me for is still 'in the works' but I press on.

Thanks to both of you for your words.
I was a Christian living a yo-yo life.
Always seeming to be close to Christ but never over coming the sin that the Lord called me to overcome.
But one evening I nearly died. And it catapulted me into a life of full obedience.

It was in doing this that the Lord began to draw close to me.
The real person of Jesus came close to me to remain so I never had any broken fellowship. But the biggest revelation was the amount of falseness I had built up in my soul.

Continually reading about the finished work of Christ can lead to a false representation of Christ? How so? And reading the Bible too much about this finished work can do the same? I think not knowing enough about this finished work causes many problems in our walk and the Churcb.

"The golden rule for understanding spiritually is not intellect, but obedience. If a man wants scientific knowledge, intellectual curiosity is his guide; but if he wants insight into what Jesus Christ teaches, he can only get it by obedience.”

Oswald Chambers

Hi David, I believe it can only be understood when we see how corrupt our own heart is and have had that revealed to us by Christ. It is then that we see the carnal nature of our souls is deceitful in it's extreme. And we recognise the falseness inside us. It is capable of inventing falseness and inventing visions (see below).

When we have that revealed to us there is a genuine fear of God in our hearts.

Jeremiah 23
This is what the Lord Almighty says:
"Do not listen to what the prophets are prophesying to you;
they fill you with false hopes.

They speak visions from their own minds,
not from the mouth of the Lord.

They keep saying to those who despise me,
‘The Lord says: You will have peace.’

My study of the cross has led me to believe our old carnal nature and our corrupt heart were totally borne by Christ at Calvary and slain. Our focus and identity before God does not revolve around our old nature and the old man. Reckon yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Put off the old man which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts and put on the new man created in righteousness and true holiness. This is what studying and reading about the cross can teach us.

Blessings.

What are your feelings about how we are transformed David ? If we believe it is all done through just by walking by grace and our sins become less, and we are changed. Where is this taught practically in the Bible ? If you could pin point the verses it would show me where you're coming from.

David: I think I understand exactly what you are saying. There is a difference between having an intellectual understanding of God and trying to live out of the wellspring of that intellect and having an encounter with the living God and drawing life from the Holy Spirit.

We would never advise believers to throw away the Bible and fail to study or read it. But too many believers base their Christian walk on just that exercise. I can have every doctrinal i dotted and every doctrinal t crossed, and still fail to know Him intimately. I can be as straight as a gun barrel and yet be just as empty of His presence. He never called us to study about Him, debate Him, and have an intellectual understanding of Him. Those things all come from the mind of man and their fruit is fleshly. He called us to know Him in intimacy and through this knowing to be transformed into His image from glory to glory. When we are pursuing this, He will see to it that He reveals His written word to us and it will change the very fabric of who we are.

Well stated Travis.

Thanks Travis. Yes I believe it comes out of the intimacy the Lord wants us to have with him. And the Scripture teaches us, (once we have waded through a lot of the false teaching in most of Christendom), that this intimacy comes through dying to self. The Lord aligns himself with that person.

I find that some of these heresy hunter "discernment ministries" are preaching to the choir. I listen to them and I actually agree with a lot of what they are saying but I'm thinking to myself: "How many days or weeks did they spend going through every Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn broadcast to document this stuff?" And I'm sure that the people they are presenting this stuff to can't stand Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn anyway. So what's the point? When the Federal Reserve hires someone new to detect counterfeit bills, they don't show them counterfeit stuff, they teach them to know every detail of the real thing. When they have a bill that doesn't agree with the real thing they know it's counterfeit.

-Daniel

I'm surely not any perfect saint since the results and fruits of Calvary are always progressive in a believer's life. They don't come all at once and one has to be willing to be aggressive and pursue and fight for them. The passive don't obtain. And I would think if we concentrate on how corrupt our heart is we are giving the old man a rightful lease to run our lives. The main goal of Satan is to bewitch us and get our eyes off of the cross. The cross needs to be put back at the center of the church's considerations and teachings and proclamations. In our men's group as church we studied the cross again last year and it is making a difference for us. At the cross our corrupt nature was totally slain and a new heart was given us so we might walk in newness of life. I believe this is where we should start as far as our transformation goes. This is the first practical step in our transformation and deeper intimacy - do we really believe this? If we need to repent about anything perhaps it is neglecting what happened at th a cross. The details of the sacrifice at Calvary and what Christ bore can only be found in the Word. And if He tells you something about Calvary while you are in your prayer closet you can bet it can found in the Word.

I don't want to come across as a know it all but rather try and spread some encouragement.

David: re.: the OP.

There is such a thing as true truth and a false truth that we create ourselves. If we lack intimacy with Him, then we create a truth based on our own intellectual understanding of scripture and it is verified and modified by our own experiences. We create a gospel that is true enough to us, but is not the truth, if that makes sense.

We are transformed by the renewing of our minds (Rom 12). This transformation is found only 4 times in scripture. Twice the word is transfigured and speaks of Christ's transfiguration on the mountain when He literally shone with light as He was seen bearing the glory of God. The fourth time is fantastic. We are told that when we look upon Him with an unveiled face (speaking of true, uncovered and unveiled intimacy) that we are changed (transfigured) from glory to glory into His image. This has always been His desire. We are not born again for the sake of our own eternal destination. That is just what happens to be true because of our rebirth. We are born again to bear His image and glory. The only way we can manifest this is to know Him in intimacy.

In this intimacy, He will speak the truth of righteousness in our lives. He will reveal to us His love and what it looks like to both receive and become this love. He will speak to us His original purpose for our lives. He will show us who we have become in Him. In doing this, we will learn to submit our everything to Him and we will be compelled to open up each and every area of our lives to His transforming work. We will become like Him as He transforms us and as a result we will bear much fruit for His kingdom.

Thanks for the input to this Travis, and everyone.

I regard the WORD as God's love letter to me. In it He tells me about himself, how he deals with people and how He wants our love and devotion. He informs me what would happen if I spurn him. Studying the WORD shapes my mind, how I think and in turn how I react to life, situations that come my way. No other literature has this kind of power over me - in fact I consider most of it boring because it seems so dead! Other religious lit does not poses any life-giving qualities like the WORD does to me. It may point me to the LORD but it is not life-giving, or empowering like God's own WORD.

My testimony...

Sandra

May all have a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him. May all offer their lives to Him as a living sacrifice no longer living for themselves but only for Him.

From that, grace and peace are multiplied, love abounds, transformation occurs, maturity and unity are achieved and Christ likeness is obtained. That’s Scripture. Not opinion, not experience,

"If you love Me, you will obey my commands and I will love you and the Father will love you and I will manifest Myself to you. "

May the Spirit of love, holiness and revelation and understanding make that happen in all who desire Jesus more than anything in heaven and earth and long to see Him seen and honored as supreme in all the earth to the glory of God the Father. Amen.