Revival and the end of the age

I was saved in 1972 and even at that time there was a large and burgeoning intercessory movement present and growing and emphasizing that if the church prayed and sought for it hard enough a revival of epic proportions was surely destined to come to America and maybe the world. It was forecast and prophesied that Washington, D.C. would once again be filled with righteous God believing politicians who would enact only laws and statues that had a biblical base and foundation. Abortion and pornography would be overturned and millions would become saved and America would once again become a city on a hill and a light to the nations. I don't know what it all means but it hasn't happened. Perhaps revival will come some other way or in another form such as the church further consecrating itself and further divorcing itself from the world even if social and moral conditions don't improve.

Where I keep going in my thoughts though is what the Bible has to say about the end of the age. According to the Hebrew prophets and from whom Jesus quoted when speaking of the end of the age, a time of unparalleled trouble is coming in the days just preceding the second advent. It's to be a time of trouble never before seen and one that will never be equaled after it has occurred (Jer 30:7; Daniel 12:1; Matt 24:21 etc.). Revelation portrays this time as a time of great and vast evangelism as many will turn to the Lord and His graciousness like never before as the earth is reaped one last time for a final ingathering of souls. Even while the wicked continue in their wickedness and lack of understanding.

So if Washington, D.C. is transformed and America becomes a moral beacon on a high hill again for all the world to see my question is how is that going to forestall or get around the final time of world trouble and wickedness prophesied to occur at the end of the age in the days just prior to the second advent? Will an American revival circumvent the rise of the man of sin, the son of perdition who will be the outright embodiment of evil (II Thess 2:3)? Will it end coming persecution? Will an American or world revival somehow cancel or nullify the assault of the nations against Israel as the time of the Messiah approaches? I don't see how what is coming as foretold by the prophets will be stopped in the midst of any revival. Perhaps they will happen simultaneously. I'm not against revival, I've prayed for it many times but I wonder if subtly or unconsciously we are trying to fit God and a revival into our own plans and aspirations of what we hope things will be like. Have we fully come to terms with what the end of the age is forecast to be like? The Hebrew prophets have been 100% accurate so far so why would they be wrong about the end of the age? There's going to be a "revival" I suppose and I hope and pray for revival. But there is also going to be a momentous onslaught of evil topped off by the rise of the man of sin that will make all evil personages before him look like choir boys. He will meet a sure defeat by the King of Kings but the Church and Israel is going to pass through deep waters before then. So If Washington say becomes a "righteous city" and the American church begins to drastically mature then what? Should it been seen as a final answer to prayer or as preparation for the trying time ahead? The earth is not going to be fixed before the Deliverer comes again.

Maybe there will be a revival like the world has never seen then a falling away like the world has never seen and then in the year 2463 the end will come.

Bottom line is there is no guarantee the scriptures you reference are referring to the end of the world as opposed to the end of the Jewish temple system that occurred in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD.

Jesus told the chief priest and Sanhedrin in MT 26 that they would see him coming on the clouds of heaven- a clear reference to judgment(see eg below) and that is exactly what happened- in 70 AD. Jesus was not a false prophet- at least some of the men he was addressing were alive when He came in judgment in 70 AD.

(See, the Lord rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt within them” (Isaiah 19:1).

Well using my common sense approach to this, I'm thinking world trouble and wickedness is and has been here a while, not only that, where does it say in the Word, that good can't be going on in the mist of all the world trouble and wickedness?

No one said good can't go on in the midst of wickedness. Yes wickedness and trouble have been around for a long while but the prophets and Jesus and Paul and Peter and John forecast a time of unparrallaled trouble and intensity at the end of this age. Wickedness that has been here is not what I was making reference to. I was speaking of the days just prior to the return of Christ. Sometimes I almost get the feeling that the notion and prayers for a wide and far reaching revival carries with it the subtle idea that we somehow might be able to navigate around this time. We might in a way be trying to see revival to fit God into our preferences instead of facing full on what the so far 100 per cent accurate prophetic word has already forecast. We all want to see souls saved and I'm not against revival but in all this wd still need a sober assessment of where we are going. The prophets and Jesus and the apostles have given us a roadmap but the lack of prophetic literacy is one of the greatest deficits of the Church today.

David, personally, I think we worry to much, we also tend to place God in a box. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but from what I read below, I'm guessing Prayer will always be a plus.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

David, we all won't be here to have to worry about it anyway, if to die is to gain, send me on home before things start going south.

Philippians 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

I think we worry to much, we also tend to place God in a box. I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but from what I read below, I'm guessing Prayer will always be a plus.

2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

I believe we are surrounded by evil today and in the past. There has been violence since Eve ate the apple and listened to the lying serpent..
I believe revival will save many and set many free.. I believe Our GOD is a GOD of Mercy first.. I believe it will happen and yes judgement will come.. It must happen because we serve a good GOD. He is not wringing His hands over the state of this nation or any Nation.. Did He not create us all.. in Seven days..
I believe 2.Peter 3:9 It is GODs will for none to perish and all to come to repentence..
My responsibility is to PRAY and repent for my sin, the iniquitious patterns that have come down since Adam and Eve in my Blood line. Exodus 20:6.... And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
I am just a handmaiden of the Lord who He called to intercede.. I will continue to believe that REVIVAL is one last pouring out of HIS Mercy.. and after that GOD knows... If many are saved and set free that would be awesome. and I believe GOD's Will as His word states..
I pray DO it again Father.. SEND YOUR FIRE TO PURIFY YOUR BRIDE AND NATION AND SEND YOUR RAIN TO SET MANY FREE .. IN
JESUS name..

His handmaiden
Sister Frannie

So when might the Church be leaving? Or when might the Church be making its early exit? Because right when things get bad and real judgment begins to be poured out the Church is destined to pop off to glory one day without warning leaving behind a poor and beleagured world. The millions who will die without Christ when planes and buses crash into buildings because their pilots and drivers were raptured had fair warning to get in on things so they could make an early exit. So they made their beds and have to lie in them. I'm right aren't I? It's not the long gone Church's fault they perished. The Church, called to be a beacon and lights in the worst of circumstances, is not going to have to go through any of it.

docs said,

"I'm right aren't I?"

NO.

Didn't believe I was right. Just trying to make a point.

docs....So they made their beds and have to lie in them. I'm right aren't I? It's not the long gone Church's fault they perished. The Church, called to be a beacon and lights in the worst of circumstances, is not going to have to go through any of it.

Sarcasm I think Bill.

I think the point is that when the going gets tough the Church will be needed- not whisked away.

I think for the most part the Church has sought to carry out the Great Commission over the centuries. A real effort has been made to evangelize the lost. The Church's treatment of the Jews has been sorely lacking at times.

Yet today the pre-trib teaching has brought something new and unheard of in church history. The notion is that when the Church makes a early exit that millions of unsuspecting people will die without God and it will just be collateral damage that can't be avoided. And Israel whom they proclaim to love will have to face the music on their own when they experience the wrath of Antichrist and tbe hostility of the nations.

"Terrified parents on airplanes will scream, "My babies, my babies!" Teddy bears and diapers are all that will be left on the seats. All children under age twelve disappear. Babies are sucked out of pregnant women's wombs as stupifed fathers watch ultrasound machines go blank. Planes and cars crash in fireballs. Media reports come in from around the country: "Trains were involved in head-ons with lots of death." God had Raptured the engineers before they could apply the brakes."

And if you are undergoing open heart surgery or surgery of some type and you are open if the surgeon is a Christian his surgical tools drop into you or to the floor and you are left high and dry. But you had adequate warning as all the other dead that a rapture was coming. It's not the long gone Church's fault you perished. It's just unavoidable collateral damage. And we were as committed as could be to the Jews and Israel but we never had any intention of being around during their time of deepest trouble. It's too bad many of them crashed into buildings or got caught in cars whose driver was raptured. They perished when Christ came
for us and gave us His promised early exit but fair warning was given to all beforehand you know.

Maybe sarcasm is wrong but it's hard to not be a little sarcastic toward such comic book fantasies that major portions of the Church have accepted as orthodox doctrine.

Good morning David, I'm trying to follow you the best I can,because I want to understand your message here. David, Here's my thought on your message "if" I'm understanding you correctly. I would find it hard to believe with today's modern technologies, that "most" everyone has heard the name Jesus Christ, and had the opportunity to learn about him, and make the decision to invite him into their lives.

I don't believe for one second, that the folks on this earth, that have "never" heard the name Jesus Christ are going to anywhere but Heaven. Although many people may not know the full revelation of the gospel, none of us are totally ignorant of him. Personally I feel since the creation of the world, God's invisible qualities, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, and hopefully has been understood from what has been made. Will God send people to hell who have never heard of Jesus? In my opinion, I don't think He would ever punish people for rejecting Jesus if they’ve never heard of Jesus.

Will the people that have only just heard the name Jesus Christ, but really don't know anything about him or the Gospel go to Heaven? I don't know, but I'm sure his grace will carry to their death bed, and God will make that decision.

As for all the pre-trib or post-trib thinking/debates, I don't worry about that, if I die in all the havoc of the pre-trib, I know where my next destination is. Personally, I feel that if most folks that have invited Christ into their lives, and know their destination, had the opportunity to get a peek into Heaven today, most would probably check out today.

You seem to advocate a type of universal salvation here but it is not the subject of this thread and might be sorted out
elsewhere or in another thread. The subject is revival at the end of the age and the bottom line desire of why we may want it. And is the notion that millions of unsaved will die as unavoidable collateral damage at a pre-tribulation rapture a proper and true scriptural view? If as you say I od will not condemn anyone who has not heard the gospel would He in turn cause the death of unsaved millions at a early exit rapture?

You may want to check out today but so what? I understand that homesickness but the real question would seem to be outside of our own natural death when is God's appointed time of resurrection?

Sorry David, please don't be to hard on me, or stereotype me with others here, I'm not a Bible scholar, or the sharpest knife in the drawer, and I do have some difficulties understanding some things, so I'll move on, and just read. Hopefully by just reading I'll gain a better understanding of this thread. Have a wonderful day.
Brother Bill

Well bro I apologize if I seem hard. No problem with your comments and questions. I guess I suffer from a certain lack of patience at this point with large and glaring questions surrounding the pre-trib view which the advocates of this view seem very hesitant to address.

Thanks for being interested.

Hello
As i prayed about this post.. My heart I believe is seeing that we all have a choice here.. We can be like Joshua and Caleb and focus on the LORD and see that HE can and will kill all the giants and take the land He has for us.. or we can focus on the grasshoppers and not enter our promised land..

Nos 13:
25 Forty days later, they came back from exploring the land. 26 They came back to Moses, Aaron, and the whole community of Israel at Kadesh in the Desert of Paran. They gave their report and showed them the fruit from the land.

27 This is what they reported to Moses: "We went to the land where you sent us. It really is a land flowing with milk and honey. Here’s some of its fruit. 28 But the people who live there are strong, and the cities have walls and are very large. We even saw the descendants of Anak there. 29 The Amalekites live in the Negev. The Hittites, Jebusites, and Amorites live in the mountain region. And the Canaanites live along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea and all along the Jordan River.”

30 Caleb told the people to be quiet and listen to Moses. Caleb said, "Let’s go now and take possession of the land. We should be more than able to conquer it.”

31 But the men who had gone with him said, "We can’t attack those people! They’re too strong for us!” 32 So they began to spread lies among the Israelites about the land they had explored. They said, "The land we explored is one that devours those who live there. All the people we saw there are very tall. 33 We saw Nephilim there. (The descendants of Anak are Nephilim.) We felt as small as grasshoppers, and that’s how we must have looked to them.”

I believe in GODs power and sound mind we can occupy whatever land He puts in front of us.. We have not been given the spirit of Fear but power love and sound mind.. May we all have the spirit of power love and sound mind and choose to Obey and live by FAITH and not by what we see. in JESUS name.

The scriptures I made reference to are all in close time proximity to the resurrection of the dead which I assume is at the end of this present evil age when Christ returns. I know you won't consider this bro or either maybe you spiritualize the literal descriptions of the resurrection.

The phenomena of Yahweh visually appearing with a literal cloud originates in the Penateuch. The book of Exodus relates multiple accounts of the LORD's glory cloud appearing to Moses and the Israelites. His divine presence descended in a thick cloud of darkness ("the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night") to protect and accompany the Israelites at the Red Sea (Ex 13:21-22; 14:19-20,24; Sam 22:10). The cloud visually appeared atop Mount Sinai, led the Israelites through their desert journeys and "dwelt among them" in the tabernacle (Ex19:9,11; 20;21; 24:15-18; 33:2,9-10; 34:5; Num 11:25; Deut 33:2). The cloud also filled the First Temple at its dedication by King Solomon (I Kings 8:11-13).

These were not metaphors. They actually saw the presence of God in literal visible clouds. Christ is very able to return on visible clouds of glory. At the end of this present evil age AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days (Matt 24:39-31).