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Does all praise and worship music in church glorify God or does it glorify men

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deltadom Mar 22, 2019

Micah 6
1 Hear ye now what the LORD saith; Arise, contend thou before the mountains, and let the hills hear thy voice. note

2 Hear ye, O mountains, the LORD'S controversy, and ye strong foundations of the earth: for the LORD hath a controversy with his people, and he will plead with Israel.

3 O my people, what have I done unto thee? and wherein have I wearied thee? testify against me.

4 For I brought thee up out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed thee out of the house of servants; and I sent before thee Moses, Aaron, and Miriam.

5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old? note

7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? note

8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Does all worship music in church actually glorify men or does it glorify God .
People can praise and worship all they like but unless they are worshipping the god of the Bible and the Jesus of the scriptures it is blatent idolatry

Worship should be from the heart and singing words that we do not do and have no relevance to us.

Great theology is good but if it is not personal .

My problem is that you have heresy being spread through worship music such as through bethel or elevation church and that does not glorify God , it glorifys them but does not glorify God as most of the worship music is so self centred .

Where men get the glory god does not .

I could also say that about many of the sermons are the sermons about the preacher or are they about Jesus or even the Bible

As the Bible is the most unread book in our churches it may be the bestselling book but it is just like Stephen hawkings book people buy the book because they want to be seen as popular but have no familiarity with it

Z
ZodiacGorill Jun 6, 2019

modern praise and worship is christian karoke hour and has homosexual influence.

D
deltadom Jun 7, 2019

I have been so annoyed with the modern worship music as I used to work in the Christian bookshop and with Hillsong bringing new age and evolutionary theology to songs and bethel and things like elevation worship
I love praise and worship music but the influx of the new age has been monumental to worship songs
As worship song do bring theology , the ironic thing is that some of these songs are not theologically bad

The thing is most churches are not rated on there sermon but on there worship

I have been to worship places where the worship leader is taught how to manipulate the audience through worship

T
TMK Jun 7, 2019

I only know one Elevation worship song (we sing it in my pretty conservative Baptist Church- lyrics below) so can you provide an example of heresy and new age influence in their songs? I am curious. It is helpful when you make such statements that you could at least name the song or provide the lyrics so we can see for ourselves.

””””””””-
Unstoppable God

Heaven thundered
And the world was born
Life begins and ends in the dust You formed
Faith commanded
And the mountains moved
Fear is losing ground, to our hope in You
Unstoppable God
Let Your glory go on and on
Impossible things
In Your name, they shall be done
Freedom conquered
All our chains undone
Sin defeated, Jesus has overcome
Mercy triumphed
When the third day dawned
Darkness was denied, when the stone was gone
Oh, unstoppable God
Let Your glory go on and on
Impossible things
In Your name, they shall be done
Unstoppable God
Let Your glory go on and on
Impossible things
In Your name, they shall be done
Nothing shall be impossible
Your kingdom reigns unstoppable
We'll shout Your praise forevermore
Jesus our God unstoppable
Nothing shall be impossible
Your kingdom reigns unstoppable
We'll shout Your praise forevermore
Jesus our God unstoppable (c'mon)
Nothing shall be impossible
Your kingdom reigns unstoppable
We'll shout Your praise forevermore
Jesus our God unstoppable
Nothing shall be impossible
Your kingdom reigns unstoppable
We'll shout Your praise forevermore
Jesus our God unstoppable
Ohh, ohh-ohh, ohh
Unstoppable God
Let Your glory go on and on
Impossible things
In Your name, they shall be done (let's go)
Unstoppable God
Let Your glory go on and on
Impossible things
In Your name, they shall be done

G
Gloryandgrace Jun 7, 2019


Well, add the word 'all' to the question and it automatically requires a NO answer; some might say the question poisons the response.

Add the name of the band in a critical way and you have a classical ad-hom argument against the song.

other than illogical its just plain unfair to the bands.

This is not about logic or whether one band is putting out good or bad songs its about being reasonable and fair in the question...otherwise the broad-brushing of the songs or bands displays more of a personal bias than a question of orthodoxy.

D
deltadom Jun 7, 2019

If you want examples i can give you examples

VERSE 1
God of creation
There at the start
Before the beginning of time
With no point of reference
You spoke to the dark
And fleshed out the wonder of light

CHORUS 1
And as You speak
A hundred billion galaxies are born
In the vapour of Your breath the planets form
If the stars were made to worship so will I
I can see Your heart in everything You’ve made
Every burning star
A signal fire of grace
If creation sings Your praises so will I

VERSE 2
God of Your promise
You don’t speak in vain
No syllable empty or void
For once You have spoken
All nature and science
Follow the sound of Your voice

CHORUS 2
And as You speak
A hundred billion creatures catch Your breath
Evolving in pursuit of what You said
If it all reveals Your nature so will I
I can see Your heart in everything You say
Every painted sky
A canvas of Your grace
If creation still obeys You so will I

This song and I can give you lots of others

Why we live in an age where these bands make multi millions of dollars

G
Gloryandgrace Jun 7, 2019

Hi Dom: are you stumbling on "evolving in pursuit"?

Best thing is to inquire into the authors intent of that verse...otherwise the whole song is full of poetic license

fleshed out light?
stars worship?
seeing God's heart?
creation singing?
nature and science follow?
creation obeying?

Dom, poetic license is not heresy.

T
TMK Jun 7, 2019

I agree evolving would be problematic if the author meant evolution of species. The rest sounds like Psalms or parts of Job to me.

Dom- What band sings this song?

S
savannah Jun 8, 2019

Q. Does all praise and worship music in church glorify God or does it glorify men

A. My opinionated answer is that not all, but most, praise and worship music in church glorifies men not God.

Some may find the following, of some help;

"What is Worship?" -

https://youtu.be/EJbhZF9e7lY


J
Jeremy221 Jun 8, 2019

That is sung by Hillsong. It’s called "So Will I (100 Billion x)”. I’ve seen the video on YouTube serval times and it sounds good at first. But it seemed off as though the writer has not actually begun worshipping or obeying God. It is a song of responding to peer pressure from your literal environment and having the desire to obey God but not having begun. In that way it’s similar to "The Heart of Worship” where those singing never actually return to worshipping in Spirit and Truth because they are perpetually returning.

It is telling the worship leaders often add at the conclusion of the song that the congregation should NOW worship which means the singing of the song itself was not worship. This is vitally important because it means they were singing for their own cathartic satisfaction.

If you want to see another clear example of this mixed up thinking examine the song New Wine, also by Hillsong. It’s another one that sounds good on the surface.

Link: So Will I (100 Billion x): https://youtu.be/GfVd5x9W1Xc
New Wine: https://youtu.be/1ozGKlOzEVc

J
JFW Jun 8, 2019

brother Dominic,

A couple of weeks ago, while singing a very popular song at church (not going to name the song- but have sang it many many times over the past few years) there was somewhat of a "matrix” moment where the Lord broke into my "worship” stopping it in its tracks and directing my attention to the words themselves, more specifically asking me what was the subject and object of the sentences being sung... to my discredit it took 3 full pages/stanzas and allot of grace before my eyes could see it- tho when it did come into focus, it was quite disturbing because the song was all about us!!
To my dismay, standing there shocked and speechless, looking around finding everyone singing, worshipping, arms raised, big smiles it became clearer and ever more disturbing.... how? How could we have all missed this for so long ? How could we have made ourselves the subject and object of our worship and God only the means and no one noticed or said anything??? How could we be sooo deceived??? How did we get here???
As all these (and more) questions are swirling through my mind, I heard the Lord speak as clear as I’ve ever heard Him....
He said "Narcissistic Christianity”
To say I was stunned would be a gross understatement, it was shocking, saddening, scary, and yet revealing.... it left me in awe of how oblivious we are to our own absurdity and just how patient He is, not wanting any to perish but all to come unto repentance-
This experience has left no small impression, especially coming in a season of discipline which I have only experienced once before (at conversion).

After telling my wife what had just happened, she searched for that particular phrase during the break with no matching results-
After inquiring of the Lord what that phrase meant, an image appeared in my mind of a big shinny silver modern electric bullet train, a (phallic) tribute to mans virility, packed full of people and goods speeding hurriedly past a loading/docking station and headed in the other direction a lone donkey with a lone passenger both with their head tilted slightly downwards traveling at a donkeys pace-
After meditating on this, it occurred to me that the two are opposed to each other in that tho they are both modes of travel (vehicles) where one is the result of mans independence,... designed and built by him to meet his needs in the fashion and time of his choosing. This is the result of man placing himself above his creator, no longer content to allow his old fashioned, outdated daddy the pleasure of providing for and directing the steps of life in faithful love... rather he turned to another who had seduced him by making him the object and subject and his needs the purpose of all fulfillment. This resulted in an intoxicating effect of pursuing the next level of attainment,...of fulfillment,... requiring a mad rush of energy towards an unreachable destination of immortality and meaning- all while justifying itself as a means to an ends tho never questioning the ends - only citing the contrivance of grandeur as suitable experience itself. Luxury and the endless pursuit of its promises unfulfilled. Vanity !

While the other is clearly one whom is content, not to seek the pleasure of self but of his Father,... believing in his Father’s benevolence. Trusting and obeying his Fathers commands even tho they lead him into deep mortifications,... not seeking the fulfillment that comes from fellowship with the world and its goods but is satisfied by his Fathers watch, his Fathers word directing his steps amidst all the ridicule, humiliation and defeat the world’s wisdom can muster to throw at him, seeking to turn him from the narrow path of his Fathers word to the broad way of the world. Yet he has to agenda of his own so he doesn’t need to travel quickly to arrive at some special place at some specific time, he has no plans to build a life of his own apart from his Father so he has no need to labor and toil sacrificing to those ends, he has no need to lie to himself to justify his actions deceiving himself as actions are not his own. He has no need to learn songs but only sings the songs his Father places in his heart, the world doesn’t know these songs nor do they their object but this doesn’t make the sound any less pleasing to the author and finisher :)

R
rufnrust Jun 8, 2019

I hope it is safe to point out that there are several possible categories our songs can fall into.
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your hearts to the Lord.

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

I have always taught the children I work with that there are songs of intimate worship where we address the Lord personally and adore Him. Then songs of testimony where we declare to the heavens and the earth what the Lord has done for us. (honoring the Lord through this). Then there are songs of declaration where we declare to the heavens and the earth (this means EVERYBODY) that our God is Awesome King etc... Then songs of thanks...

From what I have read so far it looks like 'It is well with my soul' could be in trouble for being to much about us.

Rusty

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deltadom Jun 8, 2019

How do we know that some modern worships songs are worshiping the Jesus of the bible as they are so vague or the God of the bible

T
TMK Jun 8, 2019

I guess you could take the songwriters at their word. Who do you think their songs are about- buddha?

I agree with ruf- "It is well with my soul” is awfully self centered. There are a lot of "I’s” and "me’s” in Amazing Grace as well.

D
deltadom Jun 9, 2019

Joel Houston who wrote the song believes in evolution
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/hillsongs-joel-houston-clarifies-views-on-evolution-after-so-will-i-lyrics-spark-debate/129864.htm

The thing is when we talk about something like amazing grace

We have verses such I once was lost but now I see

But there are some modern songs that there is no way to verify as people do not use the bible for inspiration.

It would be great if songs were biblically based but they are not worship songs.


Romans 1
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,

2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)

3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: note

5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: note

6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; note

10 Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you.

11 For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established;

12 That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me. note

13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles. note

14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.

15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. note

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: note

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. note

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; note note

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: note

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. note

Matt 24
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

What worries is me the most about worship is that most of the false doctrines such as the kenotic Christ and other doctrines from places such as bethel , elevation church and others is spread through osmosis through there music

Ezekiel 28
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. note note note

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more

The thing is the devil was the worship leader in heaven

I am also against singing dead hymns that are dead and purely on the lyrics

It is really ironic that Christian music used to be alot more creative as there used to be so many different instruments it seems limited to things to just a guitar, bass , drums and piano.

If I cannot tell the difference between a worldly song and a worship song. What is the point ?
When we are worshiping , how do know we are worshiping the Jesus of the scriptures and that it is true Christology and it is not idolatry.

I would also agree that worship music is narsacisstic but the bible predicts that
Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, note

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. note note

T
TMK Jun 9, 2019

He says that God created man out of the dust; he seems to believe in natural selection in species which is undeniable but stops short of espousing macroevolution (one species turning into another).

There are millions of Christians who believe just like him and such belief does not disqualify him from writing a worship song.

Should Calvinists listen to worship songs written by Wesley? Should non-calvinists listen to songs written by Calvinists? The answer is obvious.

The popular worship chorus "They Will know We are Christians by our Love" was penned by a Roman Catholic priest during the hippie movement in the 60s. Should we sing it?

S
savannah Jun 9, 2019

Q. Does all praise and worship music in church glorify God or does it glorify men?

A. https://youtu.be/IpLvk_0-PAc

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