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Three Levels of Spiritual Development by Zac Poonen

sermonindex Apr 19, 2019

In John's gospel, Jesus used the symbol of water to describe three levels of spiritual development possible through the Holy Spirit:

Level 1:
In John 3:5, He spoke of being "born of water and the Spirit". This is "the cup of salvation" (Psa.116:13), with which we begin our Christian lives. With this cup of water, we are cleansed and brought into God's kingdom as His children.

Level 2:
In John 4:14, Jesus went further and spoke of that cup becoming "a well (spring) of water". This is a deeper experience of the Holy Spirit, where all our inner longings are met by Him, so that we live in perpetual victory and joy, lacking nothing. A man who has a well in his own compound is not dependent on the city corporation's water supply. No outsider can turn off his water supply, for he has the source of water within his own compound. This is how it is with the Christian who has found the secret of perpetual abundance in Christ. No-one outside of him can cut off his supply of joy or peace or victory (John. 16:22).

Level 3:
In John 7:38, Jesus went still further and said that the well would now become a river, and many rivers, flowing out of the believer. This is a picture of overflowing abundance. Such a believer is able to quench the thirst of many needy people around him. Whereas a well satisfies only our own longings, rivers of living water make us a blessing to many people, wherever we go.

The blessing with which God blessed Abraham was, "I will bless you....and in you ALL THE FAMILIES of the earth shall be blessed" (Gen.12:2-3). This is the blessing that can now be ours through the Holy Spirit (Gal.3:14). When God blesses us to the point of rivers flowing out of us, many families in many parts of the country and even in the whole world can be blessed through us.

The good news of the gospel is that we can be saved from sin and be a blessing to others. We can now have rivers of living water flowing out through us constantly, and be a blessing to every family that we meet. We can be merciful to others just as God has been merciful to us. We can release others just as God has released us. We can bless others just as God has blessed us. We can give freely to others just as God has freely given to us. We can be large-hearted to others just as God has been to us.

A.W. Tozer in his article Five Decisions for Spiritual Power says: "If you are really serious about your spiritual development - the gaining of new joy, new power and new life - then you should make certain decisions in your heart concerning your life, and proceed to keep them.

"One decision is: Never pass on anything about anybody else that will hurt him”.

"'Love covers a multitude of sins' (1 Pet.4:8). The talebearer has no place in God's favour. If you know something that would hinder or hurt the reputation of one of God's children, bury it forever. Let God take care of it. 'With what judgment you judge, you will be judged' (Matt.7:2)."

If you want God to be good to you, you must be good to His children. The rules of our Father's table demand that you don't tell stories about others who are sitting around that same table with you, no matter what their denomination, their nationality or their background." (From the book THE BEAUTY OF HOLINESS).

It will be a good thing if all of us make that decision today - never to pass on anything about another that will hurt him or his reputation - and keep that decision, not just for the rest of this year but for the rest of our lives. Those who have lived by that decision in past years have found that when they discarded the worthless from their daily conversation, and spoke only what was edifying and profitable, God in turn, fulfilled His promise, and made them His spokesmen - His mouth (Jer.15:19).

D
docs Apr 19, 2019

Thank you.

sermonindex Apr 19, 2019

Zac Poonen wrote: "It will be a good thing if all of us make that decision today - never to pass on anything about another that will hurt him or his reputation - and keep that decision, not just for the rest of this year but for the rest of our lives."

Sounds good...but that isn't the Biblical model. Everyone gets outed in the Scriptures, from Eve's gullibility and Adam's willful sin, down to Paul and Barnabas' heated parting of ways over Mark's place in the ministry to John bowing to an angel after receiving such incredible Revelation, and being rebuked for it. Demas, Nicolaeus, Alexander the coppersmith, Hymenaeus, and so many others are called out for error. Only our Lord Jesus is above reproach. Yes, there are Biblical protocols for dealing with a brother gone astray, as we all know, but the Word does NOT say what Zac Poonen or even Tozer alleged.

To be truly candid, the religious professionals get uneasy if names are named BECAUSE IT IS BAD FOR BUSINESS and it may jeopardize their income and "beloved" status. When Stephen spoke the truth, his face shining like an angel, the religious crowd went berserk after his stinging censure and stoned him to death...and who will deny that he was in the perfect will of God in that moment? Our Lord Jesus stood to His feet to receive this dear saint after that blistering PUBLIC REBUKE of the Jewish prelates in Acts 7.

B. H. Clendennen, a fine Pentecostal preacher, once said, "Christianity has largely lost its ability to CONFRONT."

Selah.

A
AbideinHim Apr 19, 2019

Brother,

I agree with what Zac Poonen said, and yes he does have the Word of God to back him up, because God hates gossip and slander.

"These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren." ( Proverbds 6:16-19).


God hates it when discord is sown upon brothers in the Lord. There is a correct biblical protocol to follow when brothers are in error, but it not to hurt him, or tear him down. The Word tells us that we are to speak the truth in love. Brothers only want to hurt other brothers because they themselves are wounded, and often there is a root of bitterness that has not been dealt with. I believe that this was demonstrated on this forum recently. It is much different in the way that we would deal with a false prophet or teacher, who should be confronted, and his error exposed.

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers." (Ephesians 4:29).

"To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, [but] gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men." (Titus 3:2).

"The words of a talebearer [are] as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly."(Proverbs 18:18)

"A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends." (Proverbs 16:28).

"He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth [very] friends." (Proverbs 17:19")

D
docs Apr 19, 2019

Deleted.

sermonindex Apr 19, 2019

I neither said nor suggested that, David, and obviously agree with all of the verses regarding discreet behavior and not engendering strife, but there is a time & a season for everything, as Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes. I'm not talking about betraying a trust, but there are times to speak out (which put many of the saints of old in peril of their lives).

John the Baptist publicly told Herod the tetrarch that it was not lawful for him to have his brother's wife. Gutsy move, and it cost him his freedom and ultimately his life.

D
docs Apr 19, 2019

I'll delete it.

Blessings. Have a good Easter or resurrection day

sermonindex Apr 20, 2019

You didn't say anything inappropriate, David. Yes, Happy Resurrection Day to you, too!

One more thought on this topic...feel free to agree or disagree, standing upon the Word in agape love, of course.

Not every statement that one makes to another about an evil saying or deed perpetrated by a third party qualifies as gossip. Case in point: our Lord Jesus told the parable of a man who was forgiven a great debt by a king, but the man proceeded to unmercifully demand payment for a much smaller debt by his fellow man. We know the conclusion of the matter, but I want to draw attention to Matthew 18:31: "So when his fellow servants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done." This was not idle gossip, yet they did the very thing Zac Poonen was advising Christians not to do.

D
docs Apr 20, 2019

No problem. Thank you for your thoughts.

Also, I need prayer tonight from about 8 until 10 if you have a chance. I hope I haven't bitten off more than I can chew. It will be a adventure of sorts.

sermonindex Apr 20, 2019

Will do. Hopefully others will see this in time & pray, too.

D
docs Apr 20, 2019

Thank you.

I'll try and get back on this. I'm a little nervous now. It's a spiritual endeavor.

sermonindex Apr 20, 2019

Zac Poonen wrote: "It will be a good thing if all of us make that decision today - never to pass on anything about another that will hurt him or his reputation - and keep that decision, not just for the rest of this year but for the rest of our lives."

Brother,

I believe it is clear in his article he is referencing to the children of God and not a clear false teacher. The sin of speaking against others we do not agree with in side issues really has become epedemic in the body of Christ.

I wrote about this in a short free ebook called: Disagreements in Christian Life
https://www.amazon.com/Disagreements-Christian-Life-Greg-Gordon-ebook/dp/B07MPQL9CX/

sermonindex Apr 20, 2019

Greg, Zac Poonen has given innumerable fine messages. I enjoy his teaching.

What gives me such a knee jerk reaction isn't Poonen himself, but his statement about keeping silent. While I agree that gossip and slander are to be avoided, I have run into an overwhelming number of Christians who are in, or who have come out of, churches with abusive leadership. The problem is epidemic. If I didn't need an income I could spend the rest of my life ministering to these shattered hearts. The cycle of abuse and being coerced into silence "or else" is astonishing.

I really believe a huge part of the problem is the format of the contemporary church as a BUSINESS. If we met in homes, if pastors & leadership had day jobs, if we went from home to home in our meetings I believe the health & transparency of the body of believers would be so much greater. Many of those who have suffered the most whom I have prayed for/with are church EMPLOYEES.

Kind regards in Christ Jesus,
Alec

A
AbideinHim Apr 20, 2019

Brother Alec,

I understand what you are saying, and I have also witnessed abusive leadership in the church, and I do not remain silent about it. I would encourage any child of God that is in such a church where the pastor is abusive and controlling to come out of that church. I would not hesitate to tell a brother or sister that is in a church where they are not getting fed the pure Word of God to come out of such a church.

I believe that what Zac Poonen is saying is to not be so quick to criticize a true pastor or minister that has made some mistake or who has blind spots in certain areas, but to pray for them, and if the Lord leads you to go to them privately with your concerns.

S
Sree Apr 21, 2019

All this teaching about standing for your rights against an abusive Church leadership, is from the Devil. There is no spirit of Christ is such a belief.

In my Church I have witnessed a situation. An old man who is very knowledgeable in the Bible started attending our fellowship. In our Church we encourage all to Prophesy after the main message but with a time limit. This particular old guy started sharing for 20 mins. Hence one of the brothers leading the fellowship asked him not to speak more than 5 mins and also to speak in line with the main message. Now this old guy could not take this advice and took it offensive. He went behind the back of this brother and spread gossips against him. He also challenged church leadership, he was of the belief that Church should be lead by its self (kind of democracy pattern). It resulted in so much confusions to the point of Church being split. But the Lord was merciful and prevented a split and this old man left out of frustration!

The point here is there is no proper definition of abusive leadership. Like this old man, anyone can take a simple disciple as abusive. Where do you draw the line?

Here is the Biblical way to lead with situations,
1. If the Church has an Apostle then write to him about the situation of leadership and why you find them abusive. Every Church should have an Apostle who should appoint leaders. This is a Biblical pattern for any Church, but unfortunately most Churches do not have such a pattern.
In Corinthians, a Sister wrote to Paul about the condition of the Church and that is what resulted in the letter of 1 Corinthians! So this is the perfect Biblical way to handle this situation.

2. If there is no Apostle and you are sure the Church is under the authority of Jesus then trust in Jesus and humble yourself under the leadership whom you consider abusive. If Jesus is really present in the Church then he will expose the leadership of their mistakes. Apostle Paul says Phil 3:15 - Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you;

So trust in God to reveal the unchristlike attitude that the leadership has. I am not writing anything that I have not practiced. I have humbled myself trusting in God so many times and in all the case the Lord took the side of the humble.

3. Now if the Church does not have an Apostle and you are not sure whether Jesus is present in the Church then why do you even want to be in such a Church? In stead standing for your rights, leave the Church. This is what I tell the people visiting our Church, if they are not sure that Christ is in our midst then do not meet with us.

sermonindex Apr 22, 2019

How does one begin to even answer you, Sree? You come into a discussion and (figuratively) stand on a soapbox and start giving a "sermon" devoid of any compassion & completely misunderstanding the previous dialogue, pronouncing judgments & enumerating your solutions. O, thank you, high & exalted Sree, for your incredible insights! How did I ever make it through over 50 years of terrestrial life without you?

"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceits." I have opted for the latter.

S
Sree Apr 23, 2019

Alec, did I ever refer to you in my post? My post was against the view that one has to stand for their rights, which is from world and not from Jesus. If you believe in such a worldly view then my post is for you. If I wanted to respond to you, I would have quoted anything from your past post. I am good enough with computers to do so. But I never quoted anything from your post. Which means I was not even responding to any of your views. If you still think that I was referring to you then you should be in some kind of imaginary world where everyone is attacking you!

I have put clear scriptures and personal experience to support my view. I am not sure which one has offended you. If you are offended at my view then you are only offended at scripture. I understand that not everyone is logically minded and are not scripturally strong, but it is not acceptable to use abusive language to cover ones handicap.

You have called me a fool for no reason here. I do not believe a born again Christian will post like this in a public forum to someone who is not even responding to you. I hope you will judge yourself and set things right in your life before it gets too late. I am sorry I cannot even refer to you as a brother.

sermonindex Apr 23, 2019

SREE,

I have seen you fly off the handle with sweeping statements, blanket judgments, & wild, presumptuous conclusions not only here in this thread, but in many others on this forum. If it will help you to better understand your own folly I can cut and paste endless quotes of yours from other threads demonstrating this.

Most people on the Sermon Index forum are biblically literate, having read everything from Genesis to Revelation many, many times and with much scrutiny, yet there are some who feel that they must preach sermons to others here, endlessly quoting whole passages of Scripture. This often comes across as obnoxious and self-righteous. How about "see Psalm 119"-----you (plural) don't have to copy and paste the ENTIRE psalm!

So many here like to play amateur preacher....and how many have ever been allowed to speak from the pulpit in their home church? That should tell you something.

If one message of rebuke is enough for you to not call me "brother," then your discernment is quite lacking...little brother!

I bear you no malice.

sermonindex Apr 23, 2019

So many here like to play amateur preacher....and how many have ever been allowed to speak from the pulpit in their home church? That should tell you something.

Brother,

Please stop speaking in this way to another brother, we are not to critique and judge each others character and walk with the Lord on the forums. I personally from my bible reading (from genesis to revelation MANY times) see truth in what Sree is sharing and there are definetly points to ponder and take aways.

If there is something that convicts, challenges or upsets you then that is fine but please do not attack the character of another to dismiss their post.

I have personally known Sree and sat beside him in church gatherings. He is an excellent brother who loves the Lord.

We are all not perfect in how we share but it is good that the body of Christ shares.

sermonindex Apr 23, 2019

I am not convicted, challenged, or upset by any of this, but rather rolling my eyes at the incredible waste of time and endless verbiage here.

Like another fellow recently wrote, please remove my membership from the forum.

This discussion is locked.

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